World tilting remains an issue in 2.5.5

[RudderButt]

To whom it may concern,

 

The perception that the world is tilting toward or away from the pilot relative to the attitude of the aircraft on the ground still remains an issue in 2.5.5. For owners of the P-51 the most obvious example of this can be seen when sitting on the ramp in the instant action mission "Cold Start Vaziani." If you look out over your right wing the fence line runs down and away from you, towards the front of the aircraft. The slope is so severe that the vehicle that is parked next to you might roll away if the parking brake weren't applied! There are two threads detailing this problem, one that seems to have little if any applicability to VR and the other little applicability to the state of VR as it exists in DCS in 2.5.5.

 

They can be found here and here.

 

In my time experimenting, the only values inside snapviews.lua that result in any change to the pilot's perspective are:

 

x_trans

y_trans

z_trans

 

None of which impact the sight picture through the pitch axis. They adjust the view forward and aft, left and right, and up and down (not in that order, I can't remember which does which).

 

I look forward to soliciting feedback from both fellow VR pilots and ED to get this issue resolved!

 

Thank you!

Edited December 29, 2019 by RudderButt

[RudderButt]

A quick update on my findings. I have only ever played DCS in VR so I decided to load up the same mission on my monitor and I was astonished to find that the view is much the same as in VR. I have attached a screenshot to this post to illustrate how severe the tilt is. I have tested other modules as well but the warbirds are by far the worst offenders in this regard. As others have speculated in one of the threads I linked to in my first post, it seems to have to do with the orientation of the aircraft relative to how it sits on the ground and possibly to do with its orientation inside whatever software the 3d asset was modeled in.

 

 

 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I find myself at a loss.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

Isn’t that just because the 51 is a tail dragger? Not trying to be a smart a$$, thats what it looks like to me.

Regards!

[RudderButt]

No offense taken. :thumbup: I appreciate the reply! But if you have an office chair that leans back or a recliner, try leaning back as far as you can and look to your right and see if it looks like the whole world leaned with you! Also not be trying to be a smart a$$ :D Our eyes don't perceive a gradient in a landscape just because we are leaned back.

[Goblin]

I was intrigued by this thread, so I had to check.

Here’s how it looks in my Rift S. Picture taken through the VR Lens.

[RudderButt]

Thank you very much for taking the time to investigate my problem! It looks as though your image is on Normandy so I decided I would check to see if the map could be having any impact on the perception of the horizon. Unfortunately the phenomenon remains. I took a screenshot inside the Tomcat to illustrate the difference. The most telling difference is the sky is a perfect rectangle in the Tomcat screenshot whereas the sky in the Mustang screenshot recedes to the left. Again, the truck looks as though it might roll away!

 

 

I also included a screen grab from a flight chops video that I think demonstrates pretty clearly that the pilot's line of sight remains fairly parallel to the ground in a taildragger despite the attitude of the aircraft.

Edited January 3, 2020 by RudderButt

[Goblin]

the pilot's line of sight remains fairly parallel to the ground in a taildragger despite the attitude of the aircraft.

 

Of course...

You will always level your head with gravity, unless you lean back on purpose.

It’s a limitation of the viewing reference system of the sim. The VR reference system only picks up the angle of your head, not your torso. So if it aligns the view with the horizon, when on ground, you’d be looking down, when in flight.

Try leaning back, when sitting on ground and hit re-center. Now sit up normally. Your view should be aligned with the horizon. After you take off, hit re-center again to align with the aircraft.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Goblin

[RudderButt]

Are you using the "recenter VR headset" found in UI layer to achieve your desired eye point? That's how I set my eye point and for me the only translations of head movement achievable are in the dimensions labeled here as 4, 5, 6, and 9. I cannot get the view to rotate through the pitch axis, label 8, via this means.

[Goblin]

Are you using the "recenter VR headset" found in UI layer

 

Yes.

Which VR headset do you have?

[RudderButt]

Pimax 5k+ but I first observed this phenomenon on my Vive and I don't remember being able to correct for it. I will be RMAing my Pimax soon and therefore using my Vive again for awhile, I can check then. I am running the non-Steam version of DCS but I use SteamVR when running DCS in VR. Considering that you're using a Rift, I wonder if that accounts for the difference in behavior you and I are observing?

[RudderButt]

I recently RMA'd my Pimax and have had the opportunity to test this on my Vive. I can verify that on standalone DCS 2.5.6 with SteamVR I cannot adjust my view through the pitch axis using the Vive. I would like to ask ED, is the ability to do so on the Oculus due to the way DCS World works with Oculus or is it something inherent to Oculus and/or Oculus software? I confess that this problem irks me perhaps more than it should. I don't find it nauseating or disorienting, just immersion breaking. I am tremendously grateful for any and all feedback, thank you!

[Mars Exulte]

It's because the eyepoint reference is from your 3d model pilot, whose reference point is the aircraft. In other words, aircraft tilts back, pilot tilts back, which means YOUR view point (being based on the pilot) also tilts back. In real life you would lean forward and sit up straight (in relation to the horizon, and gravity) or at least tilt your head down to be "level".

 

Any adjustment would have to be situation based, similar to what the F-86 does where the pilot sits up on the ground (to see better for taxiing) then settles back into the cockpit where you can see the gunsight better once in the air. In this case, the pilot would lean forward and sit straighter until the tail lifts off, then he would sit back more.

 

It's not a "bug" persay, and "fixing" it would require writing some code to make the above "correction". While very much doable, it will be such a low priority item I wouldn't expect to see anything done with it anytime soon (if ever). It's just an inherent difference between "video game" vs "real life" that most likely nobody really thought about. I never really noticed it until you guys drew attention to it, but I know what you're talking about now that I'm looking for it.

[RudderButt]

I really appreciate your reply! I'm sorry it took me a few days to get around to saying so, I kinda forgot about the thread for precisely the reason you pointed out "I wouldn't expect to see anything done with it anytime soon (if ever)." Goblin's ability to shift his view in the pitch axis has piqued my curiosity. I wonder if anyone else would feel there was value in being able to shift their view, in any module I mean, in VR or otherwise.

[71st_Mastiff]

I really appreciate your reply! I'm sorry it took me a few days to get around to saying so, I kinda forgot about the thread for precisely the reason you pointed out "I wouldn't expect to see anything done with it anytime soon (if ever)." Goblin's ability to shift his view in the pitch axis has piqued my curiosity. I wonder if anyone else would feel there was value in being able to shift their view, in any module I mean, in VR or otherwise.

 

yes I too have noticed a tilt in the VR headset in DCS , rift CV1.

[RudderButt]

Are you able, like Goblin, to correct for the tilt? I wonder if his ability to do so is related to the Oculus. Would you like to see it corrected if ED were willing to address it? It's nice to know that I am not the only one who sees it but maybe I'm the only one bothered by it!