esequiel Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 On first picture contact are showed not correlated and mixed with the white square. As soon as you switch to TWS mode, contacts become correlated. And i think the colored contact have to disappear from the FCR when they are visible by our radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esequiel Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 here the trackcolor datalink.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YenLin801215 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Have same porblem here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchstick Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'm seeing the same thing as well. It's possible that as with the STT line on the HSD not being shown for ownship lock there's been a change since Wags video but if that is the case a confirmation would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mira73 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Yes, everything looked a little different in the TWS video X-Plane 11 Payware : Aircraft : Boeing 767-300ER, Airbus 319-100, Airbus 350 XWB, Beechcraft King Air 350, Diamond DA-62 Airport : KATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BillyCrusher Posted November 28, 2019 ED Team Share Posted November 28, 2019 Correlation is possible between tracks only. Search contacts aren't tracks so all works as it should there. You see DL/PPLI tracks and non-correlated search contacts. Locklines should be displayed only for wingmen. Ownship doesn't have lockline, it has bugged target circle instead. "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.” ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esequiel Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Sorry but if you go back from TWS to RWS the colored corelated contact stay solid. And if you are in TWS mode, the conctacts should not be displayed in colored format. How can i made a difference between search, track, system, and bugged contact, if i only see a solid triangle ?? From my point of view we should see only square in the FCR when our own radar "see" the contact. EDIT : And sometimes, all icons disappear from the FCR/TWS but are still visible in RWS, but if you TMS-Right multiple times in TWS a contact is finally Bugged... I think there is a surperposition problem with the FCR and the Datalink. Edited November 28, 2019 by esequiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BillyCrusher Posted November 28, 2019 ED Team Share Posted November 28, 2019 Sorry but if you go back from TWS to RWS the colored corelated contact stay solid. It's a bug (already fixed internally). Tracks weren't purged after switching from TWS to RWS. And if you are in TWS mode, the conctacts should not be displayed in colored format. How can i made a difference between search, track, system, and bugged contact, if i only see a solid triangle ?? From my point of view we should see only square in the FCR when our own radar "see" the contact. Search contacts shouldn't be solid, they aren't tracked at all. Correlated targets from own flights and donors should be marked above the symbol (callsign or flight number). Own bugged target marked by circle. Also, AI planes don't have full-modelled systems and they always know who is enemy and who is allied, so in single player mode you get full identification from AI. In MP from other clients you get unknown (white) tracks only. "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.” ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 There is still no difference between a Tracked target and a System target symbology for an aircraft ID'd as hostile though. Makes it impossible to see which targets you are marking for TWS unless you cycle through them with the bug, or you turn off the datalink and get the Unknown symbols back. 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BillyCrusher Posted November 28, 2019 ED Team Share Posted November 28, 2019 When you see filled-in red triangle it's a correlated target, i.e. it's a tank/system track correlated with DL track. It may be bugged/STT locked. When you see unfilled red triangle it's uncorrelated DL track which can't be locked (because it isn't detected by own FCR). If a target is search contact for ownship + DL track you will see unfilled red triangle superimposed with white search contact. Only problem I see that there isn't difference between own FCR tank target and system track. "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.” ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 No clue what you mean by tank target. I understand what you mean with the correlated and uncorrelated targets, that all works fine as far as I can tell. However with a correlated Hostile target in TWS there is no difference between a TWS track file and a not bugged TWS system file. For an Unknown target the progression from search contact-> TWS track file -> TWS System file -> Bugged TWS system file is like this: little white square -> big white square (Full) -> big whtie square (hollow) -> big white square (hollow) with circle around it For a Hostile ID target its: little white square with hollow red triangle -> Full red Triangle -> Full red triangle -> Full red triangle with circle Is there really no symbology difference for a Hostile Track file and System file? Currently its compounded by the fact that you cant designate TWS targets if you have anything bugged as well. 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The best terms to use for your progression would be: search contact > tank track > system track > bug(ged) track. What you're suggesting is that there's no symbology differentiation between tank and system tracks when L16 is involved. I think the answer to that is that L16-onboard correlation can only occur with system tracks (not tank tracks) i.e. tank tracks are not eligible for correlation. One can see in DCS that with only tank tracks with colocated L16 symbols remain separate, e.g. green circle surrounding white tank. When you designate on the tank track with L16 surrounding it becomes system and instantly correlates with L16 into the correlated symbol. Yeah, it's annoying that once you bug in TWS you can't promote/demote tank/system tracks like you should be able to. It's also missing cursor snapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyBoot Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The best terms to use for your progression would be: search contact > tank track > system track > bug(ged) track. What you're suggesting is that there's no symbology differentiation between tank and system tracks when L16 is involved. I think the answer to that is that L16-onboard correlation can only occur with system tracks (not tank tracks) i.e. tank tracks are not eligible for correlation. One can see in DCS that with only tank tracks with colocated L16 symbols remain separate, e.g. green circle surrounding white tank. When you designate on the tank track with L16 surrounding it becomes system and instantly correlates with L16 into the correlated symbol. Yeah, it's annoying that once you bug in TWS you can't promote/demote tank/system tracks like you should be able to. It's also missing cursor snapping. Part of the problem is that there's no change in symbols between tracks you can, and tracks you can't, cycle as the bugged one with TMS right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Wags Posted November 28, 2019 ED Team Share Posted November 28, 2019 The real aircraft has a HOTAS filter option for DL data on the FCR. We will be adding this later, and it will help when using RWS with donor data. Thanks Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchstick Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Should that have been TWS rather than RWS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I see what you mean. I was able to sometimes keep tank tracks from correlating but it was temporary. Indeed if any tank track manages to correlate then it's indistinguishable from a system track that has correlated and yet they behave differently regarding stepping behavior. My estimate is that most likely L16 correlation to tank tracks should never occur. You'd be presented with a L16 symbol around your tank and have to consent to have it merged. Or what may or may not happen in reality is that candidate correlations may trigger automatic promotion to system in order to continue correlation (e.g. hostile automatic promotion might be a good idea, friendly not so much as you might accidentally fire on one). That or there is a genuine symbology distinction between correlated tanks and correlated systems that we isn't modeled yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Still not sure what you are calling a tank track, or where that terminology comes from. But I guess you are calling it what wags refers to in the TWS vid as a Track file. If it is as you say, then the bug isnt that the symbology is missing, just that those are being correlated in the FCR at the moment, and show up as such. 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'll explain. First we turn off MIDS and switch into TWS following 4 targets. We see four tank-type tracks (filled square). These are not steppable. Now we pick two of the four and elevate them to system-type track (hollow square) by cursor over each and TMS forward. These two only will therefore be steppable. Next step is to add the Link 16 layer so turn MIDS on and wait a few seconds as the nearby E-3A lets us know what's what. Now we see the issue. The mixture of types, tank and system tracks, is still present but there's no way to determine that visually. The previous picture of solid and hollow squares is still true functionally but visually both symbols are replaced by the red filled triangle. The following is what happens when TMS right is pressed, the bug cycles only between the two system tracks and does not step to the tank tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultFace Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Yes thats what I've been saying just in different words :D Like I said in the Wags TWS vid they are referred to as Track files. So the question now is: Is this just a limitation of the Block of Viper that we have and the only way around it is the HOTAS shortcut that Wags mentioned or is there some sort of symbology missing to differentiate the Tank tracks from System tracks with L16. Or are the tank tracks just not supposed to be correlated until they are marked as system tracks? 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harker Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 And sometimes, all icons disappear from the FCR/TWS but are still visible in RWS, but if you TMS-Right multiple times in TWS a contact is finally Bugged... Noticed that myself as well. The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esequiel Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 that's the best explaination ever. for me it turn the TWS unusable with the L16 on ... I'll explain. First we turn off MIDS and switch into TWS following 4 targets. We see four tank-type tracks (filled square). These are not steppable. Now we pick two of the four and elevate them to system-type track (hollow square) by cursor over each and TMS forward. These two only will therefore be steppable. Next step is to add the Link 16 layer so turn MIDS on and wait a few seconds as the nearby E-3A lets us know what's what. Now we see the issue. The mixture of types, tank and system tracks, is still present but there's no way to determine that visually. The previous picture of solid and hollow squares is still true functionally but visually both symbols are replaced by the red filled triangle. The following is what happens when TMS right is pressed, the bug cycles only between the two system tracks and does not step to the tank tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antsh Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just bumping this because I have been experiencing this as well. Has this been acknowledged as a bug or WIP, and could it be tagged as such if possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyBoot Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just bumping this because I have been experiencing this as well. Has this been acknowledged as a bug or WIP, and could it be tagged as such if possible? See post from Wags on page 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 This post made so much sense after so much confusion. Thanks for the pictures. I had no idea what was happening. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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