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If we talking about the budget here how overpriced Pimax 5K can fit in this?

Pimax 5K is 700$ just naked HMD without tracking, controllers and audio. When you add cost for that Pimax 5K is over 1100$ with superior FOV but inferior clarity and performances. To reach similar performances to Reverb or even Rift-S Pimax 5K can't do without 2080ti. So Pimax eliminate him self from this.

Only Pimax 8KX can be compared with Reverb in clarity but only if we don't question about price at all with unlimited fond.

 

I wouldn´t totally agree to this. First of all, you always read in the forums, that performance relates to the VR headset, to rate/unrate any VR headset. That is not the case, if you put it this way.

You´ll never read any comment, which states, that 4k Flatscreens are badly rated, because they need more performance of the system to expose their fully potential of graphical brilliance in comparison to full HD flatscreens. Performance depends only on your system and the application you´re running on your visual device.

It´s not, that I wanted to correct you´re statement, as you´re finally right by fact, but not in the way of presentation, I think. The presentation itself then leads to wrong assumptions regarding performance and VR headsets.

 

Now, the P5k has some pretty nice advantages, but the problem with it, is a too blurry image resulting of its panel technology. It could be counteracted by supersampling, but this is an adjustment made by the application or software to enhance any application´s visual quality.

 

The point in comparison to let´s say the HP Reverb is, that the panels are much more smaller in FOV, means the Reverb has got an higher PPI than the P5K, what results in better clarity and less observable blurryness, what then means you don´t have to put higher software adjustments, like supersampling or MSAA to reach the same visual quality on both compared VR headsets, what, if you do, surely results in a higher demand of performance needed for a 180° 4k display than for a 100° 4k display to perceive the same visual quality.

 

It´s a matter of individual choice, perception and individual demand.

 

In my personal opinion, the technolgy of VR headset are still in kind of development and what rejects most people from VR, respectively what needs to be solved by technology to bring VR headsets to an overall valued experience are:

 

1.) eliminate any screendoor effect by high resolution display technology ( resulting in more clarity / less blurryness )

 

2.) reaching a more natural perception in VR by increasing horizontally and vertically field of view / increasing or eliminating the sweet spot of the lenses

 

3.) reaching higher refresh rates/ higher reaction time of the displays/panels to get a more smooth and natural image quality and counteract nausea.

 

What we have today with each VR headset on the market is a trade of between one ore more of these issues, as the technology is not quite there, to solve all of these at once.

 

The demand for performance comes more from the usual habits of a 3D shooter generation, which is blessed by being born lately and not have experienced the time, in which software was way ahead with potential graphical fidelity, than Monitors/flatscreens and CPUs/GPUs could provide to reach this potential. I would say we´re quite in the same situation with VR headsets at this time. We have to deal with trade offs.

 

Which trade off it is, belongs to individual decision, but there´s none VR headsets at present time, which comes without trade offs ( not starting to speak of pricing ).

 

I´m not very much in thinking of the forums as a competition to profile yourself as the greatest supernerd in the forum, so please simply take my post as one personal opinion on the topic only.

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Bloody hell, are we still waiting for the VR optimisation? Unreal.

Can’t t believe there’s no mention of the Pimax 5K plus. Amazing in DCS.

 

Because in every aspect except for FOV it's beaten by the rift-S and to look nearly as good the S, it needs to supersample to nearly 2x.

 

And that's before we even start on the bugs, it's lack of comfort and the fact that pimax as a company is an absolute joke that responds to criticism by making lofty and evading promises followed by absolute silence for months.

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If we talking about the budget here how overpriced Pimax 5K can fit in this?

 

I wouldn´t totally agree to this. ...

 

You miss completely most important part.

 

I never say Pimax is bad just saying it is not worth it for what they provide.

 

Here we talking about compromise between performances and budget

 

And one more thing, 5K don't have 4K display so if I buy Pimax only two models coming in to consideration in first place 8KX and 8K+ no matter on price.

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I’d keep and eye out to see if evga has a black friday sale again this year and pick up the 2080ti black edition. I bought it at non sale price for $999 last year and it really works great (compared to my oc’d 980ti hydrocopper). Otherwise, once the 30 series get released early next year at CES, maybe the 2080ti prices will drop. To be honest turning up all details is even taxing a 2080ti so maybe waiting for a 30 series isn’t a bad idea either.

 

As to vr headsets, I think the only logical answer for now is the reverb. Even with higher pixels of the odyessy+, details on the gauges and dials is hard to read without zooming in. I’ll take slightly less comfortable and superior detail, slightly less color enhancement. But regardless of the weaknesses, the high screen resolution os a must flying sims.


Edited by Rossterman

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Yep, black friday will maybe the day to buy. We’ll see. :D

New system:I9-9900KS, Kingston 64 GB DDR4 3200Mhz, RTX 3080(OC 2070 Mhz), Corsair H150 Pro RGB, Samsung 970 EVO 1 Tb, Scandisk m2 500 MB, 2 x Crucial 1 Tb, T16000M HOTAS, HP Reverb Professional, Corsair 750 Watt.

 

Old system:I7-4770K(OC 4.5Ghz), Kingston 24 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz,MSI RTX 2080(OC 2070 Mhz), 2 * 500 GB SSD, 3,5 TB HDD, 55' Samsung 3d tv, Trackir 5, Logitech HD Cam, T16000M HOTAS. All DCS modules, maps and campaigns:pilotfly:

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You miss completely most important part.

 

I never say Pimax is bad just saying it is not worth it for what they provide.

 

Here we talking about compromise between performances and budget

 

And one more thing, 5K don't have 4K display so if I buy Pimax only two models coming in to consideration in first place 8KX and 8K+ no matter on price.

 

You´re right not to talk about 4k displays with the Pimax5k+. I know, that´s just marketing speech and not a real fact, so my fault taking it into argumentation.

 

Talking about compromise between performance and budget with regard to VR headsets, was exactly the point I wanted to add in the way not to relate the performance/budget question to the VR headsets in the first place, as the headsets technically don´t have any influence on the performance, only on the demand of performance to get good graphical quality.

 

I´ve upgraded some time ago from a 1080 to a 2080TI and the push in performance for DCS made a huge difference between unplayable ( with individual demands ) and well playable with some rare options to increase graphical fidelity.

 

The price for the 2080Ti I would considered very much overpriced. Nvidia seems to follow in the last years a marketing strategy to let the customers pay for FPS instead for hardware.

But looking back into the nvidia series it seems that with the flagship graphic card as an Ti edition, you could always live good for at least 2 generations of Nvidia graphics adapter.

I hope it does not sound like a conspiracy theory, but I think, Nvidia releases every new graphics adapter while having in mind the exact product cycle for it, to sell to the same customer a new graphics adapter, when its product cycle is over.

 

The blackfriday sales is surely a good opptounity to safe some money, but waiting for the next generation for the same product doesn´t make so much sense, as it will place you in front of the same performance/budget question as now - especially for the use of VR and its ongoing development in hard- and software and with this increasing demand for performant graphic adapters.

 

What I would criticise on the Pimax 5k+ are it´s meanwhile (!) poor panels, which tend to create too much shimmering. The Valve Index´panels must be much better at this point, but I can´t go back to any smaller FOV than 160° :D

HTC Vive was overpriced from the beginning and still is.

Oculus did have a change in its marketing as they were bought by facebook and focused on the low end mass market.

I guess the Odyssey+ will be about 299,- $ again on black friday, what is a pretty good deal for entering or upgrading from a CV1 or OG Vive.

HP Reverb must be very good in visual quality - it has its price, but the narrow FOV and small sweetspot surely is a trade off.

 

We don´t know yet much about the new 8KX or 8k+ with regard to performance with DCS. I will post some tests with DCS, when the 8KX arrives, but this happens soonest in February next year.

 

Edit: price always matters


Edited by - Voight -
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We don´t know yet much about the new 8KX or 8k+ with regard to performance with DCS. I will post some tests with DCS, when the 8KX arrives, but this happens soonest in February next year.

 

Basically we got relevant information's to gues what we can expect.

 

8K+ is same performances as 8K or 5K+ with 5k+ clarity and reduced SDE and this minor upgrade you have to pay 100$ more than already overpriced 8K.

 

8KX will be full RGB same as Reverb PD similar as Reverb but little bit lower do to lower utilization of the displays. Pimax lenses not fully covering display.

As in Reverb example better clarity and PPD reducing a need for PD/SS and 8KX will run on native resolution so do not expecting significant increase for hardware consumption. Major problem for Pimax is his major advantage. FOV. Higher FOV higher resolution to render. That is reason why you need minimum 2080Ti for dissent level of details in game.

With new 3080Ti and possible 30% gain in performances over 2080Ti I guess 8KX will run same good as today 5K+ but with significance gain in clarity similar to Reverb today.

Again possible problem will be price. Naked 8KX HMD will cost minimum 1400$ to reach level of Reverb with controllers, proper tracking and audio will cost around 2000$. Question is do this 40%more in FOV worth this additional 1400$ additional cost?

This could be even higher when we add difference in price of needed GPU when we compare needed GPU to reach same level of details in game. Today to reach same level of clarity and details Reverb reach with 2070Super and 5/8K reach with 2080Ti. So this is additional 500$. Is this increase of FOV worth triple the cost?

 

No doubth Pimax 8KX will be the best VR experience but definitely not the budget friendly and not working in popularization of VR in general.

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...just being short in time for a long answer, but I´ve paid 832,74 $ for preorder the 8KX and Pimax just wrote me to open a ticket to get a refund of 100,- $, so it will be finally 732,74 $ for the 8KX.

 

Edit: ... and I do hope, not to need buying another VR headset in the next 5 years.


Edited by - Voight -
added hopes
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...just being short in time for a long answer, but I´ve paid 832,74 $ for preorder the 8KX and Pimax just wrote me to open a ticket to get a refund of 100,- $, so it will be finally 732,74 $ for the 8KX.

 

Edit: ... and I do hope, not to need buying another VR headset in the next 5 years.

 

 

I'm not talking about backers but this backer prices should be realistic one maybe just little bit more. Today regular price for naked 8K is 900$ and announced regular price for 8KX is 1400$ naked HMD only. So basically you got your in half of the price. :thumbup:

 

Backers do the great job, no doubt but after that Pimax start to be so called greedy milking company.

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I'm not talking about backers but this backer prices should be realistic one maybe just little bit more. Today regular price for naked 8K is 900$ and announced regular price for 8KX is 1400$ naked HMD only. So basically you got your in half of the price. :thumbup:

 

Backers do the great job, no doubt but after that Pimax start to be so called greedy milking company.

 

If you want to get the full Index set, you´re also above 1.000,-

The full Vive Pro set is also above 1.000,-

 

I would think, that Pimax only sets up their prices into the market. They got some real unique selling points compared to the competitors and they know, what these selling points are worth.

 

I´m really happy with the great offerings they made for the backers...didn´t count with that.

 

The more interesting thing is, that the competitors don´t make such huge steps with their VR headsets. The Rift S is slightly better as the CV1 with some different features ( like tracking ) and some less features.

The Vive cosmos was really disappointing as it does not make a next step in the evolution of VR headsets. HP simply put better diplays in a standard VR headset frame to get a unique selling point.

To see, that independent start ups could do the next steps in tech evolution should bring up some question, why multi billion dollar companies don´t.

As having said, I hope I don´t need to buy another new VR headset for the next 5 years.

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