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JDAM/JSOW multiple targets using TOO


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I've read the manual and watched two different tutorials ...

 

and

 

.... but I am unable to designate different TOO targets to different stations. The JDAM MSN page does not behave like in those vids, where the process is to select a station, goto TOO, designate (with LANTIRN), press PPD, STEP, TOO, designate a new target, then PPD, STEP, TOO and so on.

 

No matter how I try it all stations seems to be on the same PPD.

 

Has stuff changed since those clips where recorded or am I missing something?

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Stuff has changed. The TOO - Designate - PP1, TOO - Designate - PP2..... logic wasn't correct in the first place and has currently been removed. PP programming is done either through manual coordinate entry or a data cartridge (in the future). TOO can only engage one target per launch (TOO - Designate - Pickle, Designate - Pickle...).

 

See this thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=254210

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I suspected as much. No point spending more time trying to get my head around that then. Thanks!

 

But it does strike me as a bit strange that there shouldn’t be a way to set up multiple TOO targets by other means than punching the coordinates with the UFC, in the IRL system.

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The thing is that IRL, you'd get PP targets preloaded before takeoff and only switch to TOO as needed.

From what I've understood, the main reason for that IRL the TPOD can't generate accurate enough coordinates at the distances that GPS-guided weapons would be employed and so you'd lose a lot of accuracy if you deployed a JSOW with a TPOD TOO designation, for example.

Of course you can use TOO with a waypoint, but considering the the waypoint coordinates either exist in the INS or are entered manually by the pilot as a new waypoint, it's literally the same as programming a PP target.

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JDAM/JSOW multiple targets using TOO

 

I can drop 8 JSOW in a single pass with the TPOD in TOO.

 

Just

1- select your 4 stations in QTY

2- enter in misión page

3- choose TOO,

4- choose TPOD as SOI

5- find and select your target (press TDC)

6- the target coordinates are transferred to the JSOW TOO page.

6- pickle bottom, bomb away.

7- repeat from 5.

 

Don’t you forget that you need high speed and altitud.

 

Dream Commodore 64C, 1530 datasette, 1541 floppy disk drive, DCS cartridge, competition pro joystick, 14” Tv with VCR.

Edited by arturojgt

Arturo "Chaco" Gonzalez Thomas

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I can drop 8 JSOW in a single pass with the TPOD in TOO.

 

Just

1- select your 4 stations in QTY

2- enter in misión page

3- choose TOO,

4- choose TPOD as SOI

5- find and select your target (press TDC)

6- the target coordinates are transferred to the JSOW TOO page.

6- pickle bottom, bomb away.

7- repeat from 5.

 

Don’t you forget that you need high speed and altitud.

 

Dream Commodore 64C, 1530 datasette, 1541 floppy disk drive, DCS cartridge, competition pro joystick, 14” Tv with VCR.

 

Yeah but that isn't the same as what he is asking about. Before the changes, it was possible to use a combination of TOO and PP to designate (for example) 4 tanks at range and program their coordinates into separate JDAMs. Then you could drop all 4 at almost the same time and avoid the tanks running away when the first one gets hit. Apparently, that behavior didn't match the real system, so it was removed.

 

What you are describing would require something like mark points so you can snap the targeting pod to a number of targets rapidly. That's why someone else above is asking about mark points, albeit in a rather negative way.

 

Mad respect for your signature!

Edited by derammo
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From what I've understood, the main reason for that IRL the TPOD can't generate accurate enough coordinates at the distances that GPS-guided weapons would be employed and so you'd lose a lot of accuracy if you deployed a JSOW with a TPOD TOO designation, for example.

 

I suspect that whole "TOO is forbidden due to insufficient accuracy" thing may have been related to the old AN/AAS-38 Nite Hawk FLIR, that was replaced by the ATFLIR. The source I have at least is dated from before the ATFLIR (AFAIK). I don't know if this is still the case with the new pod (maybe somebody in the know has the information - provided it can be shared at all).

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Yeah but that isn't the same as what he is asking about. Before the changes, it was possible to use a combination of TOO and PP to designate (for example) 4 tanks at range and program their coordinates into separate JDAMs. Then you could drop all 4 at almost the same time and avoid the tanks running away when the first one gets hit. Apparently, that behavior didn't match the real system, so it was removed.

 

What you are describing would require something like mark points so you can snap the targeting pod to a number of targets rapidly. That's why someone else above is asking about mark points, albeit in a rather negative way.

 

Mad respect for your signature!

 

 

You have right, I never think I that “run away” problem.

 

 

Dream Commodore 64C, 1530 datasette, 1541 floppy disk drive, DCS cartridge, competition pro joystick, 14” Tv with VCR.

Arturo "Chaco" Gonzalez Thomas

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Hi guys,

 

I am a little confused right now with this threat.

Does it mean I can not drop JDAMS on WPT targets any more?

I just tried it an no bomb hit.

I took the Waypoitn designate in the MSN page with TOO Mode. The coordinates where set correctly, but in the HSI I only got one small range ring, instead of the 2 in the past.

Thanks a lot,

Mark

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I managed to do it by NOT selecting all stations at once but give every station its target:

Example

QTY Station 2 ->Mission->TOO->TGT POD select target->PP

repeat this for next station and unselect the previous one.

 

I managed to kill 4 Targets( 8 is possible imo) in one run with just one long pickle.

 

Just dont select all Stations at once

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If I have waypoints from the mission editor for the targets, they can be bombed quite quickly in TOO mode:

Let's say that waypoints 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 are targets that are close together so that you want to bomb them all within a short time span. You're carrying 8 JDAMs on double wing pylons.

 

 

 

1. Select TOO mode for all pylons - double check that each and every pylon has TOO mode selected by selecting on and off each single pylon. Selecting TOO for a pylon will cause both bombs on that pylon to be in TOO mode.

 

2. Deselect all pylons - this will cause the pickle button to drop only one bomb at a time and cycle automatically between waypoints.

 

 

3. Have your HSI ready, preferrably without map for better clarity of the button texts. For easier operation you should map the MFD buttons for next waypoint and WPDSG to something easy to reach to be able to press them quickly.

 

4. Select first target waypoint (wpt 3). Select WPDSG (weapon designate). This designates the currently selected waypoint as a target, causing the first JDAM to aim for this point when being released.

 

 

5. Fly towards the waypoint and wait until within drop range for the first bomb on the first target.

 

 

6. Pickle (ie. drop the bomb!).

 

 

7. Select next waypoint on the HSI.

 

 

8. Press WPDSG on the HSI.

 

 

9. Pickle.

 

10. Select next waypoint on the HSI.

 

 

11. Press WPDSG on the HSI.

 

 

12. Pickle.

 

 

And so on - repeat steps 10, 11 and 12 until all bombs are dropped, one on each waypoint.

 

 

 

 

Alternatively, with the targeting pod you'd slew to a target, designate with the HOTAS target designation button, pickle, slew to the next, designate, pickle and so on, if you don't have waypoints and wish to drop on targets you see in the TPOD imagery.

 

 

 

 

All 8 bombs can easily be dropped within 10 seconds, and because the bombs dropped last have a shorter and steeper fall, they will arrive first and all bombs will detonate within probably 3 seconds or so.

Edited by McRuffen
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Ok with waypoints. Very unhandy thouh.

 

 

I can't get over that it should not be possible to spot 4 targets with a TGP and get the coordinates to 4 JDAMs and attack with the 4 simultaneously.

 

 

If ED had implemented the real Hornet software it would have been better than we have it now.

 

 

Is there no chance that a TGP can feed more than 1 JDAM with coordinates?

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  • 11 months later...

It is absolutely out of the question that in real life you wouldn't be able to pick four targets with the TPOD and drop on them simultaneously. It's just too easy to solve with software. To stump one's ability like that would be just silly. Maybe ED is required to depict the behaviour like that because it's classified, maybe they just don't want JDAM:s to be too powerful. But it's simple logic: Each weapon is capable of storing its own target coordinates. The TPOD is capable of generating coordinates. To not write software that can send different coordinates to each bomb and then release them all at once in a modern jet would be silly. Only thing that could be a problem that I can think of would be if you couldn't send different coordinates to each bomb when you have two bombs on the same station, due to the wiring.

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It is absolutely out of the question that in real life you wouldn't be able to pick four targets with the TPOD and drop on them simultaneously. It's just too easy to solve with software. To stump one's ability like that would be just silly. Maybe ED is required to depict the behaviour like that because it's classified, maybe they just don't want JDAM:s to be too powerful. But it's simple logic: Each weapon is capable of storing its own target coordinates. The TPOD is capable of generating coordinates. To not write software that can send different coordinates to each bomb and then release them all at once in a modern jet would be silly. Only thing that could be a problem that I can think of would be if you couldn't send different coordinates to each bomb when you have two bombs on the same station, due to the wiring.

 

You absolutely can pick out 4 targets with the pod and drop on all 4 simultaneously in DCS. You just have to be intelligent about how you use the TGT and constantly be aware of where it is and what effect it will have.

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You absolutely can pick out 4 targets with the pod and drop on all 4 simultaneously in DCS. You just have to be intelligent about how you use the TGT and constantly be aware of where it is and what effect it will have.

 

Yeah, I did some experimenting, and as long as I have 4 jdam:s on 4 different stations I can drop on 4 different targets with one long pickle.

 

jdam page -> msn -> designate tgt with tpod -> step -> slew to next tgt -> step -> slew to next tgt etc -> undesignate tpod -> return-> select all 4 stations -> pickle.

 

But if I have dual racks, i.e. 4 bombs on 2 stations, I can't do it for the life of me. I can get the 4 coordinates to be stored on stn2 too1+too2 and stn8 too1+too2, but I can't get the bombs to drop on the 4 different coordinates in one pickle.

 

Could you please enlighten me how to be intelligent about this?

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The trick with dual racks is to never return to a set of coordinates you've already designated until after you Undesignate.

 

- Designate TOO1 on the first station (Sta.8 TOO1).

- Switch the first station to TOO2 and slew to the next target (Sta.8 TOO2).

- Step to the next station and slew to the next target (Sta.2 TOO1).

- Switch the second station to TOO2 and slew to the final target (Sta.2 TOO2).

- Undesignate.

REAPER 51 | Tholozor

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The trick with dual racks is to never return to a set of coordinates you've already designated until after you Undesignate.

 

- Designate TOO1 on the first station (Sta.8 TOO1).

- Switch the first station to TOO2 and slew to the next target (Sta.8 TOO2).

- Step to the next station and slew to the next target (Sta.2 TOO1).

- Switch the second station to TOO2 and slew to the final target (Sta.2 TOO2).

- Undesignate.

 

Yes, I got that down, as I tried to describe in my post above. The question is: How would I go about releasing all 4 bombs with a single pickle? Is it at all possible?

 

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Yeah, I did some experimenting, and as long as I have 4 jdam:s on 4 different stations I can drop on 4 different targets with one long pickle.

 

jdam page -> msn -> designate tgt with tpod -> step -> slew to next tgt -> step -> slew to next tgt etc -> undesignate tpod -> return-> select all 4 stations -> pickle.

 

But if I have dual racks, i.e. 4 bombs on 2 stations, I can't do it for the life of me. I can get the 4 coordinates to be stored on stn2 too1+too2 and stn8 too1+too2, but I can't get the bombs to drop on the 4 different coordinates in one pickle.

 

Could you please enlighten me how to be intelligent about this?

 

Wait until ED finish up the SMS for dual racks.

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Yeah, that's what I figured was needed, but when I tried, the bombs dropped in pairs. But others seem to have made it work, so maybe I just missed a step! Will try again! Thanks!

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I just tried using the mark points and designate them the same way as waypoints. I started the mission heading toward the pre-planned waypoint located in the area of multiple targets. (structures around the airfield)

At 30k ft and 40 nm to go I had plenty of time to designate and mark 7 targets on Tpod. They just barely came into view on the pod. I slewed from wpt 1 to designate the first target. Once I was in range I sent the first JSOW,

then select each mark, designate it and fire. The whole process took seconds and I was able to turn away at quite a distance from the target area. I did have an issue designating Mark 7. For some reason it wouldn't do it so went back to wpt1 and slewed back to designate the last target. So... overall it sucks one way or another. It's way better then typing 8 sets of coordinates on the way to LP.

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Yeah, that's what I figured was needed, but when I tried, the bombs dropped in pairs. But others seem to have made it work, so maybe I just missed a step! Will try again! Thanks!

 

It’s just incredibly easy to make a mistake. If you follow the steps precisely, it works every time!

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