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XTAL 5K VR HMD has ARRIVED!


-Hammer-1606689095

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How about chromatic aberration? I've seen some of it from the video

 

 

Hiya Falcon,

 

 

 

I think what you have seen is my inability to hold my Iphone Xr's 12MP camera steady in one hand as I simultaneously move the XTAL in my other hand which leads to the focal point of the camera drifting out of the focal point of the lens.

 

 

 

When you actually put the XTAL on and look through the lens directly with your eyes while having the headset strapped / fixed to your head, there is no relative translational movement forward/back/up/down/left, or right, from your eye to the lens focal point which keeps you are "centered" in reference to the lenses.

 

 

Like mentioned above, while wearing the XTAL, your eye position relative to the lenses are fixed and also much CLOSER to the lens than the iPhone camera that I have used to film these videos.

 

 

 

In addition to that, there may be some bleed through from the composite process that tends to add to the phenomena and of course also loss of quality when uploading to youtube.

 

 

 

I'm trying to work on that and will be updating with more info soon :book:

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Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

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VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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Price is definitely drawback of the XTAL in it's current state,

6,200 Euros... yeah :cry:

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I can literally look with my "eyes" not only my head

 

How?

I'm assuming you are talking about in cockpit button/switch selection here.

I have the XTAL, and aiming with the head was not at all fluid. I've not found a way to use eye tracking. To my knowledge that is a future software upgrade.

 

Or are you referring to the 170 degree horizontal FOV?

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How?

I'm assuming you are talking about in cockpit button/switch selection here.

I have the XTAL, and aiming with the head was not at all fluid. I've not found a way to use eye tracking. To my knowledge that is a future software upgrade.

 

Or are you referring to the 170 degree horizontal FOV?

 

 

Hiya Opy, sorry for the delayed response :)

 

 

The eye tracking is already integrated hardware wise, but yes, it is not "enabled" in DCS directly.

 

 

However, the wide 170 FOV like you mentioned, does allow you to clearly see left and right using your eyes alone.

 

 

I.e, the sweet spot is very large covering nearly the entirety of your view in ALL directions unlike other HMDs that are very limited with off-center viewing

 

What you need to have setup properly is your IPD base settings first, then tweak left and right eyes with the individual manual IPD eye adjustment option which will be opened on your desktop screen in the upper left corner.

 

It may be that either your left or right eye (pupil) is not at an exact equally spaced distance from the center of your face (or) the position that the headset is positioned on your head / face is not set in such a way that when you have it set, your IPD is off.

 

Additionally and very important, you need to understand / know the actual separation amount in % required in software for your personal focal point between the two lenses.

 

You configure this in the Advanced Tab of the settings app while running an actual VR application which should be accessible from the lower right hand portion of your windows desktop (the purple XTAL HMD icon)

 

The advanced tab allows you to configure your 3D position and spatial relation to the 3D application that you are interacting with.

 

 

As far as Fluidity issues,

 

I'm not sure why you would have any sort of issues.

 

Are you are using a Tracking system or only the base gyro sensor in the XTAL?

 

I'm using 2 basic Version 1.0 Lighthouses and the motion tracking throughout a 3 meter x 3 meter space is absolutely accurate and amazing.

 

Both Seated and Room Scale experiences are wonderful.

 

 

More pics and videos showing fluidity and clarity to follow soon :thumbup:

PC: i7-6850K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.

Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

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VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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Are you are using a Tracking system or only the base gyro sensor in the XTAL?

 

No lighthouses yet. Hoping to be a bit richer next year and get a 2.0 once they are released in Oz.

Not having that base station is the likely reason I occasionally need to recentre the view.

 

I think it was by default that it was using my head to aim at switches. I was trying to use the seat height adjuster in the A-10C, but the selection was very hard to get onto that switch.

I've got it on mouse now, so much easier, and a preferred method anyway.

 

I think this was written last December (2018)

https://vrgineers.com/vrgineers-xtals-planned-upgrades-inside-out-tracking-eye-tracking-and-xr-cameras/

Hopefully, they are getting close to releasing this upgrade.

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Jeez man, if you're promoting this product, your video's should be a lot better.

The image in Rift-S looks the same if not even better then this piece of hardware that costs 13x as much.

If i zoom in as close as you do, my Rift-S looks better!

You can say a zillion times how good it is compared to other setups but is't NOT showing.

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I finally got the media guys at my office to let me set up DCS in their lab. They currently have the XTAL, VIVE Pro, Index, and Reverb to play with. I spent a solid day this weekend playing around on those rigs and the only thing I liked on the XTAL was the FOV. The Reverb kicks the shit out of it in price/performance and honestly has better visual clarity in DCS. It convinced me enough to order a HP Reverb and replace my O+.

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Well that was painful to watch-and to listen to .

 

!!!And i am not promoting the Xtal!!!

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So far just seems like Xtal promotional videos rather than reviewing.

I am just checking this out from my curiosity anyway, no way would I spend that kind of money for a VR HMD, so I really do not have a dog in the hunt on this so to speak.

Not sure this market is really what VRgineers is gunning for.

Don B

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Jeez man, if you're promoting this product, your video's should be a lot better.

The image in Rift-S looks the same if not even better then this piece of hardware that costs 13x as much.

If i zoom in as close as you do, my Rift-S looks better!

You can say a zillion times how good it is compared to other setups but is't NOT showing.

 

 

Hiya! Lange,

 

Not an easy task to get use an iPhone to take direct through the lens full video, then added to that convert the data to a compatible Youtube video which causes a huge loss in clarity.

 

When viewing directly with your eyes it's literally a different world, i.e, super clear and levels upon levels better than the videos presented here in youtube.

 

 

 

Also, it is nice to be in a 170 degree FOV while having all the clarity as compared to the fish eyed goggles feeling with my Reverb Pro / Vive Pro / Oculus, etc. :thumbup:

 

 

I must admit!, Idefinitely need to invest in a better camera and a better understanding of the production process including video codecs, compression, and all things related to getting an actual 4K resolution video uploaded to youtube.

 

Any tips are helpful! :joy:

 

I finally got the media guys at my office to let me set up DCS in their lab. They currently have the XTAL, VIVE Pro, Index, and Reverb to play with. I spent a solid day this weekend playing around on those rigs and the only thing I liked on the XTAL was the FOV. The Reverb kicks the shit out of it in price/performance and honestly has better visual clarity in DCS. It convinced me enough to order a HP Reverb and replace my O+.

 

As I also have the Reverb Pro Edition, Direct Video Comparisons between the two coming soon. ;)

 

 

By the way, make sure you are hard selecting 1080p for the Video Quality on the YouTube video.

 

 

 

 

Stay Tuned! :thumbup:

PC: i7-6850K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.

Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

Rudder Pedals : TM TPR

VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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Hammer thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Like you said, a cellphone camera at 4K capturing 5k output along with compression loss during video editing and upload will not justify the XTAL’s performance.

 

However the $7,000USD price tag is simply not realistic for the majority of every day gamers. As stated on their website, it’s for “Professionals”. Pimax headsets are within reach for some, but it’s all about price/performance.

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Hammer thanks for taking the time to make these videos. Like you said, a cellphone camera at 4K capturing 5k output along with compression loss during video editing and upload will not justify the XTAL’s performance.

 

However the $7,000USD price tag is simply not realistic for the majority of every day gamers. As stated on their website, it’s for “Professionals”. Pimax headsets are within reach for some, but it’s all about price/performance.

 

 

 

 

Heya Chaz! :thumbup:

 

 

 

I hear ya! The price is definitely a limiting factor for the general masses but the tech is going to trickle down into a consumer version for sure which will bring the pricing down quite a bit.

 

 

 

Just watched the vids, thanks for posting. Not to interested in the xtal but I feel like I stole the F14 for the price, those heatblur guys are amazing!

 

 

Jvanhoog, the F14 is really amazing for sure!

 

 

By the way, I am NOW just starting to actually composite 4K Vids!

 

 

 

It's been a learning experience so once I get a true handle on how to get everything setup properly, I'll be able to do the final cut and produce an overview of the XTAL and how it interacts with DCS and the best ways to get the most out of this amazing tech.

 

 

 

F-16 coming up next! :thumbup:

PC: i7-6850K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.

Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

Rudder Pedals : TM TPR

VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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New Through-The-Lens Video :)

 

 

Make sure to select 4K if your computer can handle it.

 

 

 

 

Looks great, if you need a former ground pounder to put it through its paces please send me one and ill do up a great AAR.

 

:thumbup::pilotfly:

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New Through-The-Lens Video :)

 

 

Make sure to select 4K if your computer can handle it.

 

 

 

 

Looks good. a few questions and comments. And again, this may be related to the through the lens nature of the vid.

 

I saw some blurring on the edges, is that real or a phone artifact?

 

Doesn't look like much/any SDE?

 

Colors look nice-rich compared to my reverb.

 

Doesn't seem quite as "sharp" as my reverb.

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Looks great, if you need a former ground pounder to put it through its paces please send me one and ill do up a great AAR.

 

:thumbup::pilotfly:

 

 

Haha, I'll get ya an F-16 for Christmas lol

 

 

Looks good. a few questions and comments. And again, this may be related to the through the lens nature of the vid.

 

I saw some blurring on the edges, is that real or a phone artifact?

 

Doesn't look like much/any SDE?

 

Colors look nice-rich compared to my reverb.

 

Doesn't seem quite as "sharp" as my reverb.

 

 

 

 

Heya Harlikwin!,

 

 

______________________

The blurring is not actually visible with your eyes because your eye is actually closer to the lens than the camera (and) your eyes' natural FOV is higher than the camera, so there is no "dropoff" in viewing the lens versus what the camera is able to detect. (I'm using a simple iPhoneXr camera to film these)

 

Also when viewing with your eye versus a camera, there is no screen arti-facting and no flickering or anything like that.

 

 

____________________________

In about 98% of all use, I don't see any SDE and I have 20/15 vision.

 

If you try to focus your eyes out of infinity and specifically concentrate on looking for any signs of SDE, it's possible, but it's similar to looking at a 4K UHD TV where you actually have to purposefully seek it out.

 

 

_______________________________

The colors are crystal clear and vibrant.

 

I can honestly say its actually just as sharp and even more sharp / clearer than the Reverb Pro and with the added benefit of being sharp across the entire 170 degree FOV which is actually amazing.

 

It's true that actual per-eye resolution of the Reverb Pro hardware is higher (2160 by 2160) versus the XTAL per eye resolution of (2560 by 1440) , but, in actual use, having the 170 degree COMPLETE FOV (XTAL) versus the max 114 degree of the Reverb Pro, there's really no comparison, the XTAL is clearer across the entire FOV and way more immersive.

 

 

The cool thing with the XTAL is that you can actually look FULL LEFT or RIGHT with your eyes only, i.e, you don't need to move your head AND STILL see the VR content clearly as if you were looking at a continuous sweet spot.

 

In order to achieve this you physically need to have per eye IPD adjustment ability for each lens to be individually adjusted to the differences in distances between each eye and the bridge of your nose / center of your face (the point on which you wear the headset) + wide view aspherical non-fresnel lenses.

 

XTAL has this so you have the ability to have correct physical IPD setup for each individual eye and thus the ability to look around corners with your eye through the lenses.

 

 

More to follow soon!

 

 

 

:joystick:

PC: i7-6850K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.

Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

Rudder Pedals : TM TPR

VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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All of this reviewing still sounding more like a promotion.

Not seeing any critiques.

Don B

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The cool thing with the XTAL is that you can actually look FULL LEFT or RIGHT with your eyes only, i.e, you don't need to move your head AND STILL see the VR content clearly as if you were looking at a continuous sweet spot.

 

For me, that - along with the 170deg FOV - would be the most interesting aspect of any new VR HMD. Great to see that this is implemented in your XTAL. :thumbup:

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Hi Hammer,

 

like your videos independently from its content. The presentation, camera angles, cuts and music really make watching the videos a joy.

 

It´s difficult to make people interest in the XTAL as its price tag is really out of reach for me and most people and therefore there´s not so much interest in the XTAL at all.

Regarding the purpose of the videos to give an impression of the XTAL´s quality is also very difficult, as with all the through the lens videos made for any VR headset.

The through the lens videos are always framed by the camera, what makes it difficult to perceive the distances, which you perceive in 3D virtual space. Therefore, when you´re going close to the object in focus, it will always appear very sharp with every VR headset, but in the videos the viewers miss, how close the VR headset was moved to frame an image with the iPhone camera. So, saying in short: through the lens videos are really difficult to get an impression of the quality, but the videos you make are definitely much more enjoyable, than any other through the lens videos of any other headset I saw on youtube so far.

 

My question out of interest is: Is the XTAL running in permanent parallel mode?

How does VR zoom in DCS work with the XTAL, are the images overlapping, when you use VR zoom?

 

In aynway I share your happiness with this super expensive piece of hardware. No doubt about its superior quality. Some performance indications would also be interesting, like which graphical settings are you using and to which GPU-frametimes do they result ( "fpsVR" is a good tool to measure these ). This just to get an idea if there´s any advantage by more elaborated driver performance in conjunction with SteamVR.

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Haha, I'll get ya an F-16 for Christmas lol

 

 

It's true that actual per-eye resolution of the Reverb Pro hardware is higher (2160 by 2160) versus the XTAL per eye resolution of (2560 by 1440) , but, in actual use, having the 170 degree COMPLETE FOV (XTAL) versus the max 114 degree of the Reverb Pro, there's really no comparison, the XTAL is clearer across the entire FOV and way more immersive.

 

 

 

Yeah, this is the part that I think we might be having a bit of confusion on. The Xtal has a lower per-eye resolution AND a higher overall FOV, so fewer pixels per degree of vision. So its imposible to claim its clearer on the technical side. You've got fewer pixels smeared across a much larger FOV. I mean better optics can improve image quality so maybe they aren't too far apart but I have an issue with your explanation which is exactly backwards.

 

I also think Sveviewer mentioned the reverb was clearer having used both.

 

Anyhow, thanks for the Vids, it definitely looks like a cool headset. I'm hoping to own something better in 2 more years for 1/10th the price though :)

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Heya everyone, Happy Turkey Day if you celebrate Thanks Giving!

 

 

I've been flying the past few days, so apologies for the delayed responses.:pilotfly:

 

 

 

 

 

All of this reviewing still sounding more like a promotion.

Not seeing any critiques.

 

 

Hiya dburne,

 

 

 

The critiques are plenty for certain and I'll be going into those as well.

 

 

 

They will cover the following topics:

 

 

 

-Ergonomic improvements needed

 

-Weights and balance of the HMD

 

-Software use and the ability to clearly understand what is being tuned.

-Demo software and leap motion implementation

 

 

For me, that - along with the 170deg FOV - would be the most interesting aspect of any new VR HMD. Great to see that this is implemented in your XTAL. :thumbup:

 

 

Heya rrohde, yep the 170 Degree FOV while maintaining visual clarity and sharpness throughout is game changing!

 

 

 

Hi Hammer,

 

like your videos independently from its content. The presentation, camera angles, cuts and music really make watching the videos a joy.

 

It´s difficult to make people interest in the XTAL as its price tag is really out of reach for me and most people and therefore there´s not so much interest in the XTAL at all.

Regarding the purpose of the videos to give an impression of the XTAL´s quality is also very difficult, as with all the through the lens videos made for any VR headset.

The through the lens videos are always framed by the camera, what makes it difficult to perceive the distances, which you perceive in 3D virtual space. Therefore, when you´re going close to the object in focus, it will always appear very sharp with every VR headset, but in the videos the viewers miss, how close the VR headset was moved to frame an image with the iPhone camera. So, saying in short: through the lens videos are really difficult to get an impression of the quality, but the videos you make are definitely much more enjoyable, than any other through the lens videos of any other headset I saw on youtube so far.

 

My question out of interest is: Is the XTAL running in permanent parallel mode?

How does VR zoom in DCS work with the XTAL, are the images overlapping, when you use VR zoom?

 

In aynway I share your happiness with this super expensive piece of hardware. No doubt about its superior quality. Some performance indications would also be interesting, like which graphical settings are you using and to which GPU-frametimes do they result ( "fpsVR" is a good tool to measure these ). This just to get an idea if there´s any advantage by more elaborated driver performance in conjunction with SteamVR.

 

 

Voight, <s>! Thanks for the questions and feedback too.

 

 

 

I will install and utilize the "fpsVR" software in the next video to get some feedback to everyone.

 

 

 

As far as permanent parallel mode, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. Are you referring to an Nvidia display setting or directmode within the XTAL software application?

 

 

There are generally 2 ways in which you connect your XTAL to the computer and have a usable VR HMD. One is in Direct Mode (which is an Nvidia supported function) and the other is via OpenVr which SteamVR uses.

 

 

 

You can only run the XTAL in one mode at a time. I.e., you need to switch out of OpenVR mode when using things like Unreal Engine / Unity applications directly and OpenVR when using anything through steam.

 

 

 

Both work great.

 

 

 

VR zoom in DCS is implemented and works awesome with the XTAL (just as it does with my Reverb Pro/Oculus/Vive/Vive Pro)

 

 

Having your IPD (for each individual eye set) properly + the distance from lens to eye setup properly creates a SINGLE non-overlapping, perfect field of FOV that you have which wraps around your natural FOV.

 

 

 

Yeah, this is the part that I think we might be having a bit of confusion on. The Xtal has a lower per-eye resolution AND a higher overall FOV, so fewer pixels per degree of vision. So its imposible to claim its clearer on the technical side. You've got fewer pixels smeared across a much larger FOV. I mean better optics can improve image quality so maybe they aren't too far apart but I have an issue with your explanation which is exactly backwards.

 

I also think Sveviewer mentioned the reverb was clearer having used both.

 

Anyhow, thanks for the Vids, it definitely looks like a cool headset. I'm hoping to own something better in 2 more years for 1/10th the price though :)

 

 

 

 

Heya Harlikwin!

 

 

I think there is a misunderstanding here where you think they are "stretching" a flat image projection from an OLED screen in order to fill pixel space as viewed through the lens.

 

 

 

There is certainly a display that is being amplified through the use of lens magnification to fill your FOV (170 deg in XTAL) but this is not being completely accomplished through lens magnification in and of itself.

 

 

 

There are software functions being run in the hardware to actually get you the wide view without the loss of quality in FOV across the pixel space.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem as simple as having the highest PPD, then having that information / data being amplified / magnified via the natural lens to give the whole picture.

 

 

 

For lack of a better word, there is software magic / algorithms being performed to get the clarity of the natural lens with the current display and it's inherent resolution limitations per screen per eye to give the impression that it is clear throughout. Perhaps a sort of lossless scaling per eye for the final rendered image / viewable image.

 

 

 

By the way, the through-lens-videos produced by Sabastian Ang

 

 

 

 

 

Clearly show the large difference in actual quality across the viewable image per eye with the Reverb compared to the XTAL.

 

 

 

You can also see the very small sweet spot and clarity across the viewable FOV of the Reverb compared to the XTAL as shown in my videos.

 

 

Like ya said though, the XTAL is definitely not a cheap product, it does cost quite a bit at this point (for a general consumer), but this tech is at the forefront right now and is the actual highest quality HMD that one can get that actually works out of the box.

 

 

Granted, in it's current iteration, it's not marketed as a consumer grade VR headset, but it will pave the way for the next generation of low cost solutions coming in the future. :beer:

More info soon, Stay tuned!

PC: i7-6850K/2080Ti, 32GB RAM.

Flight Controls: Thrust Master Warthog Set

Rudder Pedals : TM TPR

VR: HTC Vive & Pro / Oculus Rift / HP Reverb Pro / XTAL

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Sorry mate, but the only thing that is magic here is the placebo effect. The xtal does stretch those pixels across the full FOV, as clearly stated in the specs. I've now spoken to a few people who have tried both the Xtal and the Reverb, and the consensus is unanimous - the Reverb has far superior image quality due to its higher pixelbcount spread over a smaller field of view. There's no way to get around the lower res of the Xtal, not even foveated rendering will increase pixels per inch; even if it does come to the Xtal, all it may do is deliver performance benefits, as the entire screen won't need to be high res. I get the feeling that you're trying to justify to yourself that the high price was worth it, but I'm sorry to say it's simply an inferior HMD compared to the Reverb.

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