SUGGESTION | Roll Trim sensitivity

[Strikeeagle345]

I was discussing this with BIGNEWY on the ED Discord, and he suggested I make a thread on this.

 

I have noticed an "over trim" or "over sensitive" Roll Trim when trimming out asymmetric loads. What I mean by this is, it is next to impossible to trim out the unwanted roll due to how much roll trim is applied by just tapping the trim hat left and right. I find my self tapping left and right over and over in hope to counter the unwanted roll.

 

Heatblur did something to combat this early on in the EA release. They reduced how much roll and pitch was entered for every tap of the trim hat. They also enabled an accelerated trim function, ie. holding down the trim hat in any direction will increase how quick the trim hat trims the jet.

 

Hopefully this is something ED can incorporate, at least on the roll trim as pitch trim is hardly needed thanks to the FLCS.

[Swift.]

I second this, an option to change the sensitivity of polling actions like trim and perhaps scrolling (on dials) would be greatly appreciated.

[Hunter Joker]

As You touch the roll trim You inevitabily overtrim....

 

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

[TheGuardian]

Yea, turning down the setting or maybe adding a slower trim modifier would be great. Kinda like zoom slow.

[Appleonastick]

A tatch less sensitive wouldn't hurt.

Right now it's a constant fight.

[Darcwaynard]

+1 unless SME's confirm its realistic.

 

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

[Harlikwin]

Yup, big +1 on this. Unless viper pilots routinely have trouble trimmig the aircraft.

[Deano87]

I made a thread about this ages ago. Perhaps mods can combine them.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251445

[VampireNZ]

Yep +1 on this.

 

I have actually used DCS against itself to help solve this one. Using a DSD button box rotary encoder in the Viper for say a volume knob or EHSI course is worse than painful, requiring substantially more rotations of the encoder compared to the control in the cockpit - so I have mapped the manual roll trim wheel to a rotary encoder, and now 1 click of the encoder results in a much more sensitive application of roll trim than the trim hat.

[Delareon]

Oh yeah, that would be cool.

 

Currently i use the Slider next to the Throttle on the Warthog with a massive curve and im finally able to roll trim without fighting against the trim.

 

But im only able to use this since i play VR only lately because this was my zoom axis before.

[=Pedro=]

+1

[bbrz]

The -1 mentions that the roll trim wheel should be used to counter asymmetric loads since using the stick (hat) switch for precise roll trim is difficult.

 

Is there a difference between these two in the DCS F-16? (can't check/test since I'm not near my PC)

[Frederf]

Trim stick switch acts as a remote actuator for the wheels. Wheels have motors in them to actually move when using stick trim or you can move them manually. The indicator needles show actual input so for example when unpowered on the ground the wheel movements would not have indicator changes.

 

Minimum duration stick switch activation is about 1/5th of a needle width although this greatly depends on physical technique. One mousewheel bump on the trim wheel is approximately the same size. I tried to go through a given range of motion with switch taps vs mousewheel and I took 16 taps to do the same as 13 mousewheel bumps.

 

However click and drag on the trim wheel is noticeably more fine resolution than either switch taps or mousewheel on wheel bumps.

[WHOGX5]

+1

 

 

Trim is ridiculously hard to do fine adjustments with in the DCS F-16. I don't know which is more realistic but I really like the F-18's trim because you can do such incredibly minuscule adjustments with ease. Also, don't only fix the roll trim, fix pitch as well.

[Mainstay]

+1 way to sensitive right now

[randomTOTEN]

I want realistic trim rates over "easier" rates. If it ain't easy in the real deal, it ain't easy in DCS!

[Emmy]

I want realistic trim rates over "easier" rates. If it ain't easy in the real deal, it ain't easy in DCS!

 

 

I've never seen a production aircraft of any kind that could not be trimmed hands off (or damn close) when all four forces are balanced.

 

The current state of the Viper is such that regardless of flying straight and level at a fixed power setting, it will not sit still. It wants to either climb or descend and roll one way or the other and any attempt to null out pitch or roll, you simply can't because any correction causes the opposite to happen. A slight climb becomes a slight dive and/or a slight left roll becomes a slight right roll.

 

 

I can't believe that this is correct.

[bbrz]

The current state of the Viper is such that regardless of flying straight and level at a fixed power setting, it will not sit still. It wants to either climb or descend and roll one way or the other and any attempt to null out pitch or roll, you simply can't because any correction causes the opposite to happen. A slight climb becomes a slight dive and/or a slight left roll becomes a slight right roll.

Definitely not seing this problem. Neither in pitch nor in roll. And the roll problem seems to be fixed since the latest patch for most users.

[randomTOTEN]

Nonsense,

 

Please view the attached screenshot. Taken a full 60 seconds after I had released my joystick.:megalol:

 

I can already tell that the roll trim rate has been reduced from when it first released. Whether it's from threads like this or in response to more accurate information I don't know, but it's noticeable. Lets not gimp the airplane to relieve users from developing the skills of aircraft control.

 

And lets talk about why you guys are having difficulty controlling an aircraft, we can start there.:joystick:

[Emmy]

^^^ Post Video ^^^

 

 

(And what is your joystick setup?)

[Strikeeagle345]

Nonsense,

 

Please view the attached screenshot. Taken a full 60 seconds after I had released my joystick.:megalol:

 

I can already tell that the roll trim rate has been reduced from when it first released. Whether it's from threads like this or in response to more accurate information I don't know, but it's noticeable. Lets not gimp the airplane to relieve users from developing the skills of aircraft control.

 

And lets talk about why you guys are having difficulty controlling an aircraft, we can start there.:joystick:

 

Had nothing to do with not being able to control the aircraft. It had an issue and it was fixed.

[randomTOTEN]

Yes, and now my roll trim is noticeably slow when I do the trim check during startup.

You started this thread with,

it is next to impossible to trim out the unwanted roll due to how much roll trim is applied by just tapping the trim hat left and right

And now it's changed. Is this more accurate to the real aircraft? Who cares apparently. You talked about "simulator" features such as accelerating trim, and tuned trim rates for user ease.

These are not realistic to the aircraft, unless they were features of the subject aircraft.

 

Lets have realistic systems and flight controls first. If that's too overwhelming for the majority of customers and their hardware, then we should add simulator concessions.. just as I have a deadzone for my cheap desktop joystick.

[Strikeeagle345]

Yes, and now my roll trim is noticeably slow when I do the trim check during startup.

You started this thread with,

And now it's changed. Is this more accurate to the real aircraft? Who cares apparently. You talked about "simulator" features such as accelerating trim, and tuned trim rates for user ease.

These are not realistic to the aircraft, unless they were features of the subject aircraft.

 

Lets have realistic systems and flight controls first. If that's too overwhelming for the majority of customers and their hardware, then we should add simulator concessions.. just as I have a deadzone for my cheap desktop joystick.

 

You have a source to that not being realistic? Because from what I have been hearing from some SMEs in discord, it should have a much more precise trim hat, which they seem to have corrected.:thumbup:

[randomTOTEN]

Appeal to authority.

 

What is the rate at which the control moves when the trim hat is activated? This is an electrical/mechanical device, it's performance can be measured and replicated. This is the subject matter for which having experts is greatly appreciated!

"more precise trim hat" isn't a measurable value. At trim hat is a button... I don't know what "more precise" means.. you press it in a direction and it closes a circuit. ON, OFF, 1, 0... how much more precision does a SME want LOL.

Edited November 4, 2019 by randomTOTEN

[Strikeeagle345]

Appeal to authority.

 

What is the rate at which the control moves when the trim hat is activated? This is an electrical/mechanical device, it's performance can be measured and replicated. This is the subject matter for which having experts is greatly appreciated!

"more precise trim hat" isn't a measurable value. At trim hat is a button... I don't know what "more precise" means.. you press it in a direction and it closes a circuit. ON, OFF, 1, 0... how much more precision does a SME want LOL.

 

Exactly, they were obviously able to locate the error and correct it based off the feedback and documentation from the SMEs. How inaccurate do you want it to be? It being "difficult to trim out" does not equal realism.... :doh: