Realsimulator F-16 Throttle

[sk000tch]

I cannot imagine the cost, but they do make turn-key home edition sims. You can see their throttle in the pics. Most companies that make profession or near level-d quality components do 1:1, but the f-16 is a little unusual in how its mounted so it looks like there are a number of approaches. Its non-linear so I can't imagine we are talking desktop here, perhaps dzus or some flexible mounting system with likely just a friction adjust?

 

The question then is the gates, they are on the sidewall. It looks like both the pro and home edition use a long level arm to an assembly with friction adjust in the left console. Supmua said they were considering adapting their pro, as it would be quick & easy for them to do, so I'd not expect significant deviation.

 

It's just hard to tell how large the mechanical "below the panel" part is. Looks like it could be sizeable given the pic below. For people with a modular pit that would work pretty well. Not sure how that works as a desktop product, though some sort of deskmout would probably work. Or maybe they intend to go WH style and build that section of console w/ audio, UHF, eng/jet start, and such. It almost certainly would have to be substantially deeper than the WH throttle. The Level D sims i've been in have throttles with linkages that look more link Winwings than WH (though ironically i've seen plenty of military/nasa sim projects use actual TM warthogs).

 

Their home edition sim throttle:

 

 

Edited to add a link to pic of aerotronics throttle: http://www.aerotronicsllc.com/images/f16set.jpg

 

They do similar approach it looks like. That's not to say it would look anything like this, but rather just defining the engineering problem I guess. Supmua they give you any idea of what they were talking about doing?

Edited October 25, 2019 by sk000tch

[Wicked.-]

Aerotronics has eliminated the throttle guide on the side wall and the detents are somehow connected to the rudders... I've not figured that one out but there are ways to eliminate the guide.

 

 

This is the real thing. F-16C Block 50/52 I believe from what I can see of the radio switch.

 

 

[sk000tch]

Cool

 

The question remains however, that looks good for pits, but i imagine a lot of the yes’s in here are assuming something more typical of other products, that can at least work with desk mounts.

[Sokol1_br]

Edited October 26, 2019 by Sokol1_br

[sk000tch]

 

sign me up. Again though, my point was more about what reamsimulators has in mind. I was assuming, give their past products, we'd looking at something near 1:1, but many of the posts in this thread make me suspect other people are not, or have unrealistic price expectations.

 

It would give us some idea of if they are talking about. Ii forget their tier system but their high end/commercial product line would presumably look more like aerotronic in the link than anything thrustmaster makes. Is that what they are talking about? Or do they intend something, as bookend example, with a just a couple inch pivoting an axis like the warthog.

 

I'm probably in either way just for the form factor of the grip and expected quality. But would ben nice to have an idea

[Wicked.-]

I'm making one currently and this is the big question I'm struggling with. I've seen a very nice base, throttle arm and friction design a guy did on the other Viper sim forums. He scaled down the arm and wheel to fit in a slightly larger base than the one for a Cougar TQS. Apart from scale he also moved the friction wheel away from the arm about an inch. Unfortunately it had a Cougar TQS grip attached to it and he wants $4000 to build them.... he sold the one I saw in the video but if I'm going to spend that much I'll buy an almost perfect replica from Aerotronics.

While I can use a full size, a scaled down but correctly functioning arm and friction wheel would work best all around. Unless you're building a pit.

[sk000tch]

Unfortunately it had a Cougar TQS grip attached to it and he wants $4000 to build them.... he sold the one I saw in the video but if I'm going to spend that much I'll buy an almost perfect replica from Aerotronics.

While I can use a full size, a scaled down but correctly functioning arm and friction wheel would work best all around. Unless you're building a pit.

 

 

Case in point for the need here realism ^^^^^

 

Most Commercial manufacturers, if they are willing to take your call, do the same. Likely not as nice as what real sim folk would put together either.

 

The oddness of the viper throttle does introduce a whole lot of challenges from scale, mounting, etc. It's not like an f-18, which is basically just quality grip on a much, much longer lever arm on pivot axis (longer than stuff we have, not longer than f-16). Though I wish someone would build one of these too Btw).

[Wicked.-]

The oddness of the Viper throttle is what pushes all of my "THAT IS ****ING COOL!!!" buttons lol.

[sk000tch]

The oddness of the Viper throttle is what pushes all of my "THAT IS ****ING COOL!!!" buttons lol.

 

100% with you, but engineering school was long time ago, but I am hyper anal about controls, and thus far my attempts to design a modular pit specifically for VR that works for f-16/18/14, A-10, AV8, UH1 and KA-50, have been unsuccessful. Disregarding UFC/ICP and button/switch layout... sticks are good - side stick, and center mount w/ options. But throttles and collective?

 

I can do a collective and throttle, but without some transformer shit I have not come up with a good solution for throttles. It'd help if we had specs, or confirmation that winwing will sell that throttle solo, etc.

 

Anyway, way off topic. We are all in agreement that production of a realsim throttle must begin immediately. Supmua - any updates?

[Supmua]

No news. Anyway don’t expect this to be a fast process even if it happens as they also have other things on their plate (software expansion, new castle hat option for the F-16 grip, F-18 grips, left handed grips). The F-16 grip took a long while before being released to the public. If you guys bug them enough in their forums it might happen quicker.

[Highwayman-Ed]

Sub US$300, I'm in.

[Shadoga]

There‘s no such thing as sub-$300 HOTAS hardware from Realsimulator.

Depending on the throttle arm and detent mechanism, I expect a new Viper throttle by them ranging between $600 and $1200.

[Wicked.-]

There‘s no such thing as sub-$300 HOTAS hardware from Realsimulator.

Depending on the throttle arm and detent mechanism, I expect a new Viper throttle by them ranging between $600 and $1200.

 

Truth.. My F-16SGRH grip was over $500.

[Icebeat]

I'm making one currently and this is the big question I'm struggling with. I've seen a very nice base, throttle arm and friction design a guy did on the other Viper sim forums. He scaled down the arm and wheel to fit in a slightly larger base than the one for a Cougar TQS. Apart from scale he also moved the friction wheel away from the arm about an inch. Unfortunately it had a Cougar TQS grip attached to it and he wants $4000 to build them.... he sold the one I saw in the video but if I'm going to spend that much I'll buy an almost perfect replica from Aerotronics.

While I can use a full size, a scaled down but correctly functioning arm and friction wheel would work best all around. Unless you're building a pit.

 

It is pretty easy to build an arm/friction mount for a cougar throttle grip. I have one working builded with home depot components. The problem is the original Thrustmaster components inside, they are basically trash and there are no replacement.

[ivo]

Take my money...( max. 300€)

[Wicked.-]

It is pretty easy to build an arm/friction mount for a cougar throttle grip. I have one working builded with home depot components. The problem is the original Thrustmaster components inside, they are basically trash and there are no replacement.

 

Agreed. I've been searching a couple months now for a double gang, center detent, with pushbutton 50K potentiometer. I'm also working on other designs to arrive at the same function. I'm not using the Cougar design but the actual grip design which brings its own complications, especially for the microstick. But it will be worth it in the end. My goal is to create a design that's focused on the mechanical functioning of the throttle gimbal and pot/Hall sensor, whichever it ends up being. This was the big failure of the Cougar and the fact it's made out of zinc. It will be designed to last 20 years easily, provide the same access for repairs as the real one, using easily sourced parts, have open source firmware/software and be able to host other pit building I/O boards for future use if I want it.

Ideally I'd just buy the radio, DF and SB switches from Otto..... but that would be a $1,000 alone!

[Covurt]

Throwing my CC at you now!

[sk000tch]

supmua, sorry i missed your poset hiding at the bottom. I will take effort to nudge along. I figured they have something from full sim civy edition, so it wouldn't be much to change. But your right, tempered expectations are better way to go.

 

SPEAKING OF WHICH>>>>

 

like 1/3 of the replies in here are like "sub 300 i'm in." Gonna be straight with you dudes, it's not going to happen. Consider:

 

Warthog Throttle is $299 on amazon. For $450 you get the gimbal and a grip.

 

Realsimulator gimbal is $500 + shipping. Their F16SGRH grip last I checked was like $520. Pic of their throttle in home edition sim is below.

 

We can make a few assumptions. A- Its going to be better than a cougar. B- from gates to grip the shaft will be strong, zero flex, with quality, crips buttons, so to speak; and C-

 

It's not going to be $300.

 

Not trying to be a dick or piss on anybody's party. But I don't want people to have unreasoanble expectations. We're begging these guys to build it, not cool to then get all fired up when it's more than the thrustmaster you can pick up at best buy. Fortunately the slew isn't force sensing but consider the gate mechanism, grip rotation, size, etdc. We don't know for sure what

they are thinking, bugeye did a slider but I doubt they will i e.g. It's not going to fit your warthog desk mounts

[Supmua]

Well, this is the exact response.

 

“Yes, for the F16 Throttle, we can do a perfect one for home use. doing a special version of our actual TTS version, I think you can see some images in the promotional TTS video , in our home page.”

 

Now because most people are using desktop mount, the exact replica isn’t going to work as the arm is going to be too long. But they sure have the ability to make it happen as they have done the simpit version.

 

Regarding the price, do not expect it to be cheaper than Virpil or Thrustmaster. For those that think their stick and base are too expensive then it will likely be the same expectation with the throttle.

[dali]

count me in.

[BuzzU]

I'd go for $500.

[Supmua]

For the excellent support that they typically provide, the extra cost is worth it. There are not many companies that would video call their customers for direct tech support or provide one on one tutorial.

[sk000tch]

For the excellent support that they typically provide, the extra cost is worth it. There are not many companies that would video call their customers for direct tech support or provide one on one tutorial.

 

Video call eh? That is unusual. Honestly, more than means of communication, having someone knowledgeable that understands the product is just as important. I assume if they video called you like that, this was also the case

[Wicked.-]

My experience with RS is outstanding. Their products are not cheap but you get what you pay for. They also listen to their customers and respond immediately, whether for a problem or to custom make a part for your controller. Case in point, I recently asked if they could make an alternate DMS Castle switch to replace the stadium style on my F16SGRH. I can't use Debolestis' DMS because the RS switch is nothing like the Warthog or Cougar. Within a day, they had 3D printed one for us to look at and then sent a prototype for Supmua to test. I'm buying one as soon as I get the email it's ready.

All that said, they would make an accurate TQS but it would be at least $800; probably more.

From my research I've pretty much sourced all of the original switches. The RadarCursor/Enable is $150 non mil-spec, 4 way radio $150 non mil-spec, speed break $240 non mil-spec, DF $240 non mil-spec. The Man Range/uncage knob is still the hardest to source. The closest I've gotten and have working has 50Kohm potentiometer, push button switch but no center detent. The radar antenna is pretty easy to source. Can you use some cheaper method? Yes, it's called a Cougar lol. I'm not looking for another Cougar. I want a mechanicaly accurate, upgradable,and repairable TQS. It ain't gonna be cheap regardless of who makes it.

[horus-DCS]

I already asked RS about the new replica throttle a few months ago, they said it would be possible. I’m just waiting for their official statement.

 

 

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