Brakes

[Hunkey]

Is this an actual representation of the real world performance regarding the F-16 Wheelbrakes?

 

If so - taxiing is sometimes harder than the mission itself.

[mvsgas]

Could you elaborate?

[13WELT_JankeS]

Is this an actual representation of the real world performance regarding the F-16 Wheelbrakes?

 

If so - taxiing is sometimes harder than the mission itself.

 

Maybe you need to calibrate the throttle idle?

[donkeyrider]

No real world F-16 experience but I find taxiing to be straightforward and wheel brakes are moer than adequate. The key is to slow down for corners. You can't rail around them like it's grand theft auto. :)

[=Pedro=]

No real world F-16 experience but I find taxiing to be straightforward and wheel brakes are moer than adequate. The key is to slow down for corners. You can't rail around them like it's grand theft auto. :)

 

:thumbup:

[Kreye]

I get the OPs question in regards of the brakes. The problem is, that even with anti skid on, the brakes keep locking up when landing.

 

 

 

I dont come in hot, fly the right aoa and speed, do the aerial braking and on the last bit the viper seems to struggle to come to an adequate taxiing speed while the brakes lock up.

[mvsgas]

...struggle to come to an adequate taxiing speed while the brakes lock up.

 

At what fuel weight are you landing? I tend to land with 3500lbs or less, having no problem stopping so far.

[BIGNEWY]

Add a short track replay of a landing we will all take a look, might be able to give you some advice

[CSL_Ondras]

The issue is not much about being able to stop the aircarft, but in external view it is clearly visible, that the wheels are blocked, the tyres screech and one basically slides on the runway (all when applying effective braking force).

 

 

O.

[wernst]

I get the OPs question in regards of the brakes. The problem is, that even with anti skid on, the brakes keep locking up when landing.

 

 

 

I dont come in hot, fly the right aoa and speed, do the aerial braking and on the last bit the viper seems to struggle to come to an adequate taxiing speed while the brakes lock up.

 

 

 

I canconfirm your findings. Landing roll is by far too long, effect of applying full wheel brakes is barely noticeable.

Landing without any payload, with half fuel, moderate headwind, full speed brakes, touch down on threshold at 190 kts may end up in the grass at the end of RWY (e.g. CAU, Senaki)

[bbrz]

Landing without any payload, with half fuel, moderate headwind, full speed brakes, touch down on threshold at 190 kts may end up in the grass at the end of RWY (e.g. CAU, Senaki)

If you are touching down at 190kts at low weight you are doing something seriously wrong!

[Hunkey]

Yeah my point was focused more on the landings than taxiing - the brakes there feel almost non-existent.

[F31x]

The Viper brakes are feeling like they are actually not breaking on landing. On Taxi they are also "weak" compared to other airplanes. I do not know if this is realistic.

 

 

I've overshoot the runway many times in MP with the DCS Viper. I've flown a lot of BMS in the last months, maybe you tell me BMS is unrealistic in it's groundhandling (what is true). But on landing the brakes are in comparsion much more active then in DCS. As said above - even with full brakes applied it feels like nothing is actually happening on landing.

[wernst]

If you are touching down at 190kts at low weight you are doing something seriously wrong!

 

 

 

sorry, you're right. Of Course, 190 kts was my initial approach speed on downwind (gear down) and sure not the final touch down speed.

On final after setting the AoA for landing configuration the touch down speed was always below 150 kts.

But even so the grass at the end of the RWY could then be seen in detail.

Edited October 15, 2019 by wernst

[F31x]

sorry, you're right. Of Course, 190 kts was my initial approach speed on downwind (gear down) and sure not the final touch down speed.

On final after setting the AoA for landing configuration the touch down speed was always below 150 kts.

But even so the grass at the end of the RWY could then be seen in detail.

 

 

THIS!

[kengou]

Without videos and tracks it's hard for us to know if you're doing anything wrong.

 

 

For what it's worth I've been playing other F-16 sims for years before this, and in taxi/landing/takeoff DCS feels just the same. No problems braking for me. Make sure to open the speed brake on landing, aerobrake until 100 kts, pull stick full aft after the nosewheel is down for more drag, and brake only below like 70 knots or so. Should slow you down well before the end of the runway.

[bbrz]

The correct procedure to achieve the minimum landing run is to aerobrake with 13deg AoA and apply maximum braking at the same time.

 

As soon as the brakes become effective, the nose will lower automatically.

[Wags]

The correct procedure to achieve the minimum landing run is to aerobrake with 13deg AoA and apply maximum braking at the same time.

 

As soon as the brakes become effective, the nose will lower automatically.

 

A slight clarification... Once below 100 kts, let the nose drop and override the speedbrakes to open them all the way.

 

Thanks

[Frederf]

bbrz is talking about short field landing technique which is different. Using this technique braking is aggressive and the nose falls whenever it does which is sooner than normal landing technique. In my case lost nose authority with full aft stick at 130 knots. I'm sure that's CG dependent.

 

This should all be testable. One can predict a 28klb F-16 landing at ISA standard sea level runway to have a 3500' uncorrected ground roll and about 3,900' corrected for RCR 16 (3,500' RCR 23).

 

I made two runs with best effort short field technique as described, first in 4,068' and second in 4,135'. The second one is different in that unlimited fuel was enforced keeping fuel weight constant throughout and therefore slightly heavier than first.

 

If anyone wants to replicate total weight was 66% fuel, 2x370 gallon tanks, total weight 28001 lbs, unlimited fuel on, standard DCS environment with temperature set 15C. Landed at Batumi with group of 40xHMMWV at default group increment spacing beside runway as yardstick, reviewed with Tacview to identify HMMWV next to touchdown and final stop point.

 

The discrepancy could be pilot technique, braking effectiveness, drag effectiveness, idle thrust error, anti-skid programming, runway RCR, or other unknown factor.

[Bouli306]

A slight clarification... Once below 100 kts, let the nose drop and override the speedbrakes to open them all the way.

 

Thanks

 

And pull on the stick! Horizontals act as speedbrakes to.

[Agg]

See this is why we need a version with a drag chute ;)

[bbrz]

Although the brakes are presently a bit too weak, I don't see why a drag chute would be needed.

 

With full gun ammo and 50% fuel I need only ~4000ft landing distance. (Should be ~3000ft acccording to the -1)

[Dispatch]

Although the brakes are presently a bit too weak, I don't see why a drag chute would be needed.

 

With full gun ammo and 50% fuel I need only ~4000ft landing distance. (Should be ~3000ft acccording to the -1)

 

 

Agree-ed:thumbup:

[macedk]

U sneeze and bump the throttle and you are off the the races ....big engine --light plane ;)

 

F-5 agility and with umpf :)

[Eldur]

I don't have problems landing at Senaki. Come in on the glide slope, FPM roughly at the upper end of the bracket. Down to ~40ft AGL, chop throttle, flare and after a gentle touchdown, try to keep that FPM within the bracket with some wheel brakes (I usually apply roughly an eighth), once the nose tends to come down at around 100kts, let her do so gently, then increase brakes (a fourth for me most times - if it gets tight, I go up to a half which usuall is enough) and full back stick. I don't even deploy speed brakes at all... usually I can just taxi off to that big ramp when coming in from the east (which is why I do that in the first place, so I don't have to taxi all the way back).