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VR or TrackIr?


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I'm not a "gamer" and pretty much have no use for games. For me it's the difference between being "in" the aircraft getting flight time. ( though perhaps forgetting my eyeglasses at home), Or, playing a video game looking a pretty graphics on a screen. I have no time for games!

 

Lol, DCS is a video game regardless of your input devices. Strapping something to your face makes you no less a gamer than someone who doesn't. The truth is that you are playing war while people are actually fighting and dying in Syria and other parts of the world, and our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives in these aircraft so that we could sit comfortably in our living rooms surrounded by luxury goods and play on our computers.

Every sim community is like this - people insisting on the legitimacy of their experience and refusing to believe that they would stoop so low as to play a video game.

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I get your point about super sampling. It’s not a very good solution because you’re paying the performance cost for high resolution without much of the benefit.

 

Actually, you're paying a higher cost for "equivalent" resolution with super sampling. Each frame, in each eye, has to be up-converted to the higher resolution, and then down-converted so it can be displayed at the correct size and aspect ratio in the given display. That adds at least 4 extra processor clock cycles to render each frame. The higher resolution headset using no super sampling only has to do it once per frame, per eye. So, in conclusion, a higher resolution headset doesn't take more horsepower to run as conventional wisdom dictates, since the performance impact of super sampling in lower res headsets results in an exponential demand on hardware compared to the linear relationship of just comparing pixels.

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Regarding BFM it is for sure correct, that Id needed much more time to adjust to it. But turning your upper body to check the 6 is rather intensive and makes it hard to maintain controlled inputs. Also (but thats a Reverb-specific situation and could be solved somehow) the stiff cable of the Reverb is limiting my movements. Nevertheless I still firmly believe, that spotting is easier on a monitor and thats essetial for me.

.

 

For the cable limiting movement, I just sit on the cable and leave enough slack at the top to allow for unrestricted head movement.

 

Wish you would give it just a little more time, Wali763, but I also understand that everybody's time is valuable, and that you have a limited window in which to make the decision to return it for a refund.

 

Flying the F-16 in VR though, I have no trouble spotting an F-5 flying on the deck, when I'm at 24,000 feet having fun weaving in and out of the contrail left by the C-17 I'm shadowing. Nothing like VR for getting the actual feeling of flying through a contrail.

 

Anyway, no religion here. You do you. As for me, my HOTAS and TIR 5 were gathering dust before consumer-level VR came along.

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Actually, you're paying a higher cost for "equivalent" resolution with super sampling. Each frame, in each eye, has to be up-converted to the higher resolution, and then down-converted so it can be displayed at the correct size and aspect ratio in the given display. That adds at least 4 extra processor clock cycles to render each frame. The higher resolution headset using no super sampling only has to do it once per frame, per eye. So, in conclusion, a higher resolution headset doesn't take more horsepower to run as conventional wisdom dictates, since the performance impact of super sampling in lower res headsets results in an exponential demand on hardware compared to the linear relationship of just comparing pixels.

Right. I get what super sampling is. The bottom line is you are always better off to run the native resolution of your display, HMD or monitor. On a monitor, the benefits of SS are almost imperceptible, in VR with the pixels right up close maybe it’s more noticeable. And the performance cost is rather huge. That’s a drawback of the current crop of HMDs, it seems many are depending on “pixel density” ie super sampling, in order to achieve a smooth image. This isn’t ideal at all. I agree with you. If you’re going to pay that resolution performance cost, then just get a higher res HMD like the Reverb. Then you can see what you’re paying for. The equation is the same for a monitor. Instead of running 1080p at 4x SS, just get a 4K display.

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I agree with you but I’ll state it in a different way. Yes VR is immersive absolutely. That part is pretty incredible. It’s just like being there. But you’re wearing a scuba mask and everything is pixelated and blurry.

The potential is there but it’s not good enough for me to bite. I would have the same reaction as you and end up returning it. It’s possible with top end hardware today to get totally good performance on a monitor. It’s not possible with VR, even the strongest rigs struggle with it in DCS and I don’t really have the patience for that.

Someday this will be $299.... I’ll wait.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/solrogers/2019/06/25/how-much-would-you-pay-for-2020-vision-in-vr/#5f8a0f0f6dde

 

Bably setup VR systems are like that. There's no truth in what you say when it comes to HDM's like the Reverb.

 

If you are going to continue to comment on this subject you should first go and get a clue.

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Lol, DCS is a video game regardless of your input devices. Strapping something to your face makes you no less a gamer than someone who doesn't. The truth is that you are playing war while people are actually fighting and dying in Syria and other parts of the world, and our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives in these aircraft so that we could sit comfortably in our living rooms surrounded by luxury goods and play on our computers.

Every sim community is like this - people insisting on the legitimacy of their experience and refusing to believe that they would stoop so low as to play a video game.

Not knowing the difference between a game to pass time and a simulator which simulates something where there is a equivalent in real life: check.

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Bably setup VR systems are like that. There's no truth in what you say when it comes to HDM's like the Reverb.

 

If you are going to continue to comment on this subject you should first go and get a clue.

For you the Reverb is good enough, to others like Wali763 it’s not and he sent it back for being too blurry even at 2160p. I’m in the camp that really can’t tolerate blurriness or poor performance. When that’s much better VR could be worth looking at IMO. But not now.

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For you the Reverb is good enough, to others like Wali763 it’s not and he sent it back for being too blurry even at 2160p. I’m in the camp that really can’t tolerate blurriness or poor performance. When that’s much better VR could be worth looking at IMO. But not now.

 

There’s no blur when setup correctly.

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Lol, DCS is a video game regardless of your input devices. Strapping something to your face makes you no less a gamer than someone who doesn't. The truth is that you are playing war while people are actually fighting and dying in Syria and other parts of the world, and our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives in these aircraft so that we could sit comfortably in our living rooms surrounded by luxury goods and play on our computers.

Every sim community is like this - people insisting on the legitimacy of their experience and refusing to believe that they would stoop so low as to play a video game.

 

It’s a simulator, says so in the title. Games are in a different category.

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Lordy why do these threads talking about monitor or VR always end up like this...

Don B

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Lol, DCS is a video game regardless of your input devices. Strapping something to your face makes you no less a gamer than someone who doesn't. The truth is that you are playing war while people are actually fighting and dying in Syria and other parts of the world, and our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives in these aircraft so that we could sit comfortably in our living rooms surrounded by luxury goods and play on our computers.

Every sim community is like this - people insisting on the legitimacy of their experience and refusing to believe that they would stoop so low as to play a video game.

 

 

Whatever you say bub.

 

 

No I don't (Play war) I mainly like GA and some DCS just for the flight experience, carrier landings etc. I just enjoy flight simulators ( I have a motion cockpit) and find it thrilling. As for Halo. world of warcraft, and the like, I'd rather have a prostrate exam. IF you got but hurt because your a gamer, then sorry bub. If you have a basic setup at a desk with cheap Best Buy controls, than I can see how your setup would be like a game. That's not my setup. I own a simulator

 

 

 

What flight simulation has to do with the fighting men overseas is beyond me. That was an idiotic statement you made that has no relevance.


Edited by Wmacky
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Whatever you say bub.

 

 

No I don't (Play war) I mainly like GA and some DCS just for the flight experience, carrier landings etc. I just enjoy flight simulators ( I have a motion cockpit) and find it thrilling. As for Halo. world of warcraft, and the like, I'd rather have a prostrate exam. IF you got but hurt because your a gamer, then sorry bub.

 

 

 

What any of that has to do with the fighting men overseas is beyond me. That was an idiotic statement you made that has no relevance.

 

It's relevant because we are just playing a grown up version of children pointing toy guns at each other in their front yards. Just because we spent thousands of dollars on it doesn't mean that were not simply playing games in our living rooms. It's a simulator, yes. But it's also a video game. I'm not too insecure to admit that I play video games.

Modules: Wright Flyer, Spruce Goose, Voyager 1

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It's relevant because we are just playing a grown up version of children pointing toy guns at each other in their front yards. Just because we spent thousands of dollars on it doesn't mean that were not simply playing games in our living rooms. It's a simulator, yes. But it's also a video game. I'm not too insecure to admit that I play video games.

 

 

 

 

I stated I Do NOT do combat! Only the fight experiences


Edited by Wmacky
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Lordy why do these threads talking about monitor or VR always end up like this...

 

Ain't that the truth...

 

To each his own.

 

It's a good thing we're all different :)

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I'm not too insecure to admit that I play video games.

Me neither, no one is, quit projecting. It's a simulator. 1) Tries to talk about other peoples "insecurities" then 2) asking Google for assurance on this case: check.

You read on google so it must be true.

Did he really use Google to prove his point? lmao, my eyes. Please no, stop.

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Lordy why do these threads talking about monitor or VR always end up like this...

 

And here I am without any popcorn. :doh:

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People get all defensive about VR as if the discussion on some niche game... oh sorry SIM forum is going to determine its future. Niche games like this aren’t likely going to drive the development of high end HMDs. Commercial uses will and then it would trickle down to gaming. VR gaming itself will probably remain a small use. It is for now anyways.

i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Someone please kill this thread already.

:chair:

Don B

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Ok, fine. From the DCS home page:

Screenshot-20191020-174546.png

Not like they are selling it to people as a game to broaden the scale on potential buyers right? SAYING it‘s a game doesn‘t automatically make it a game fool. But why talk to people who are too idiotic to think for themselves?

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Lordy why do these threads talking about monitor or VR always end up like this...

 

Was thinkin just that. It’s why I don’t bother anymore.

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JUST CHOPPERS

 

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I put my wife in VR in the back of a Tomcat. Her verdict was keep it.

Just don't "put her" in Beat Saber, or you will suddenly be making schedules for PC use (or forced to buy an Oculus Quest ;-) )

I am not going to invest in any VR anytime soon, unless i can try different setups over a period of a week or so to get a decent feel.

Arrange to try Valve Index. It's stupidly comfortable compared to other headsets (Vive + Deluxe audio strap, Rift CV1, Pimax 5k+, WMR flavours...)

I'll be buying the Steam Index controllers, hoping that DCS will support the fingers for the touch cockpits (I am NOT holding my breath for that) and converting the Cosmos to station tracking.

The Cosmos and Index will cost another $900.

Hmmm... IDK if you're aware, but you can get the Index HMD and use it with your old basestations, it works flawlessly. I upgraded from OG Vive to Index using my 1.0 stations. ALSO after a horrible support experience from HTC (vive broke 3 weeks in and went to another country for repairs for a month without a trace, and they messed return address). So a perk to index upgrade was finally going to sever all ties with HTC :P

The Titan is the better card, simply because it has so much VRAM, which VR can use. Too, it's base clock is as high as most overclocked 2080tis.

Unpopular opinion: the current RTXs aren't worth the price. And I have yet to see a game to use up my 1080Ti VRAM. Certainly DCS is not one of them. I would stick to 1080Ti until the 7nm Nvidia cards come out. Until the next gen engine comes to DCS, we're basically CPU-bound.

 

I seriously cringe when people call it a game. Angry Birds is a game.

And it has a VR version :-)

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