VR or TrackIr?

[BigDuke6ixx]

TrackIR with a nice high resolution and refresh rate display.

 

VR isn't there yet and needs a resolution bump.

 

This statement is no longer true.

[Shimmergloom667]

I received my Rift S yesterday and will probably send it back. My 21:9 1440p monitor with Track IR is just miles ahead in terms of visual clarity. That just cant be trumped by VR yet, though it is really a bit of a "wow" moment when you first use it. That wears off pretty quickly, though (at least for me).

[wormeaten]

TrackIR? NOOOO!!! Some Fretrack solution? Hell YES!

Head tracking is a gamechanger, especially in flight sims. But TrackIR is highly overpriced. It is more expensive than Lenovo Explorer WMR HMD.

 

Solution based on Freetrack, which is BTW build in DCS and work perfectly, is based on freeware and you can build one for just 10% of the TrackIR price.

 

If I have to pay 150$ for something like that than WMR is definitely a better choice.

[dburne]

TrackIR? NOOOO!!! Some Fretrack solution? Hell YES!

Head tracking is a gamechanger, especially in flight sims. But TrackIR is highly overpriced. It is more expensive than Lenovo Explorer WMR HMD.

 

Solution based on Freetrack, which is BTW build in DCS and work perfectly, is based on freeware and you can build one for just 10% of the TrackIR price.

 

If I have to pay 150$ for something like that than WMR is definitely a better choice.

 

WMR and Track IR are two way separate things.

 

If staying with monitor, the decision should be between paying more for an out of the box solution with a long reputation for working quite nicely ie Track IR, or paying less for a solution that might take some more fiddling with to get it working like one would like, but many have done and are happy with.

 

IMHO a decision one may face at some point in their gaming, is whether to stick with a higher resolution monitor or go with VR for the way more immersive experience at the cost of resolution. They all have pretty much 1:1 tracking, and many models now to choose from with varying resolutions.

[DerekSpeare]

VR.

 

 

^ VR ^

 

 

With screens you are an observer of the simulated world, watching your character act on the world and it acting on him...

 

 

In VR you are a participant in the world where you act on it and it acts on you. That is the essence of the distinction and the essence of immersion.

[Wali763]

I received my Rift S yesterday and will probably send it back. My 21:9 1440p monitor with Track IR is just miles ahead in terms of visual clarity. That just cant be trumped by VR yet, though it is really a bit of a "wow" moment when you first use it. That wears off pretty quickly, though (at least for me).

 

 

When I tested the Rift S I thought the same and send it back.

 

 

Still I cant let go of VR and if it werent not for some obstacles would have a Reverb already. But that still would be for testing purposes, since im not sure, if VR is for me.

 

 

Lately I changed to no-labels in BFM and its VERY hard to find the other aircraft, once youve lost it, while looking briefly at some gauges. Even if you have Jester in the backseat helping you. I just cant believe anyone in VR is capable to do decent BFM without labels. Even on my 1440p-monitor its hard to judge the directon the other aircraft is aiming. But turning on the labels (anlong with the looks of the ground, which is actually nice, but still far from realistic) would kill any immersion Id get in VR....

 

 

Still I remember getting shot out of the sky above Shiraz and falling to the ground felt absolutly real!

 

 

I guess, in some parts you loose, in some parts you will gain. Its up to you, which parts are more important for you. But if its BFM or spotting tiny targets on the ground, Im pretty sure VR wont do...

[BigDuke6ixx]

I guess, in some parts you loose, in some parts you will gain. Its up to you, which parts are more important for you. But if its BFM or spotting tiny targets on the ground, Im pretty sure VR wont do...

 

VR zoom works fine.

[lobo]

But if its BFM or spotting tiny targets on the ground, Im pretty sure VR wont do...

 

It does.

[eaglecash867]

Yup. BFM is just fine in the Reverb, along with spotting ground targets.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Yup. BFM is just fine in the Reverb, along with spotting ground targets.

 

Yep, the argument about poor resolution has gone now that the Reverb is here.

[Harlikwin]

Yup. BFM is just fine in the Reverb, along with spotting ground targets.

 

I'm sure its a bit better on a monitor, especially the higher res ones. But yes, the Reverb with the new zoom is working fine for spotting ground targets. I still have trouble spotting air targets, but thats probably just me.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

I received my Rift S yesterday and will probably send it back. My 21:9 1440p monitor with Track IR is just miles ahead in terms of visual clarity. That just cant be trumped by VR yet, though it is really a bit of a "wow" moment when you first use it. That wears off pretty quickly, though (at least for me).

did you try Huey?

[Wali763]

I'm sure its a bit better on a monitor, especially the higher res ones. But yes, the Reverb with the new zoom is working fine for spotting ground targets. I still have trouble spotting air targets, but thats probably just me.

 

Thx for supporting me. I did not mean to say, you cannot do BFM in VR. But its probably harder and less effective then on a monitor.

 

Its kind of like this: I now played for about one week "Call of Duty mobile" on my 5,5 inch smartphone and it was fun. Until I tried it on PC via a Android-Emulator and as good as you play on the smartphone, every decent player on a PC just OWNES you! In my first MP-game up to 50pts I made 40 pts for my team and just because I ran out of ammo a few times and had to die.... Only then I understood, why some players would kill me within a second with no chance at all. I guess most of them sat in front of a PC, where its soo much easier to get a headshot! And thats why I quit COD yesterday!

 

I think it will be kind of the same in BFM monitor vs VR.

 

But Ill will find out soon, because I ordered a Reverb earlier today and hopefully will find out next week. Or maybe already this week! So my chances of getting BFM-king one day, will only be intact, if I keep my TrackIR, which Ill certainly do. :megalol:

[fastbikkel]

I have never tried Track IR before, but im leaning towards that for now.

Reason :

I tried the oculus and no matter how hard i try to set it up, it keeps blocking my nose giving me a very unpleasant ride.

The sheer weight of the thing bothers me, it leans on my nose and i have to breathe through my mouth the whole time.

 

 

Maybe there is a way to set it up so it does not bother me, but knowing the issues i have with breathing i doubt i will ever find a good fit with the current oculus.

 

 

I am not going to invest in any VR anytime soon, unless i can try different setups over a period of a week or so to get a decent feel.

[dburne]

I have never tried Track IR before, but im leaning towards that for now.

Reason :

I tried the oculus and no matter how hard i try to set it up, it keeps blocking my nose giving me a very unpleasant ride.

The sheer weight of the thing bothers me, it leans on my nose and i have to breathe through my mouth the whole time.

 

 

Maybe there is a way to set it up so it does not bother me, but knowing the issues i have with breathing i doubt i will ever find a good fit with the current oculus.

 

 

I am not going to invest in any VR anytime soon, unless i can try different setups over a period of a week or so to get a decent feel.

 

 

That seems a little odd, I have had the CV1 and now the Rift S and it never touches my nose. Sounds like maybe you did not have it adjusted proper to your head?

[Rocho]

As a former user of TrackIR for years, I recommend VR, despite its many drawbacks.

 

 

 

No more flat screen simulators for me (are you hearing me, Microsoft?).

[fastbikkel]

That seems a little odd, I have had the CV1 and now the Rift S and it never touches my nose. Sounds like maybe you did not have it adjusted proper to your head?

 

Let me emphasize the fact i have issues with my nose, more than other people. So anything that touches it can hamper my breathing, it takes little to bother me.

But yes, i hope that i can solve the VR thing by finding a right setup. It took me quite some time fitting it and it still did not fit comfortable.

And i do not want to risk spending a load of money until i can find a good way to put it on my head.

I am not sure shops are willing to lend me a kit to test it for a week or so.

 

 

But you say it never touches your nose? that sounds odd to me, because it leans/rests on my nose like glasses do.

[dburne]

Let me emphasize the fact i have issues with my nose, more than other people. So anything that touches it can hamper my breathing, it takes little to bother me.

But yes, i hope that i can solve the VR thing by finding a right setup. It took me quite some time fitting it and it still did not fit comfortable.

And i do not want to risk spending a load of money until i can find a good way to put it on my head.

I am not sure shops are willing to lend me a kit to test it for a week or so.

 

 

But you say it never touches your nose? that sounds odd to me, because it leans/rests on my nose like glasses do.

 

No the way I have mine adjusted it does not. If I lower it down that far to where it is, I lose some sweetspot in my Rift S.

[ignition22]

I played DCS a little many years ago. Then i got a Track IR and thought wow this is neat, probably added 50hrs or so to my total DCS playing time but eventually lost interest. Then I got VR and now have been playing regularly for years.

 

TrackIR is probably best if you just want to play DCS as a game, shoot the most things, be the best you can on multiplayer. If you just want to play a game that's cool, your allowed, different people want to do different things.

 

VR is best if you want to play a simulation, feel like your as close to the real pilot flying the real plane as you can be. When i was a kid i always dreamed of flying these planes and VR is the closest thing to the real experience, looking at a moving picture in a frame doesn't compare.

 

Also a few people in here talking about VR performance, i play on a 1070 mini card with often terrible frame rate, in my low res CV1 and still play all the campaigns. I don't find it to be a big deal tbh, still totally amazes me every time i jump in.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Yeah, trackir is like operating a drone but with vr you’re in the cockpit and flying.

[Oldguy]

I was just wondering If TrackIR would be good enough for me or should I go all out and get a VR set?

 

There is a major difference between the two in that the Track IR view and your eyes are moving in opposite directions, while in VR, your eyes and your view move in the same direction.

 

For example, to move your point of view in TIR to the lower right cockpit panel, you have to turn your head that way, i.e. down and to the right. In the meantime, your monitor, which you are using to see the lower right cockpit panel, remains where it was, but is now being seen through your left, upper peripheral vision.

 

If the movement required to see an on-screen TIR object is relatively small, then it will not be much of a strain. If you wear glasses, the TIR problem is exacerbated, because glasses don't particularly work well when you look through the edges of their lenses.

 

I can tell you this: TIR is a pointing device, like a joystick button. In VR, conversely, you look where you turn your head to.

 

However, VR is also a stunningly transformational device. These two devices aren't even close in terms of impact on the flight simulator experience.

 

Once you taste good VR, and it is a very expensive taste, you cannot go back.

 

Sadly, the issue with VR is expense. Lots of expense. To be able to read small text, like gauges, text strings, etc. clearly, you will likely need higher resolution than the original VR HMDs offered. So you will have to buy the better HMDs with higher resolution panels.

 

I tossed my TIR once I discovered VR. I use progressive lenses and the TIR made the turn-head-right-look-left-at-monitor experience unworkable.

 

At first, I tried the original Vive, but after the initial euphoria of experiencing VR flight for the first time, I realized that I couldn't read gauges, see small aircraft or read text strings, like the written communication with ATC, etc. That was sooo disappointing. VR in DCS without legible text is simply not usable.

 

I moved to the Vive Pro, and it was just enough better, just that wee bit higher in resolution, that on-screen text finally became clear and usable. For me, the Pro's resolution is the lowest that can do so. I'll buy the higher resolution Cosmos next, as soon as my piggy bank refills.

 

In VR, the value of HMD Panel Resolution is everything.

 

With a high resolution HMD comes the need for a really strong PC, which is also expensive. My 1080ti works for now, and my CPU is up to the task, too, but they have very little room for a good margin of error. I do not believe that they will be able to push the Cosmos

 

I'll be buying the Steam Index controllers, hoping that DCS will support the fingers for the touch cockpits (I am NOT holding my breath for that) and converting the Cosmos to station tracking.

 

See if you can find someone who will let you try their VR before you buy into that hardware eco-system. The industry is evolving rapidly, and you have to spend, and keep spending, relatively big money to keep up. The original Vive, which is still good, set me back about $1200. The Pro added another $700. The Cosmos and Index will cost another $900.

 

I will keep upgrading hardware, because the Cosmos will probably break my 1080ti. I will likely just convert my PC to a game one, with a 9700K CPU and OC it and the 2080ti (or RTX Titan) to stay up. The Titan is the better card, simply because it has so much VRAM, which VR can use. Too, it's base clock is as high as most overclocked 2080tis.

 

That's another $5k easily.

 

However, once you sit in the surprisingly small cockpit of your favorite aircraft and feel those cockpit sides squeezing your shoulders tightly as the plane jiggles and wobbles down the runway for your first VR takeoff, banking hard and looking down over your virtual shoulder and being thrilled at the vertigo-inducing sight of treetops rushing by just mere virtual feet away, you'll find the money. Yep, you'll find the money.

 

To me, it's simply worth every single penny. Your mileage may vary.

[BigDuke6ixx]

VR really isn’t that expensive. Also, VR zoom means you can view all instruments in high fidelity. 4K monitor users just love to slag off vr because they suffer from buyers’ remorse.

[eaglecash867]

VR really isn’t that expensive. Also, VR zoom means you can view all instruments in high fidelity. 4K monitor users just love to slag off vr because they suffer from buyers’ remorse.

 

Yup, the "expense" is just a myth when it comes down to it. Along with the now completely disproven myth that higher resolution headsets require more horsepower to run. They actually require less, because you're not wasting a bunch of clock cycles by upconverting and downconverting every frame to make it look good.

[dburne]

Yup, the "expense" is just a myth when it comes down to it. Along with the now completely disproven myth that higher resolution headsets require more horsepower to run. They actually require less, because you're not wasting a bunch of clock cycles by upconverting and downconverting every frame to make it look good.

 

The expense has certainly come down since the original Vive and Rift releases.

I paid a lot more for my Rift CV1 when I got it in Jan 2017.

[eaglecash867]

The expense has certainly come down since the original Vive and Rift releases.

I paid a lot more for my Rift CV1 when I got it in Jan 2017.

 

I paid about 50 bucks more than I paid for the CV1 in March of 2016 for my Reverb. But the improvements are a lot more than 50 bucks worth. From everything I have seen with it so far, I could probably even run it on a lesser rig than what I have now, and what I have now needed help from shader mods and lower MSAA settings to run the CV1 acceptably. No such needs with the Reverb. No shader mods, and I'm able to run 4X MSAA now, without a single hardware upgrade. Well, except for the HMD.