Patch 1.13 Requested Features/Fixes List (*Merged)

[S77th-GOYA]

Old, old news.

 

It has all been talked about so many times it became monotonous.

 

After nearly two years, I have lost any hope that ED will fix their code.

[Pilotasso]

i dont think it is quite as simple as you say pilot. we did some tests with the am-9 on the 15 and the results were not conclusive.

 

I mean the real thing...but in LOMAC the only thing that the 9 will show you is that you dont have to dump flares, you just have to run away from it.

[RvEYoda]

At what altitude? It seems correct for an AIM-120A, AIM-120C may have had some propellant improvements to make it a touch longer - at low altitudes (13000' or so). At higher altitudes Rtr should be longer, esp. considering that you can't pull as many g's if you want to keep your speed and then accelerate.

 

Edit: Just saw your edit. OF is indeed better, though it has its quirks too if its still using the old missile FM code. I thought they patched that up a little though.

 

I dont know, if you install the game and check the documentations folder i am sure you will find something useful about this. I tried Allied Force but didnt like the missile behaviour at all. It seems like those missiles loose to much energy by just gliding. Almost like Airbrake amraam :). In fact the AF missiles didnt seem to have any real G limit, but i might be wrong there. in OF at least they have to turn....not teleport :)=

[GGTharos]

I'm not going to bother installing OF; I don't care enough to play it nor to make too many comparisons. While it might have a superior model, I'm trying to stay away from the 'make it like OF' bandwagon.

[UWBuRn]

That sounds like the RL experience with that series of missiles actually ... though the source is a touch iffy. :)

 

I hardly believe that 4 (not launched toghether, but in sequence, one after the previous was clearly trashed) missiles coming in from 10 o'clock below (look up-shoot up situation, so no ground clutter) will leave the target untouched. :music_whistling:

 

Anyway, to better argument what i'm saying, watch this (sorry for stealing you're idea, Yoda):

http://www.thestormbringers.com/Video/Super%20Chaffs.wmv

 

That's just chaffing, altitude is 6000 m (20000 ft), i'm slightly diving only to avoid being hit by unguided rockets getting too close.

 

:joystick:

[GGTharos]

You don't need to believe it ... something like 1 out of 20 R-27's got anywhere near enough its target to damage it.

[monotwix]

Hard to believe it has been two years - in three years time it will be five years.

Hard to believe indeed but arithmetically correct, but what seems to be uncertainty is whether the missile effectiveness setting set to the maximum in the options menu would produce any better results?

[UWBuRn]

You don't need to believe it ... something like 1 out of 20 R-27's got anywhere near enough its target to damage it.

 

I was referring in RL. :)

[RvEYoda]

I'm not going to bother installing OF; I don't care enough to play it nor to make too many comparisons. While it might have a superior model, I'm trying to stay away from the 'make it like OF' bandwagon.

 

 

its a very good bandwagon.

makes the missiles have a theoretical chance of flying (& hitting non-maneuvering target) at their maximum range :)

[monotwix]

No - it won't.

What would it do?

[RvEYoda]

I hardly believe that 4 (not launched toghether, but in sequence, one after the previous was clearly trashed) missiles coming in from 10 o'clock below (look up-shoot up situation, so no ground clutter) will leave the target untouched. :music_whistling:

 

Anyway, to better argument what i'm saying, watch this (sorry for stealing you're idea, Yoda):

http://www.thestormbringers.com/Video/Super%20Chaffs.wmv

 

That's just chaffing, altitude is 6000 m (20000 ft), i'm slightly diving only to avoid being hit by unguided rockets getting too close.

 

:joystick:

 

love this video :D

 

the "nose-down" exploit also works against FC amraam, but you need a little more chaff :)

you can even keep flying straight and make sort of an oscillating nose-up-nose-down motion

while chaffing to break any radar missile ;)

[GGTharos]

So was I.

No comparison to your movie though ;) The bandits maneuvered.

 

I was referring in RL. :)

[vadIL]

I hardly believe that 4 (not launched toghether, but in sequence, one after the previous was clearly trashed) missiles coming in from 10 o'clock below (look up-shoot up situation, so no ground clutter) will leave the target untouched. :music_whistling:

 

Anyway, to better argument what i'm saying, watch this (sorry for stealing you're idea, Yoda):

http://www.thestormbringers.com/Video/Super%20Chaffs.wmv

 

That's just chaffing, altitude is 6000 m (20000 ft), i'm slightly diving only to avoid being hit by unguided rockets getting too close.

 

:joystick:

 

ROFL! :)

[monotwix]

make all missiles more effective, as the AI has better parameters than you, you would end up worsening your odds.

How about misslie effectiveness in the video and or MP?

[GGTharos]

It won't do much; it zeroes out the target drift, but that's not what's screwing the missiles up.

[RvEYoda]

just tested something.

If you want to hit a running target sealevel, and he is flying mach 1.22,

you need to get within 2.4 nm ^^

 

Amraam range 2.4 nm. Hooray

[vadIL]

Comon I want to hear somting from ED!

We need some community pressure!

We have alot of people that care more about fixing FC then the Black Shark..

It will take alot of time to release fast movers to BS.. Untill then please make this 1.3 patch! We so need it! Just give some time for us!

Personaly I dont care to pay for this patch! But make the patch!

[S77th-GOYA]

Comon I want to hear somting from ED!

 

Here, I'll save them the trouble:

 

"ED would like to release a patch for LO:FC but we are concentrating on other projects. We might make a patch after the release of Black Shark, but there are no promises."

[RvEYoda]

yup, so we will have answer summer 2009 ;)

[IvanK]

And what aeroplanes do you know Yoda in RL that can fly even reach Mach 1.22 at Sea Level ? :)

 

Put those numbers into Minizap and the result is quite similar.

[RedTiger]

So was I.

No comparison to your movie though ;) The bandits maneuvered.

 

The Eritrean war? If so, you're a better man than most by at least saying the source is "iffy".

 

EDIT: If it ISN'T Eritrean, please, don't leave us in the dark. :)

[GGTharos]

Nope, that's the one. There's a lot of blahblah and I'm sure the -numbers- are real, but there's zero circumstances mentioned.

Some people mention that maintenance was poor, or the opposition was too well trained, but then - why didn't the R-73's go stupid too? :D

Though IIRC the R-73's in that one had a 0.3pk or so ...

 

In any case. Iffy! It just throws out some numbers with no explanation. Regardless, this is the class of weapon that you'd be facing, and well-maintained ones apparently were entirely capable of doing the vietnam dumb-drop. I'll uh .. claim I just made that up though :)

[Pilotasso]

I hardly believe that 4 (not launched toghether, but in sequence, one after the previous was clearly trashed) missiles coming in from 10 o'clock below (look up-shoot up situation, so no ground clutter) will leave the target untouched. :music_whistling:

 

Anyway, to better argument what i'm saying, watch this (sorry for stealing you're idea, Yoda):

http://www.thestormbringers.com/Video/Super%20Chaffs.wmv

 

That's just chaffing, altitude is 6000 m (20000 ft), i'm slightly diving only to avoid being hit by unguided rockets getting too close.

 

:joystick:

 

Obviously something wrong there too. Aspect has no influence in noise factor wich is wrong and I think cant be fixed without a major rework of the code as explained before. Whats left to do is adjust chaff and clutter sensitivity but you can bet that R-27's are still going to miss anyway. The worst problem about them is not the missile itself. Is the fact that the target breaks your radar lock often. This is IMHO the dominant factor online wich causes an R-27 to miss. If you take in account the most engagements, you cant afford to use all your chaff reserve for EVERY MISSILES LAUNCHED AT YO AT THE SAME TIME like demonstrated here, but rather, you have to save it, or happen not to have them at all, and the missiles will keep missing. If timed properly, by the time you fire your 3rd or 4rth missile, any target is likely to have depleted his countermeasure supply. Still people complain they have spent all their missiles in thin air to no avail.

 

Why this happens?

 

Spamming missiles, wich is so condemned is actualy counterproductive and responsible for many misses.

 

All the videos presented here have something in common. They all portray massive spamming. For all Examples of engagements shown here there is no carefull BVR work untill merge, otherwise a fraction of those missiles would sufice to down the target.

 

Again other factors but the missiles are also at work here. It is extremely hard to plan your BVR engagements with a burn through threshold of 13 miles.

 

BEcause of the nature of SARH concept, the moment chaff seases to be so efficient people will stop coming so close to each others and the missiles will miss for other factors like notching and going defensive outside the NEZ.

 

So in a final analysis, chaff and noise is wrong but I think its only one factor among many that affecks PK, including player behaviour and thus cant be blamed alone. You will still complain about it later youll see (probably blaim the radar or a coward target that does not dare make a stand but turn tail and run after launching his ARH missiles).

[169th_TomAce]

RAF server is wildely abused by everybody. I dont know what triggers everybody's savagery there but they behave completely when they swich to other servers.

 

I know why cause 3Sqn, RVE, 504th, 104th, Jabog and other "on the level" squads won't put up with it and kick then ban people from their servers for such continued acts.

 

For the time being we have to ban together to stamp out anyone using this crap so the rest of us can enjoy the sim we love and hope ED makes the patch even if we have to pay for it as I know most of us won't care JUST FIX IT plz.

[UWBuRn]

About Etipioan-Eritrean war info are contradictory: some source reportes more than one kill with R-27R, IIRC seven, most of them using two R-27R. But i agree, nothing sure about that.

 

Don't wanna turn this in a topic about R-27 but this can be extended to other missiles too: even in their weaknesses missiles modelling require some tweaking, otherwise there will be always the tendency to exploit thoose flaws and HL you can see this: some people doesn't even break facing SARHs.

 

Anyway the missiles effectiveness problem has several causes, as a too optimistic model for the RWR and the fact that in a simulation you can learn from your own errors and if you get shot down you can just hit recover. :)

 

In such this scenario, well, imho, tweaking the missiles should help improving things at least in one direction: making the fights a little more predictable and more regoulated, so, if you get in BAD tactical situations, you die, without forcing the enemy to do ninja maneuvers to get you. I don't know how accurate is the actual modelling for this or that missile, as i never had a chance to fire a R-27 or an AIM-7 (if you ask me, i would bet heavily thats not accurate :D) but i'm deeply convinced that making missile more effective when proper tactics (and with this i mean something close to RL tactics) to evade them aren't employed, would improve in general the "accuracy" of combat. From my point of view, at the moment is like tossing dice. :(