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Xtal first impressions

stefew1966

By stefew1966
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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Steam and DCS settings and FPS

 

Thanks for your review!

 

Can you post a screenshot of your settings in DCS and steamvr and then post what fps your getting in a few instant action missions?

 

Hey Rage,

I will get you that ASAP. Stay tuned.

 

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Pics

 

Stefew, pics please. I have got to see a 6K headset up close. TY

 

My friend Nick and I did take some "through the lens" pics and will be posting them soon along with a couple videos.

 

And the VRGineers call their headset a 5K headset. Same resolution as the Pimax 5K. But the clarity is much better due to native resolution with no upscale and less magnification needed with the better lenses as well.

 

Cheers

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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Icebeat

Icebeat

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My friend Nick and I did take some "through the lens" pics and will be posting them soon along with a couple videos.

 

And the VRGineers call their headset a 5K headset. Same resolution as the Pimax 5K. But the clarity is much better due to native resolution with no upscale and less magnification needed with the better lenses as well.

 

Cheers

Stef

 

the 5K doesn't have upscale, it is the 8K, the better clarity comes from the use of custom aspheric lenses and custom OLED panels.

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Good day folks,

Just a short update. Played around in SteamVR settings last night and noticed I was oversampling at 150% when I reported 35 FPS. Once I dialed it back to 100%, with no loss in graphics goodness, I was at 70 FPS. Sweet!

 

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Blurry center

 

Hello again. Do you have any update on your point about the centre being a bit blurry? Was it he’d position that you have since fixed? I’m now seriously considering this but for the price it needs to be pretty close to perfect.

 

Thanks for the really helpful feedback so far.

 

Hi,

So I took a look at my other VR headsets and tried the same thing. While maintaining head position on a fixed point I looked with my eyes around the full lens. Far left, right, up and down. I noticed the same thing. It was always blurry. So this is totally normal. I had never noticed before because, let's face it, the consumer grade VR headsets are not as clear. And we tend to move our heads naturally when wearing a headset. Instead of looking around with our eyes when not wearing a headset. Something akin to looking at your rear-view mirror when driving a car. Your head is facing forward and you just take a peak at the mirror by just moving your eyes.

 

I think with the Xtal being so clear I noticed it more because the center of the lens is perfect.

 

So the answer is that it was behaving as expected. I just didn't know that it was. If I had to compare that behavior to something similar, it would be a pair of progressive glasses. There is a part of it that is clear in the middle. The rest of the lens is blurry. And this is by design, or at least it's a limitation of optics.

 

Even after using VR goggles for years I learn something new all the time. Pardon my ignorance.

 

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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dburne

dburne

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Eye tracking with foveated rendering will be required to clear up the periphery.

Don B

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Baldrick33

Baldrick33

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So the answer is that it was behaving as expected. I just didn't know that it was. If I had to compare that behavior to something similar, it would be a pair of progressive glasses. There is a part of it that is clear in the middle. The rest of the lens is blurry. And this is by design, or at least it's a limitation of optics.
Not all optics are equal! For example the Index has the best optics of any headset I have tried and is very consistent from centre to edge. Whereas the Reverb sounds similar to the Xtal as it has a higher resolution panel than the Index and better clarity in the centre but noticeable degradation to the edges.

 

I think it is rather subjective if this is an issue or not. Certainly if you are looking for it and hold a gaze at an object while moving your head you can see it get more blurry. In normal use I tend to move my head rather than my eyes, this may just be from adjusting to these headsets though and there relatively low FOV and sweetspots.

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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Harlikwin

Harlikwin

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Well, I certainly think as headsets get "better" we will see more issues like this. Center FOV will be great, but peripheral will be blurry. As is the current case with the Reverb and I guess the Xtal too. Part of the solution can be better optics design ala Index, but there are always tradeoffs.

 

I say we just skip over this and get the matrix plugs fitted now :)

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Baldrick33

Baldrick33

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Well, I certainly think as headsets get "better" we will see more issues like this. Center FOV will be great, but peripheral will be blurry. As is the current case with the Reverb and I guess the Xtal too. Part of the solution can be better optics design ala Index, but there are always tradeoffs.
It would be interesting to see an Index with a 2160x2160 per eye panel though!

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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wormeaten

wormeaten

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Better panels and peripheral blurriness will be more noticeable more because of better clarity in the center than because of imperfections in the lenses.

Even normal eye when you look with your eye on the side is not that perfectly clear as it is when you look in the center. Anyway, normal peripheral vision is just to take your attention on some movement and then your reflex is to move your head in that direction to focus on that.

 

Foveated rendering will not fix that. Its purpose is to save hardware resources by reducing rendering quality what is making a picture more blurrier on that location. Lenses are fixed position and if there is any degradation in clarity on edges it will always be the same no matter on eye-tracking and foveated rendering.

In the future mayor, game changer could be varifocal rendering which will simulate natural focusing on near and far objects what will further increase clarity but still mostly in the center. Right now all VR rendering full picture eaqully.

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Baldrick33

Baldrick33

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Better panels and peripheral blurriness will be more noticeable more because of better clarity in the center than because of imperfections in the lenses.
Not sure I follow. The Index for example has much higher center clarity than a CV1 but also better center to edge consistency thanks to better optics. There seems scope for ever more improvements in panels and optics, I think it just comes down to computer power and lens costs.

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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wormeaten

wormeaten

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Not sure I follow. The Index for example has much higher center clarity than a CV1 but also better center to edge consistency thanks to better optics. There seems scope for ever more improvements in panels and optics, I think it just comes down to computer power and lens costs.

Talking about edge blurriness in general. Not comparing lenses or size of the sweet spot. Point is part of that blurred edge is in enhanced clarity.

 

Lets put it in numbers for better understanding. Imagine that is possible to measure clarity ( what is not ) so we got the same lens with the degradation of clarity to the edges by 25%. HMD1 have clarity 20 in the center. On edges, degradation is 25%=5 of what is 20-5=15. With HMD2 we have the double number of pixels so clarity is 40, degradation is 10 what is 40-10=30.

 

Conclusion even on the edges HMD2 is still twice as better but this degradation is also twice as bigger so it is more noticeable even when overall quality is better than on HMD1.


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Baldrick33

Baldrick33

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Talking about edge blurriness in general. Not comparing lenses or size of the sweet spot. Point is part of that blurred edge is in enhanced clarity.

 

Lets put it in numbers for better understanding. Imagine that is possible to measure clarity ( what is not ) so we got the same lens with the degradation of clarity to the edges by 25%. HMD1 have clarity 20 in the center. On edges, degradation is 25%=5 of what is 20-5=15. With HMD2 we have the double number of pixels so clarity is 40, degradation is 10 what is 40-10=30.

 

Conclusion even on the edges HMD2 is still twice as better but this degradation is also twice as bigger so it is more noticeable even when overall quality is better than on HMD1.

In rough numbers for an example I would say the Index is twice the clarity of a CV1 with less degradation. So I don't think a generic % works.

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Pics

 

Stefew, .... if you can, pics would be much appreciated. I mean no offense, nor am I trying to be a dick, but it's like someone saying they own a Lamborghini Centenario tucked away in their garage. Without the pics, hard to believe it. We need plenty of picks and far more details on a 6K headset.

 

Hi Aurelius,

I'm in the process of taking pics. Problem is, they look like crap. So I have been experimenting with cameras and cell phone cameras to try and get the best pics I can.

 

Stay tuned.

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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About optics for the Xtal

 

Hey all,

I exchanged some emails with my optometrist about the Xtal peripheral blur as I was very curious about why that happens.

 

He said it was probably due to something called "induced myopic or hyperopic peripheral blur".

 

Also, the Xtal has a knob on each side to vary the diopter. When I mess with that, I can get the blurry areas clear at the cost of the center now being blurry. Keep in mind that the diopter adjustment is used for people wearing glasses, not to fix that peripheral blur. It probably doesn't help with severe myopia or hyperopia but it probably is useful for mild cases of that. I don't personally need it.

 

I don't know if this kind of info is useful for anybody but I find it very interesting.

 

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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stefew1966

stefew1966

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Warning lights

 

If you have the f-14 can you read the warning lights on the right side console?

With the reverb they cant be read but are almost legible.

 

Hey Gun Jam,

Those darn warnings are so small! I cannot read them upright, I have to be inches away to read them or be zoomed in. Even the Xtal has its limits I guess.

 

Stef

I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog, TM TPR pedals, TrackIR, projector, Odyssey, Xtal, custom flight chair, Proflight Trainer Puma.

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Harlikwin

Harlikwin

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From Sebastian MRTV review

 

rev.jpg

 

giphy.gif

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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