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VR Joystick/Throttle


surfcandy
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New to the VR side of things and was wondering if alot of people use the flight stick (joystick) and throttle if the aircraft has one that responds to the touch controller's grip on the stick making a joystick/throttle setup unnecessary. Or does it really?

 

I tend to prefer a regular joystick control since it seems more fine tuned and natural while the built in VR stick/throttle control seems over sensitive with oversteering.

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I tried that with X-Plane but I disliked the idea.

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Yeah I have been flying in VR only now since Jan 2017, and I don't see my hardware controllers going away any time soon. Love all my buttons, hats, and axis. HOTAS concept is great for VR.

 

Just did a manual cold start on carrier in the Hornet, along with taxi to catapult, launch ,fly around a bit and landed again on carrier without taking my VR headset off one time. It was awesomeness.

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Virtual controllers absolutely suck. BTDT.

 

As many others have pointed, buttons can't really be done, and there is no real precision with your hand floating there. It sorta works in xplane, but it most sucks there, I don't even want to imagine it in DCS.

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Strangely there does appear to be a subset of users for whom pressing buttons has become the most important element. Most of them have rejected VR because it masks their beloved buttons but some now obsess over the idea of somehow integrating physical buttons with the VR cockpit.

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I use my TM Warthog. Why anyone would want to use VR controllers like Touch is utterly beyond me.
I agree, the great thing about flight and race sims is the controllers we have are so close to the real thing compared with pretty much any other genre. Replacing them with controls that are nothing like the real thing just seems bizarre to me!

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Strangely there does appear to be a subset of users for whom pressing buttons has become the most important element. Most of them have rejected VR because it masks their beloved buttons but some now obsess over the idea of somehow integrating physical buttons with the VR cockpit.

 

Its not that. I use VR exlusively and have a "virtual" pit. But it makes zero sense to replace a physical controller that provides the proper haptic feedback with something that does none of that. Thats the issue with virtual controllers. In an airplane the stick provides you feedback, and there is this mind/physical relationship with controllers, so when I look at the F18 stick in VR, and then push the big red button on my physical stick, that "feels" right or at least more right than when I had an F16 stick. And way more right than having some weird floating controller in my lap that I get no physical feedback from, plus I can't push any of the "correct" buttons on. This is even a larger issue with throttles given how many commands many have mapped to them.

 

It "works" in Xplane, since for GA you have radio switch and maybe a trimmer or whatever on the stick that you can map to the controller, but it still feels weird.

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Its not that. I use VR exlusively and have a "virtual" pit. But it makes zero sense to replace a physical controller that provides the proper haptic feedback with something that does none of that. Thats the issue with virtual controllers. In an airplane the stick provides you feedback, and there is this mind/physical relationship with controllers, so when I look at the F18 stick in VR, and then push the big red button on my physical stick, that "feels" right or at least more right than when I had an F16 stick. And way more right than having some weird floating controller in my lap that I get no physical feedback from, plus I can't push any of the "correct" buttons on. This is even a larger issue with throttles given how many commands many have mapped to them.

 

It "works" in Xplane, since for GA you have radio switch and maybe a trimmer or whatever on the stick that you can map to the controller, but it still feels weird.

 

Indeed. I fly warbirds and have a scale Spitfire simpit. The mix of VR and physical controls works really well with a simple cockpit like the Spit. Reaching out for the gear lever or the flap switch and finding them 'right there' is great. Would be sweet to see some virtual hands following my movements :music_whistling:

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In a real cockpit, you're usually doing most things by touch anyway, so having buttons in your virtual pit is more true-to-life.

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Strangely there does appear to be a subset of users for whom pressing buttons has become the most important element. Most of them have rejected VR because it masks their beloved buttons but some now obsess over the idea of somehow integrating physical buttons with the VR cockpit.

 

:lol: Immersion is beyond visually seeing things my friend. Immersion is the full interaction both visually and physically. VR only visually pulls you in... grab that track ball mouse and bam, immersion broken. Simpit and button mashers with HOTAS have the physical immersion - those two need to be combined in a meaningful and efficient way; captogloves, etc.

 

The HMDs are only a piece of the VR solution. But much like your response up at the top

Why anyone would want to use VR controllers like Touch is utterly beyond me.
you have a very difficult time understanding people who do not share your same views, which is unfortunate.
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In a real cockpit, you're usually doing most things by touch anyway, so having buttons in your virtual pit is more true-to-life.

 

Yes, in the future I see some sort of hybrid pits being the "coolest" of the cool. In the meantime since I fly multiple aircraft, I've been trying to use "general" controls as much as possible and move them around to where they roughly are in the pit. For example gear lollipos tend to be just forward of the throttle, except for the damn viggen...

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:lol: Immersion is beyond visually seeing things my friend. Immersion is the full interaction both visually and physically. VR only visually pulls you in... grab that track ball mouse and bam, immersion broken. Simpit and button mashers with HOTAS have the physical immersion - those two need to be combined in a meaningful and efficient way; captogloves, etc.

 

For you maybe.

 

The HMDs are only a piece of the VR solution. But much like your response up at the top you have a very difficult time understanding people who do not share your same views, which is unfortunate.

 

Yeah, well, groping for a VR controller is about as immersion breaking as it gets. I find using VoiceAttack and head controlled mouse works very well.

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I find using VoiceAttack and head controlled mouse works very well.

 

I don't think anyone would say it does not work - it does, but its not immersive. Much like sitting in my simpit and seeing a wall behind my monitor ruins mine. Pros and cons.

 

And to your initial point about folks being obsessed with buttons... believe it or not its the largest part about flying; Pilots rarely sit and do nothing - they are frequently monitoring things, cycling pages, etc. That requires a physical interaction (in real life) and it's incredibly important to the future of VR, especially in this genre. I don't care about all of the buttons i've created... you give me the ability to interact with a virtual pit with my hands and I'm sold on VR. Workarounds don't cut it for me.

 

The reality, with regards to VR, is that using VA/trackball mouse/head mouse/whatever is a fine interim solution. There is huge desire/need (beyond just DCS) to better incorporate "touch simulation" into VR; Hand tracking, virtual interaction with the things around you, etc. without having to hold wands, grab a mouse or say a command.

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I find VR along with strategic use of voice attack highly immersive. Flying the F-14, which relegates much of the button flipping to Jester and leaves the pilot to concentrate on flying, is super immersive.

 

That being said I can see why some would prefer a physical cockpit for the tactile feel of button switch, but that's not for me. However, if I did get into civilian simms like flying a 747, that is about buttons and switches.

 

I have a Rift S, and that is viewed as a bridge to whatever next generation VR sets arrive next year or two. Then I will switch up. I'd rather put the money in that than a physical cockpit.

 

Again, each salt to taste.

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I find VR along with strategic use of voice attack highly immersive. Flying the F-14, which relegates much of the button flipping to Jester and leaves the pilot to concentrate on flying, is super immersive.

 

That being said I can see why some would prefer a physical cockpit for the tactile feel of button switch, but that's not for me. However, if I did get into civilian simms like flying a 747, that is about buttons and switches.

 

I have a Rift S, and that is viewed as a bridge to whatever next generation VR sets arrive next year or two. Then I will switch up. I'd rather put the money in that than a physical cockpit.

 

Again, each salt to taste.

 

Yeah, the immersion is preserved for me. I won’t be building a pit with all the buttons and switches in it and I still don’t see button pressing as all that interesting.

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And to your initial point about folks being obsessed with buttons... believe it or not its the largest part about flying; Pilots rarely sit and do nothing - they are frequently monitoring things, cycling pages, etc. That requires a physical interaction (in real life) and it's incredibly important to the future of VR, especially in this genre. I don't care about all of the buttons i've created... you give me the ability to interact with a virtual pit with my hands and I'm sold on VR. Workarounds don't cut it for me.

 

 

The PointControl devices invented and distributed by MilesD (see New VR Device thread) appear to go far towards the ultimate haptic feedback goal.

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The PointControl devices invented and distributed by MilesD (see New VR Device thread) appear to go far towards the ultimate haptic feedback goal.

 

Yep and MilesD even openly admits that his solution is an interim solution. It gets us closer, but still not there.

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VTOL VR is one game where i'd say it actually works. It's not as precise as my SIM chair with HOTAS, but he designed his SIM purely for VR, so it just works.

 

I'm glad someone brought this up... VTOL VR is an amazing game and their implementation of using the wands along with a virtual-HOTAS is absolutely amazing. It's seamless and intuitive and feels real.

 

I'd love for DCS/VR Tech in build out some serious hand tracking like that, where you can still use your own HOTAS but interact with the pit in the same way as you do in VTOL VR.

 

If any of you guys have not tried it - I highly recommend it as a way to see what is possible in VR.

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Yep and MilesD even openly admits that his solution is an interim solution. It gets us closer, but still not there.

 

I'm actually surprised that capto glove isn't doing better as the "solution". Maybe there are some real technical issues we don't know about for it. I should be getting my PoinCtrl controllers soon enough, so given my luck 2 weeks after that we should have a big capto-glove update :music_whistling:.

 

But even those will interim, at the end of the day we need some sort of haptic feedback glove that still lets us a real stick.

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The only game I tried virtual flight controls in was no mans sky, and it was horrendous. On thingiverse they have these printable magnet mounts for the touch controller that makes it so you can clip them in to the armrest on your chair with a magball, that would probably make it at least somewhat liveable.

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The only game I tried virtual flight controls in was no mans sky, and it was horrendous. On thingiverse they have these printable magnet mounts for the touch controller that makes it so you can clip them in to the armrest on your chair with a magball, that would probably make it at least somewhat liveable.

 

Most guys just kept them in their lap. But thats quite inconvenient to get on short notice in a dogfight. They did work fine for starting up the jet etc but were much less convenient in dynamic situation. I also found the phantom floating hand syndrome to be immersion breaking as well.

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Really i find the way the hand controllers work in the cockpit to be awful, at least for the oculus ones. You have to hold your hand facing up or down to switch between left versus right click mouse action and it's cumbersome as hell to use just one, like try to click something behind and to your right with your right hand with your palm facing upward. You would have to use two and mostly they are more an annoying novelty. Using the mouse is fine to me.

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Really i find the way the hand controllers work in the cockpit to be awful, at least for the oculus ones. You have to hold your hand facing up or down to switch between left versus right click mouse action and it's cumbersome as hell to use just one, like try to click something behind and to your right with your right hand with your palm facing upward. You would have to use two and mostly they are more an annoying novelty. Using the mouse is fine to me.

 

Yeah the 180 rotate to get flick up down sucked IMO. woulda been way better to use 2 different buttons or something like that.

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