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F-15C avionics wishlist


SwingKid
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Olgerd so as the IFF on Blk 40/42 is the same as on Blk 50/52 why doesn't it classify as interrogator?

 

AN/APX-113 AIFF was not installed on first production blocks of F-16CJ, and it was newer installed on F-16CG (their production was ended far before AIFF was introduced).

CCIP = Common Configuration Implementation Program. This program was started for F-16 block 50/52 in the end of previous century (1997-98 I guess). For F-16 block 40/42 it was planned to start the program a "bit" later.

AN/APX-113 AIFF upgrade is the part of this program. The program shares most of its parts with MLU program.

 

BTW. Just curious thing.

Do you know that before MMC installation on F-16CJ there was not HSD page on MFD? :D

In the Falcon 4 there is HSD page present and... FCC power switch on one of the panel on instead of MMC switch. May be it was done intentionally?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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CCIP for 650 F-16C Blk40/42 started in September 2002 and it involved fitting AN/APX-113 IFF interrogator/transponder and Lockheed Martin Sniper XR advanced FLIR targeting pod. So I think it has finised

 

So it goes now I think. I even did not seen any photo of F-16CG with AIFF antenna array on acft nose.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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Well this is what I have found on the net

"F-16 COMMON CONFIGURATION IMPLEMENTATION PROGRAM (CCIP)

 

650 USAF Block 40/42 F-16s are being upgraded under the Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP). The first phase of the program (first aircraft completed in January 2002) provides core computer and colour cockpit modifications. The second, which began in September 2002, involves fitting the advanced AN/APX-113 interrogator/transponder and Lockheed Martin Sniper XR advanced FLIR targeting pod. The third, which started in July 2003, adds Link 16 datalink, the Boeing Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System and an electronic horizontal situation indicator."

GROM- Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Manewrowego

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Do you also know that XYU-150 has no PTR modes built in?I've always suspected the HaxRO producers made a built in SPLKT/60,but that's not right.So I'm assuming that XYU doesn't have plasma electrode technology which lowers the beam detection range to 500nm.That may cause problems to the aircraft since TG-60/C/D/K versions DO have this ability.

 

 

Kthx.

 

I hope this helped :D

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Do you also know that XYU-150 has no PTR modes built in?I've always suspected the HaxRO producers made a built in SPLKT/60,but that's not right.So I'm assuming that XYU doesn't have plasma electrode technology which lowers the beam detection range to 500nm.That may cause problems to the aircraft since TG-60/C/D/K versions DO have this ability.

 

 

Kthx.

 

I hope this helped :D

 

:tongue: :biggrin:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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Well this is what I have found on the net

"F-16 COMMON CONFIGURATION IMPLEMENTATION PROGRAM (CCIP)

 

650 USAF Block 40/42 F-16s are being upgraded under the Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP). The first phase of the program (first aircraft completed in January 2002) provides core computer and colour cockpit modifications. The second, which began in September 2002, involves fitting the advanced AN/APX-113 interrogator/transponder and Lockheed Martin Sniper XR advanced FLIR targeting pod. The third, which started in July 2003, adds Link 16 datalink, the Boeing Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System and an electronic horizontal situation indicator."

 

BTW. I always wondered why USAF choosed different targeting pods for different blocks. Blocks 30 got Litening pod.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

К чему стадам дары свободы?

Их должно резать или стричь.

Наследство их из рода в роды

Ярмо с гремушками да бич.

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Actually no, they're not the same. Not the same at all.

QUOTE]

 

BTW, I didn't say they were the same ... only that I would assume they have SIMILAR symbols etc.

 

Just finished reading a book about US combat pilots in the 80s/90s and it details all the Iraqi shoot downs - and a couple of things struck me:

 

* Real problems with identifying target side blue/red ... which may indicate there is not a friendly don't shoot HUD display - mentioned IFF, NCTR AND another secret method(?)

* The very short ranges that pilots fired at (often 10-12 miles) even with AIM-7 and the really short impact ranges (often 3 miles) ... certainly not like you get on-line

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Olgerd, it is to force companies to compete, and thus offer better price and quality. That's the theory behind these purchases.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Actually no, they're not the same. Not the same at all.

QUOTE]

 

* The very short ranges that pilots fired at (often 10-12 miles) even with AIM-7 and the really short impact ranges (often 3 miles) ... certainly not like you get on-line

 

These do not seem short ranges but just realistic ones. Shooting a lethal missile to hit something BVR is something which should be done very carefully. Often pilots are only sure they are engaging a bogey after several ID methods coincide.

 

I don't knwo about on-line gameplay. From what distances are you on average shooting? 15-20 nm? Would seem rather far to me.

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15nm is too close at 40k ... you need time to get back down from there.

 

Agreed, split-s'ing is agonisingly slow at that alt! Trouble is as you get lower you leave a BIG pointer in the sky! And you are on burner which leaves you very vulnerable to a ET shot!

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Well, the way I look at it ... if the guy already has you on radar, the contrail won't matter, so after your first shot (you say at 20, I'd start at 30-35, but anyway) you crank and descend, keep him on radar, then crank back into him, fire the second shot, crank away again, let the missiles go active and hit the road.

 

The ET can only be fired at you from inside 10nm anyway.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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  • 2 weeks later...

From http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf15_1.html

 

"The centerpiece of MSIP II was the advanced AN/APG-70 radar, a next-generation descendant of the AN/APG-63, with the same antenna but much-improved capabilities and a range of operating modes. It featured "low probability of intercept" capabilities, allowing it to sense targets without being picked up by hostile radar warning receivers.

 

The cockpit layout was also improved, featuring:

 

 

A new color display built by Honeywell.

 

An improved countermeasures system, including an updated Loral AN/ALR-56C RWR; an improved Northrop AN/ALQ-135 built-in jammer; a new Magnavox warning system; and Tracor AN/ALE-45 chaff-flare dispensers mounted behind the nosewheel door.

 

Provision for a "Joint Tactical Information Display System (JTIDS)" datalink, to be fitted later. However, JTIDS was cancelled in 1989.

 

A new processing system, with four times more memory (a megabyte instead of 256 kilobytes, literally toylike either way by 21st-century standards) and three times more computing power.

 

Support for the AIM-120 "Advanced Medium Range AAM (AMRAAM)", the modern follow-on to the Sparrow, with improved range and a much improved seeker with "fire and forget" capabilities. The new AN/APG-70 radar supported AMRAAM, particularly with "Non Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR)", a highly secret pattern-matching scheme that allowed hostile targets to be reliably identified at long distance, an issue that had long hobbled BVR air combat. The AN/APG-70 was capable of not only recognizing different types of aircraft, but even sometimes different variants of a given type

The MSIP II configuration was initially evaluated on an F-15C in December 1984 and was rolled into production in June 1985. Older F-15C/Ds were gradually upgraded. "

 

The 2 things that caught my attention were:

 

"with the same antenna but much-improved capabilities and a range of operating modes. It featured "low probability of intercept" capabilities, allowing it to sense targets without being picked up by hostile radar warning receivers."

 

This suggests a passive mode of operation.

 

And;

 

"The new AN/APG-70 radar supported AMRAAM, particularly with "Non Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR)",..."

 

Which complements the IFF transponder.

 

Also, everything I have read says that the F15, all versions, have ground mapping navigation. As we see in the Soviet planes.

 

Would it be that hard to have the MFD switch to a nav mode? It would help a lot.

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Drool! If only ...

 

I would have thought the JTIDS system was fitted at sometime ... even the British Tornado got it eventually! Along with a working radar rather than a lump of concrete!

 

LPI radar I don't think implies passive operation ... athought it was more frequency hopping, narrow beams, non-continuous operation (this is all IMHO!)

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The new AN/APG-70 radar supported AMRAAM, particularly with "Non Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR)", a highly secret pattern-matching scheme that allowed hostile targets to be reliably identified at long distance, an issue that had long hobbled BVR air combat.

 

The crews of the Blackhawks downed over Iraq by two F-15 some years ago wouldn't agree very much here. They had IFF transponders turned off and they were ID'd as hostile choppers.... I don't know if those Eagles were still to receive MSIP II, but it was after 1991, so it seems a bit strange :(

or maybe NCTR works better with fixed wing jet aircraft, not with choppers..

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About LPI, "allowing it to sense targets without being picked up by hostile radar warning receivers". Further reading suggests it is not 'passive' like EOS. But a mode that makes it harder for the enemy RWR to detect reliably.

 

From what I read, the latest upgrade to the NCTR only has 14 aircraft profiles. And thats the latest upgrade. But then again, we are concerned with LOMAC here. Not only does the F15C have an IFF system, but a supplemental NCTR system. Currently, we can identify the type of aircraft when close enough, I would think most likely the NCTR implementation.

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LPI is neither passive, nor 'undetectable'. Furthermore, it's 'old LPI' and expected not to be 'LPI' at all this point. The Raptor's 'new LPI' has already been defeated on paper and the only thing required to complete this is an actual implementation. LPI is simply a method utilizing a reduction of transmission power and scan frequency in hopes that the enemy RWR will not be tripped (because of issues with how the system functions)

 

NCTR is not Panacea, and AFAIK it can only identify aircraft with jet engines anyway (theoretically, prop-powered aircraft too, but ... ) since the way it does its ID is by comparing the radar flux patterns created by the spinning of the turbine blades (this is why the restrictions on aspect etc)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Is it 'old LPI' when it comes to the time-frame that LOMAC is set in?

 

Intead of the RWR giving a constant azimuth and signal strength, would it possibly get a varying signal strength and go on and off?

 

And as far as NCTR and IFF are concerned.

 

Doesnt the F15 currently give dots and bars? Isnt this a simple form of IFF, and play-balanced with the russian bar/double bar?

 

Though I would really just like to see a nav map MFD mode. Though the LPI would be cool.

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