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Help me land the F14.


Xthedarkknight99x
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Any mentors or people willing to plan a time to hangout with me and possibly tell me how I can fix what I am doing wrong?

 

 

So I'm having major issues getting the F14 on the ground properly.

 

This is something I want to do. The idea here is that I will be able land properly on land and then on the carrier.

 

I've watched so many videos good and bad and try to mimic in and I fail.

 

I've basically watched every video I could find on the pilot seat. I've practiced getting aoa while not landing.

 

I can get the aircraft on AOA while I am not trying to land but the minute I try for a case one. It goes to hell.

Things that get me. Getting on speed with the E bracket. I adjust the trim add and remove power but it never seems to want to come down. I'm always chasing it away.

 

fighting this effect causes me to gain altitude randomly or get what I know as the wobbles and fall out of the sky.

 

 

 

I generally fly everyday.. and while not focused on landing I like bringing her back. I've learned more about this aircraft than I ever did with the F18.

 

And I dont wanna give up.

 

 

I am super grateful for the help because I love this as much as everyone else and dont want to give up.

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To start turn the hud off use the AOA indexer only. Take a nice long pattern get her on speed and trimmed then turn in and fly the approach. Takes time but it will be much better without chasing the bracket or velocity vector. Neither update fast enough in the F14 to be of use.

 

HUD is NoT a primary flight instrument in the F14. Mainly for weapons delivery.

 

Hope this will help a little.

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Sounds like a case of not using DLC.

 

You can be on speed AoA with just wings, with wings and flaps engaged, but to be on speed with DLC engaged puts you in the state where you can really control the descent rate with the throttle. You can even use it to initiate a descent rate if the plane is stuck in a climb if you hold it forward.

 

Run around dirty in the landing configuration, put the jet on speed AoA, and mess with the DLC to get a feel for how long you can engage it for descent and how to catch it with the throttle. Then you'll be where you need to be to get it down properly both on land, and in a case 1.

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I've heard of using the AOA instead of the hud. Is there a reason why the hud would be different then the AoA indexer ?

 

DLC does get used and unfortunately that is when I fall out of the sky.

 

 

The other Issue I find is getting lined up with the run way. I've read that its a 45 to 60 degree bank. Is that right ? When doing a case one how far to the right of the run way or carrier should I be?

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The HUD's velocity tape is highly inaccurate. It should not be regarded for landing whatsoever, as pilots used their AoA indexer and the variometer to determine the rate of vertical acceleration.

 

The DLC (Direct Lift Control) is also very important to use. Having it on allows you to "fine tune" like an airbrake, except on the wings to help you speed up or slow down quicker giving you a sweet spot that you can dynamically move in.

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I am more than willing to help. But usually I don't care too much for procedures. I see them more like suggestions. Therefore I rely on my guts to bring her down. If you are interested in my approach hit me up with a PM. Might be helpful to see a completely different method. I tend to fly in the evening in Europe (CEST)

 

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Any mentors or people willing to plan a time to hangout with me and possibly tell me how I can fix what I am doing wrong?

 

 

So I'm having major issues getting the F14 on the ground properly.

 

This is something I want to do. The idea here is that I will be able land properly on land and then on the carrier.

 

I've watched so many videos good and bad and try to mimic in and I fail.

 

I've basically watched every video I could find on the pilot seat. I've practiced getting aoa while not landing.

 

I can get the aircraft on AOA while I am not trying to land but the minute I try for a case one. It goes to hell.

Things that get me. Getting on speed with the E bracket. I adjust the trim add and remove power but it never seems to want to come down. I'm always chasing it away.

 

fighting this effect causes me to gain altitude randomly or get what I know as the wobbles and fall out of the sky.

 

 

 

I generally fly everyday.. and while not focused on landing I like bringing her back. I've learned more about this aircraft than I ever did with the F18.

 

And I dont wanna give up.

 

 

I am super grateful for the help because I love this as much as everyone else and dont want to give up.

 

I have time in the evenings (CEST) if you want to drop by our server (v16sqn) Introduce yourself on Discord and we can take it from there. https://discord.gg/TwkZky9

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I've heard of using the AOA instead of the hud. Is there a reason why the hud would be different then the AoA indexer ?

 

DLC does get used and unfortunately that is when I fall out of the sky.

 

The other Issue I find is getting lined up with the run way. I've read that its a 45 to 60 degree bank. Is that right ? When doing a case one how far to the right of the run way or carrier should I be?

Always be on the safe side. Immerse yourself like your life depends on it. It's always better to bolter or even fly over the deck then to die in a crash. Do it again and again, until you're confident that it is safe to touchdown.

 

 

 

When you're too slow to the point of wing rock and buffeting - you missed the point where you were decelerating and are falling down because of the low throttle setting. Save yourself and use full AB throttle if needed. Remember to extend airbrake and turn on DLC again after. Better to break the pattern than die.

 

 

 

Be patient - better to do longer approaches first where you can set yourself sooner and better control what you have set. It takes time, probably have to do it multiple times until proper lineup and trap but you're trying to learn how to land safely - crashing will only teach you how to die. Never attempt nose down to save last seconds high approach.

 

 

 

For land - stay on the glideslope - keep the runway at 3 degrees below horizon. Steer to touchdown at the end of the runway then flare to lower the descent rate and hopefully you will TD where the skid marks are. If you're over 1/3 of the runway and still airborne - call missed approach and try again.

 

 

 

The 45-60 degrees bank is the initial break in left overhead pattern (Case I). The base turn is mild - about 20 degrees. You do it just after the port side aft ship in the group, about 1.2nm slant range from carrier.

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Things that get me. Getting on speed with the E bracket. I adjust the trim add and remove power but it never seems to want to come down. I'm always chasing it away.

 

Do you have your speedbrake completely out?

 

Here is what I do :

 

A the break (I do it a t 2nm, 450kts)

 

- speedbrake out

- start your turn

- when you start to drop on the VVI, put your wingsweep to auto

- lift will pick up, use gear down to add some drag to stay on altitude

 

Slowly level your plane heading downwind on the inverse BRC

 

Noticed I haven't changed the throttle yet, pretty soon you will slow down and start going down. When this happens lower your flaps. Lowering your flaps will create some downward pitching momentum but you will stay on altitude.

 

Now, concentrate on getting on speed at the proper aoa. Pitch up to stay neutral on the VVI, trim, add power, trim. Keep at 600ft. DLC out.

 

When abeam the LSO station on the boat, start your turn around 20deg. depending if you are near or far the boat.

 

This is the tricky part, where you have to stay on speed while turning almost at full mill. Use the force... Don't look at your instruments so much at this point try to get the full 'picture'. Resist the temptation to do big power corrections. Wave off if you are not on parameters.

 

At about 3/4 turn, the ILS bars will appear. If you are on parameters the last part is easy. You have to reduce power when leveling because lift changes alot depending on bank angle. This takes practice to get right.

 

Good luck!

METEOP

 

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Noticed I haven't changed the throttle yet...

Yeah I noticed... don't you put the throttle to idle at the break?!

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I'll add my 2 cents here. I have my DLC control set-up on a rotary. This way i can do small adjustments and correct how much lift i have. Using the AOA indicator and the velocity vector on the HUD allows me to trap 95% of the time. The ones that i miss are due to a poor setup in the approach.

 

Fly the approach at AOA speed and use the DLC to keep the velocity vector on the deck in front of the #4 wire. That's where the nose is going to plant but you still have a lot of plane behind you where the hook is. I adjust my throttle and AOA to maintain the approach with half of DLC deploye, this way i can kill lift or extend if needed. I control the rate of descent using DLC only with minimal engine input and very small stick corrections to keep me centered on the runway.

 

Don't forget that you can always go around and if your approach doesn't look good at 1.5 to 1 miles out there's little chance to save it.

 

Cheers,

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Yeah I noticed... don't you put the throttle to idle at the break?!

 

I would say I am around 3 on the FF with about 5 deg aoa 450kts with wings completely swept at the brake, I put full brakes out then start the break.

 

You think I should be lower?

METEOP

 

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Carrier Landing Pattern - The Break

 

Break Interval 15-17 Seconds

Break at 45 deg to 60 deg bank

Speed Brake - Extended

Throttles - At Idle

Level Turn at 800 Feet

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Carrier Landing Pattern - The Break

 

Break Interval 15-17 Seconds

Break at 45 deg to 60 deg bank

Speed Brake - Extended

Throttles - At Idle

.

.

.

Level Turn at 800 Feet

 

 

"Level Turn at 800 Feet" ..... SOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier said than done!! Still working on it ...

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Hey guys, wanted to check in. Long day at work and unfortunately its harder for me to meet up during the week. More likely on a Friday through Sunday

 

I am US Western time.

 

So after reading the comments there are somethings I was able to identify.

 

I have not been giving myself enough time when the wings are folder to trim out.

 

The other thing I noticed is that I wasn't slowing down enough.

( noticed that about 200 knots i start to feel very uncomfortable with the pitch of the aircraft like I was going to fall out of the sky.)

 

 

Things that I want to practice. Banking angles. Gear down flaps down around the break.

 

Thanks for the help and the offers for assistance and live guideance

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"Level Turn at 800 Feet" ..... SOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier said than done!! Still working on it ...
Yea don't do 60 for a level break as you will always climb if you pull more than 2 g, you may find it easier to start slightly overbanked close to 90 and then roll the bank off a you reduce the g load.

 

 

 

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I would say I am around 3 on the FF with about 5 deg aoa 450kts with wings completely swept at the brake, I put full brakes out then start the break.

 

You think I should be lower?

What? I only said that you forgot to put very important bit in your instructions: "throttle idle at the break".:thumbup:

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Yea don't do 60 for a level break as you will always climb if you pull more than 2 g, you may find it easier to start slightly overbanked close to 90 and then roll the bank off a you reduce the g load.

 

Good point, in time I learned to 'modulate' the vertical speed at the break by changing the bank angle so that the flight path indicator stays on the horizon throughout the break.

METEOP

 

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Yea don't do 60 for a level break as you will always climb if you pull more than 2 g, you may find it easier to start slightly overbanked close to 90 and then roll the bank off a you reduce the g load.

 

 

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

 

Great tip! Will give this a try.

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What? I only said that you forgot to put very important bit in your instructions: "throttle idle at the break".:thumbup:

 

It was deliberate on my part to omit this step.

 

I might be wrong, for sure not the best. I have read the mythical manuals 'cough'.

 

I have found that putting the throttle at idle just screws up my break big time. If I idle the throttle at the break, I do not have sufficient velocity to finish the turn without either deploying flaps before the end of the turn (which messes the whole thing up and doesn't seem a good idea to me) or increasing power, thereby creating another problem where you have too much power after leveling, leading to that dreaded 'balooning' at the end of the break.

 

I tried it again this morning, since there were so many changes in the FM. Nope!

 

By leaving the throttle at the same power than before the break, I can keep on altitude during the break and finish it pretty much on speed when leveling out.

 

Once level the plane decelerates further, the fpi starts dropping so I pull down the flaps to stay on altitude around 700agl. With this setup there is very little trimming to do on the downwind leg.

 

Try it :smilewink:

METEOP

 

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A small detail I'm working on these days is synchronizing my turns better to reduce adverse yaw, which is incredibly aggravated by high aoa such as when during the last turn.

 

I use the hud's small dot (dunno what it's called but probably the boresight) to 'support' the fpi like balancing a ball on a plate. By making my turns better synchronized I have a much better lift control.

 

I have found that at low speed and high aoa an out of sync turn seems to severely decrease lift thereby dropping you like a stone. Un-synched turns also seem to induce wing oscillation.

METEOP

 

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I begin on BRC with the boat, 800 ft MSL, 350-400 KIAS, wings manually swept to 68 deg (full back). I do my break at 1.2 miles from the carrier, bank to 60 deg or more, throttle to idle, wings to auto, airbrake out full, deply DLC, and pull to leave the VV on the horizon. Continuing the turn, at about 250 KIAS I drop the gear, at about 200 KIAS I drop the flaps full and add a little bit of power since it will make me slow. As I roll out on reciprocal heading, I ease her into 600 ft MSL and then flip my spoiler/antiskid switch off and trim/power for AOA. Doing this, I am almost always placed between 1 and 1.2 miles from the boat on the downwind.

 

 

I don't start my turn to the 90 until I am abeam the round down (see the white paint of the round down). Then I turn with the VV just a little bit below the horizon to slowly bleed altitude and add a little bit of power since I lose lift in the turn. No more than 30 degrees angle of bank. By the time I am rolling into the groove I am down to about 375-400 ft and lining up on slope. From there it's power management with three part power corrections:

 

 

If low, a little power on, a little power off, then half back on.

If high, a little power off, a little power on, then half back off.

 

 

In the groove I do not use the needles at all. I am fixated on the ball, aimed toward the crotch of the boat. In close if I need a last minute adjustment to get me on the 3 wire, I hit DLC. Couple bumps up or down as needed, I don't hold continuously (as per Tomcat drivers' recommendations I've heard).

 

 

That's in a nutshell, and of course takes practice just to get a feel for it. I pretty much do the same thing in the Hornet, but there is less FEEL in the Bug, everything seems so sterilized, but the HUD info is way more valuable.

 

 

v6,

boNes

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It was deliberate on my part to omit this step.

 

I might be wrong, for sure not the best. I have read the mythical manuals 'cough'.

 

I have found that putting the throttle at idle just screws up my break big time. If I idle the throttle at the break, I do not have sufficient velocity to finish the turn without either deploying flaps before the end of the turn (which messes the whole thing up and doesn't seem a good idea to me) or increasing power, thereby creating another problem where you have too much power after leveling, leading to that dreaded 'balooning' at the end of the break.

 

I tried it again this morning, since there were so many changes in the FM. Nope!

 

By leaving the throttle at the same power than before the break, I can keep on altitude during the break and finish it pretty much on speed when leveling out.

 

Once level the plane decelerates further, the fpi starts dropping so I pull down the flaps to stay on altitude around 700agl. With this setup there is very little trimming to do on the downwind leg.

 

Try it :smilewink:

 

Once rolled out on the downwind after your perfect 800' level turn ;), you then want to level out and let it descend down to 600' while dropping the flaps and popping the DLC. As it descends you want to make final trim adjustments to get a nice on-speed at 600' while adding some power, and looking left for the LSO platform.

Also during your break turn, have you tried modulating your back pressure to maintain level, instead of your bank angle (noting that Windy says to alter bank angle, which is cool too)? Also your 'ballooning' at the end of the break is probably more because you are not letting it settle into the downwind. The idea isn't to have idle the whole way around if you are getting too slow, just idle at the break to reduce the speed for gear and flaps, put power on as required to maintain the turn, and then anticipate the roll-out with a power reduction. Same deal when you roll out into the groove - else you will balloon there also.


Edited by VampireNZ

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Also during your break turn, have you tried modulating your back pressure to maintain level, instead of your bank angle (noting that Windy says to alter bank angle, which is cool too)?

 

 

I'll try with pitch control instead of roll control to compare, might be better. I found it more logical to change the roll since you get a smooth and constant turn rate in the horizontal plane, making separation with the boat more consistent.

 

I'll compare both in Tacview and will report.

 

Also your 'ballooning' at the end of the break is probably more because you are not letting it settle into the downwind. The idea isn't to have idle the whole way around if you are getting too slow, just idle at the break to reduce the speed for gear and flaps, put power on as required to maintain the turn, and then anticipate the roll-out with a power reduction. Same deal when you roll out into the groove - else you will balloon there also.

 

This is part of the reason why I am not reducing to idle during the break, she's already a handfull and having to change roll, pitch, speedbrake, gear and flaps is already enough for me without having to deal with throttle also. Consider it a shortcut.

 

Since two FM changes ago I stopped balooning, there is a thread regarding FM changes by fat_creason that ironed out this issue:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=245762&page=3

METEOP

 

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There are a couple of F14 DCS issues that may affect you. The Aircraft is not getting the correct weight from DCS at the moment. If you take off at max weight you appear to land at max weight. This will make your on speed AOA rather high 155-160 instead of the expected 135 at light weight.

 

In a level turn g and Angle of bank are linked 60 degree bank is a 2g level turn if you pull 3.5g at 60 AOB you will climb. In order to break level you need to be at an appropriate bank angle.

 

The reason this matters is because you want to rollout downwind 1.2 mile ish offset from BRC. So given a certain break speed you need a certain amount of g and hence bank angle to roll out level at 800ft. That's where the advice for the F18 comes from 350kts is 3.5 g as it slows 250kts is 2.5g etc. It gives you a guide as to how much to pull plus it's easy as you have a flight path vector to tell you if you are climbing or descending , just keep it on the horizon.

 

In the F14 the HUD update rate is really slow so it's not much help. You can scan the altimeter or VSI inside as a guide but it's tricky. I would advise to always break from the same speed so you can get a feel for how much g is required as you break if you want to do a level break then the AOB starts high and decreases through the break as speed decreases and g decreases ( just like the F18) it's a principle of flight nothing clever. The trick is getting it right and that I am afraid is just practice.

 

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