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TGP zoom on Antenna Elevation reversal option


Eldur
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As the title says, I'd apprediate an option to reverse the TGP zoom function on the HOTAS controls. Reason is simple: I use the TDC slew stick on my TMWH throttle for that and intuitively, pushing it forward (=down) lowers the antenna elevation, but on the TGP it does zoom out whereas I would prefer to have it zoom in instead. This "issue" does occur because of the rotational reversal of the chosen input method, for example on that unrealistic, additional tilt wheel thing on the Hornet grip, it would behave as expeced if that was an axis (to my knowledge it's just 3 buttons technically).

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I adapted.

But since the request is an option to inverse it, then both camps will be satisfied, and thats a +1 from me.

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

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The question is...is it correct. This is a function of the real airplane.

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+1 seems like the wrong direction for me.

 

Down on Radar elevation should be Zoom in on TGP but it works in the reverse of that.

 

An option would make everybody happy.

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My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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The question is...is it correct. This is a function of the real airplane.

 

Exactly. The zoom function should work as it does on the real aircraft, not however is more convenient for different control layouts.

 

That said, I think the team should try to figure out how this is implemented. I don't have the info for the Hornet, but on radar equipped Harriers the antenna elevation wheel also controls TPOD zoom, and in that case EL down = ZM+ and EL up = ZM-. For whatever that is worth.

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Don't understand this request/complaint at all. It works as it does on the real aircraft. Is is because of people's tendency to invert "look up and down" on many games/sims/consoles? Pulling aft on the sensor switch, pulls the camera zoom aft(out). Pulling aft on the sensor switch lowers the antenna radar elevation(down) as well. How is this not normal? Seems to be a non-issue. Especially compared to many of the other issues/features that need to be addressed/adjusted/corrected.

 

Cheers,

 

Don


Edited by Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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As the title says, I'd apprediate an option to reverse the TGP zoom function on the HOTAS controls. Reason is simple: I use the TDC slew stick on my TMWH throttle for that and intuitively, pushing it forward (=down) lowers the antenna elevation, but on the TGP it does zoom out whereas I would prefer to have it zoom in instead. This "issue" does occur because of the rotational reversal of the chosen input method, for example on that unrealistic, additional tilt wheel thing on the Hornet grip, it would behave as expeced if that was an axis (to my knowledge it's just 3 buttons technically).

 

+1

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Try using the mini stick for the TDC (set up axis). I use the TMS up and down to control radar elevation (and it also functions as the TGP zoom). You can slew and adjust zoom independently, without any issue at all. Seems like using the mini stick would be incredibly difficult. Just my

.02

 

I’d be happy to put my control config on here for you to try if you’d like.

 

Cheers,

 

Don

 

 

Edited: had DMS written rather than TMS. My mistake


Edited by Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Pulling aft on the sensor switch, pulls the camera zoom aft(out). Pulling aft on the sensor switch lowers the antenna radar elevation(down) as well. How is this not normal? Seems to be a non-issue.

 

On most controllers it is more up/down than fwd/aft, and depending on the controller it can be either on the front (away from the user) or back (toward the user).

This is why an option to reverse the direction would be useful.

 

Example - Warthog throttle slew control or coolie hat (away from the user)

If you set it logically so that up=antenna up and down=antenna down, then up=zoom in and down=zoom out which does not make sense!

 

Example - Warthog stick TMS or DMS (towards the user)

If you set it logically so that up=antenna up and down=antenna down, then up=zoom out and down=zoom in which is logical (this is how DCS does it currently)

 

So an option to reverse it would allow a logical mapping to be used in both situation.

Saying it is not "realistic" is not valid because we are not using a realistic hornet HOTAS and have to map functions to non-realistic locations.

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Don't understand this request/complaint at all. It works as it does on the real aircraft. Is is because of people's tendency to invert "look up and down" on many games/sims/consoles? Pulling aft on the sensor switch, pulls the camera zoom aft(out). Pulling aft on the sensor switch lowers the antenna radar elevation(down) as well. How is this not normal? Seems to be a non-issue. Especially compared to many of the other issues/features that need to be addressed/adjusted/corrected.

 

Cheers,

 

Don

 

Except this isn’t how it works. This is just how you have it configured. The antenna elevation is controlled by a wheel on the front of the throttle. Pulling it “aft” is pulling it up, which raises the antenna. Pulling aft or up also zooms in. See where there may be some confusion?

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Not sure why the flap. Put in a choice. I have it down to zoom out but it sure felt funny.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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Tried to be of some help, possibly give another perspective but no luck. Good luck then, hope you can find happiness.

 

Cheers,

 

Don

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Tried to be of some help, possibly give another perspective but no luck. Good luck then, hope you can find happiness.

 

OP tried to be of some help. Identified an issue, created a new wishlist entry.

 

How come every single wishlist thread on this forum gets flooded with people who claim it's a non-issue and others just got it wrong and should adapt? It's a *wish* for crying out loud, and I believe 99.9% of all such wishes never get implemented, so it doesn't even make sense to argue about how the devs should best invest their resources (which is the other common complaint against wishlist threads).

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OP tried to be of some help. Identified an issue, created a new wishlist entry.

 

How come every single wishlist thread on this forum gets flooded with people who claim it's a non-issue and others just got it wrong and should adapt? It's a *wish* for crying out loud, and I believe 99.9% of all such wishes never get implemented, so it doesn't even make sense to argue about how the devs should best invest their resources (which is the other common complaint against wishlist threads).

 

How come when someone asks for clarification on why it is an issue/request/wish - it’s interpreted as arguing? Functions the same in the A10C as it does in the hornet.. I was just confused, then when I couldn’t understand the “issue” I wished for his happiness in a solution? :doh:

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Functions the same in the A10C as it does in the hornet..

 

No it doesn’t, in the Hornet the radar elevation/TGP Zoom is controlled by a spring loaded wheel on the FRONT of the throttle, the opposite side from the pilot. If you have it bound to a hat switch on your stick like in the A-10 then that is not accurate to where the control is on the real Hornet and that changes the way it behaves.

 

I have it bound to the coolie hat on the front of the Warthog throttle which is in a similar place to where the wheel is on the real Hornet and pushing that down results in tilting the radar down (makes sense) but also zooming out (doesn’t make sense).

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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No it doesn’t, in the Hornet the radar elevation/TGP Zoom is controlled by a spring loaded wheel on the FRONT of the throttle, the opposite side from the pilot. If you have it bound to a hat switch on your stick like in the A-10 then that is not accurate to where the control is on the real Hornet and that changes the way it behaves.

 

I have it bound to the coolie hat on the front of the Warthog throttle which is in a similar place to where the wheel is on the real Hornet and pushing that down results in tilting the radar down (makes sense) but also zooming out (doesn’t make sense).

 

Ok, what I am saying is: zooming the TGP in and out with the TMS (on my warthog hotas) is the same key bind as what it is in the A10C. That is all. It’s also very convenient. And when you are controlling the radar antenna elevation (with my key bindings also the TMS), when you press aft (or down as some refer to it), the radar elevation goes down. And when you press up (or forward as some call it), the radar elevation goes up. For crying out loud, everyone is too tight. Go have a beer and drop some JDAMS or whatever floats your boat folks.

 

I had DMS in my initial post, rather that TMS. Audio dictation on iPhone wasn’t spot on.

Cheers,

 

Don


Edited by Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Ok, what I am saying is: zooming the TGP in and out with the TMS (on my warthog hotas) is the same key bind as what it is in the A10C. That is all. It’s also very convenient. And when you are controlling the radar antenna elevation (with my key bindings also the TMS), when you press aft (or down as some refer to it), the radar elevation goes down. And when you press up (or forward as some call it), the radar elevation goes up. For crying out loud, everyone is too tight. Go have a beer and drop some JDAMS or whatever floats your boat folks.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

 

I don’t get your point? What if you have a hornet stick and don’t have TMS?

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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I don’t get your point? What if you have a hornet stick and don’t have TMS?

 

I don’t have the F18 stick yet. But if I did, I’d use the roller wheel on the stick - and forward would zoom in, and aft would zoom out - and seems it would have the same functionality as what I am currently using.... Didn’t see the OP state whether he had the 18 stick or the warthog stick. Just read TMWH throttle. I use the mini stick on the throttle to slew the TGP, TDC, seeker heads.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Ok, to prevent any further confusion - on my part or others - here is a quick image of the keybind(s) that I use for the F/A-18C Lot 20 Hornet, with my Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. I may not have included all the current keybinds, as I am away from home base and not able to just reference my keybinds thru DCS. Going from muscle memory. But the basics are there. Apologies if the DMS/TMS error using my iPhone's audio dictation caused any issue(s)

 

 

Pressing "in" on the mini stick (throttle diagram), which would be labeled +push #1 is the sensor select "switch" (which interrogates radar track/contact).

 

Cheers,

 

Don

305664645_FA-18Cstickkeybind.thumb.jpg.2255fa96b627f74b5d3e69f4047f4ffe.jpg

1750011321_FA-18Cthrottlekeybind.thumb.jpg.4af33b469af8867c4f6854587043dc3b.jpg


Edited by Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Great. What has this got to do with wanting the ability to reverse the TGP zoom direction in relation to radar elevation?

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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The problem is that there is no TGP zoom keybinding, it is using the radar elevation HOTAS binding. I have it set to the coolie button on throttle.

 

 

 

So I have the same issue, always pressing the wrong way to zoom in/out.

 

 

 

The solution is to map to either TMS or DMS buttons (too late for me as I already have them memorized for TDC/weapon select) OR

Give us an option in settings to map TGP zoom

 

 

The difference between using joystick or throttle buttons is on the joystick it is natural to push up to increase tgp zoom/radar elevation AND push down to decrease elevation/zoom tgp out, while on throttle you are actually pulling up and pushing down on the button which feels inverted for the TGP zoom.


Edited by Dagger71
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