National Modules

[cailean_556]

Adding AI assets for free can be a bit counter-intuitive - it costs time and money to develop a model, code the flight model and then texture it and code it into the base sim.

 

We have aircraft modules, we have Combined Arms and soon we're going to have a module dedicated to aircraft carrier operations. We have a World War 2 asset pack. The Falklands/Malvinas map being developed will ship with Falklands War-era assets for the UK and Argentina. All of which are positive things.

 

All these assets and liveries take up HDD space and make the sim larger and larger depending on how many assets and liveries DCS includes. It got me thinking on how ED could potentially make more money whilst also adding content to the sim that generates income for ED.

 

Russia and the US are, more or less, well represented so they could be considered your 'base sim' nations. Other countries are more or less represented but are either lacking in one area or another, or they lack accurate aircraft liveries.

 

A module that adds period-accurate known aircraft, helicopters, vehicles and ships (as well as corresponding markings) for a particular nation to DCS as at a certain year (example 2006), with some scope to add assets from newer/older eras if there are modules already/being developed from that period.

 

France and the UK are, in DCS, under-represented. They lack aircraft and vehicles to a degree but their navies are non-existent. ED develops the required assets to flesh out the UK as it stood as of 2006 (AI only, with associated weapons and Combined Arms functionality where appropriate). ED bundles all of those extra assets into a module and charges $20 (example) for it. The UK then has Type 23 frigates, Invincible-class carrier, Trafalgar-class submarines, Sea King helicopters, Sea Harriers, Tornado IDS and ADV (for example).

 

You could also add the Audacious-class carriers and associated embarked aircraft (given that the F-4 will be a DCS module eventually). The UK would then also have access to the Blackburn Buccaneer and Phantom FG1 (though not an F-4E variant - perhaps some consideration could be given and some 'creative licence' taken to enable a carrier-based variant at some point) along with support helos and other aircraft such as the Gannet AEW and COD.

 

France, given an F-8 Crusader module has been announced, would also benefit from such work - by adding a period-specific carrier to operate from (the Clemenceau-class) as well as the addition of aircraft such as the Super Entendard. From the 2006 time period, the Du Gaulle and its Rafales, as well as AdA Rafales (AI only), would make flesh out France.

 

These are just examples, of course. And this would take quite some time but it would allow users to customise their DCS experience based on their nation/nations of interest without demanding stuff for free. It also limits the size of the install to that which a user desires, based on what nations they wish to have and the size of the base-sim. It would also allow for a more varied mix of aircraft in the sky as opposed to predominantly a US vs Russia scenario.

 

There wouldn't be a requirement to get these Nation modules, just like there's no requirement to get all the aircraft modules. But it would assist ED with funding (maybe even expanding) as well as add period specific equipment for each nation so we're not seeing a nation's aircraft flying around in default US colours or completely missing assets from their navy or army. For aircraft that overlap (used by another nation), the aircraft is selectable for that nation but uses a 'default' livery (like an all-grey, unmarked livery or something).

 

What does everyone else think?

Edited August 16, 2019 by cailean_556

[Baco]

I believe that DCS is seriously lacking on AI assets, not only planes but ships, land vehicles, etc.. So YES any way we can get mor content in that regard is a must have for me....

[sirrah]

So if I understand it correctly, you suggest that ED should create ~$20 modules for AI aircraft?

 

I'm all in for improved AI behaviour and skins and gladly pay for it. But how would this work in MP? People that didn't buy the AI modules don't see them? :D

 

But again, maybe I didn't understand you correctly

[Xilon_x]

but instead of complaining, why don't you actually say what you want?

you want improved AI but precisely what.

be more detailed.

[Silver_Dragon]

Deka has put chinese unit free, Heatblur has plans to Swedden and some UsNavy units and RAZBAM has building a big quantity of Argentina and Royal navy ships, vehicles, aircrafts, etc and plan a 50-60 AI assets pack to Migs by "cuban" team. Magnitude 3 has building a F-8 UsNavy aircraft, no france, and the F-4E has a land based version, not a carrier borne version. ED has centred on update old FC/LOMAC AI units, add new Cold war assets and more (Supercarrier, etc).

 

That not require "national" modules. Require form a new 3rd party or a AI develop team with talk with ED and build new AI units at DCS quality standars. About UK and France AI units, that require dedicated teams, ED and the actual 3rd parties has your plans.

[Worrazen]

So in summary, we need a big whooping ground unit & struture megapack, right? Hehe

 

I think there's a number of core DCS improvements that are needed for that primetime which I am speculating will start to happen 1.5 to 2 years down the line when new CPU HW, Vulkan, VR support, new ATC,the beginning of a dynamic campaing all come together, but these core DCS upgrade are possibly a big deal IMO and I'm a bit worried being completely-free might take them longer and miss that timeframe or price of other modules might unintentionally rise as a side-effect.

 

 

So I had the idea of some kind of semi-paid method idea (which I think I fully explained on the offtopic forum), a campaign where a larger upgrade would be available to everyone but it would have some kind of pre-release recouperation period before it goes live, which would last like two weeks, in the span of two weeks increased focus and news on that, while the contrubtion would be open via eShop by purchasing some "upgrade bounty" tickets for 1$, 2$, 4$, and that would fill up the bar on the upgrade. This is quite unusual in the market but hey, I think the benefits are I think just positive, it possibly takes the weight off other modules and promotes community engagement with discussions and just the fanfare of the campaing and all the chatter and anticipation around it, kinda like a minigame, a pre-dish before the main dinner.

 

Then I see a few sub-methods of the funding process, either a strict version with a requirement to reach some X goal of funds, publicly represented by percents so that the actual number is hidden and remains confidential, and after that is reached then it would go live for free to everyone or shortly after that.

 

Or, a more relaxed version of optional contribution in the period and it gets released on fixed date for free to everyone and what no matter how much was contributed.

 

There can certainly be many hybrids and other types out there I don't realize, with a bit of fiddling a really cool way could work out for both actually the DCS community actually trusting it ... the fear is that everyone waits for everyone else to contribute so it get's stuck, but a dedicated smaller community I think is better fit than the larger mainstream games, that's why such models aren't used out there, the companies just fear it and don't want to risk it a bit to find a good way.

 

A bit of big-upgrade funding could perhaps pay for 1 or 2 more developers to focus and cover all the niche areas of DCS and niche areas of ME, but I'm already seeing signs of that happening so I'm not complaining.

 

And I thought of this as a solution for the new ATC update conflict, something everyone expects it's core upgrade, but it's so big it can't just be free, well let's just do a paid upgrade but not as a module, still available to everyone, but not everyone needs to pay for it, but it would work out if these community supported core upgrades aren't seen as profit makers, but break evens. That could also be a good initial starting point determining what kind of number should be hidning behind that percentage of the goal completion, the number the accountants determine it's a break even.

 

Might not even need to be some high number, anythings better than nothing kinda, because the lower it is it's easier to fullfill by optional community contribution, in some cases, even break-even number would be large IMO for big upgrades, so maybe some formula lowering that even more on a case by case basis.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Worrazen

[cailean_556]

but instead of complaining, why don't you actually say what you want?

you want improved AI but precisely what.

be more detailed.

 

Who's complaining? Nothing about my post was a complaint. I wasn't complaining, I was suggesting that ED make Nation modules for DCS that fill out their ORBATs with assets applicable to a time period - it's a way for them to develop extra assets while also getting paid for them.

 

People are almost literally demanding this, that and the other be put into DCS. I believe you yourself were demanding that ED flesh out Italy some time back.

 

I said nothing about improved AI, unless you mean "improved' as in they have access to applicable weapons, platforms and equipment.

[cailean_556]

So if I understand it correctly, you suggest that ED should create ~$20 modules for AI aircraft?

 

I'm all in for improved AI behaviour and skins and gladly pay for it. But how would this work in MP? People that didn't buy the AI modules don't see them? :D

 

But again, maybe I didn't understand you correctly

 

You raise a good point there, sirrah. I suppose, on an MP server, you would be able to see said asset but you wouldn't be able to utilise them in the Mission Editor unless you had the requisite module.

 

Somewhat similar to how the WW2 assets pack is handled, although with that one - if you don't have it, you can't access missions or servers that include those assets. At least from what I understand.

 

I suspect that's how the South Atlantic map will also work. Happy to be proven wrong, but I was under the impression that the assets being developed for the South Atlantic map were only going to be available to those that bought the South Atlantic map.

[cailean_556]

Deka has put chinese unit free, Heatblur has plans to Swedden and some UsNavy units and RAZBAM has building a big quantity of Argentina and Royal navy ships, vehicles, aircrafts, etc and plan a 50-60 AI assets pack to Migs by "cuban" team. Magnitude 3 has building a F-8 UsNavy aircraft, no france, and the F-4E has a land based version, not a carrier borne version. ED has centred on update old FC/LOMAC AI units, add new Cold war assets and more (Supercarrier, etc).

 

That not require "national" modules. Require form a new 3rd party or a AI develop team with talk with ED and build new AI units at DCS quality standars. About UK and France AI units, that require dedicated teams, ED and the actual 3rd parties has your plans.

 

Deka is doing amazing work, as are all the third party developers. I intend to support Deka further when they release the JF-17 so they can continue developing quality assets and aircraft modules.

 

I was not aware of Heatblur's intent to improve Sweden in DCS, but that's certainly interesting - is it tied to any particular module?

 

Mag3 is developing the F-8, and I'm led to believe it's a US Navy F-8. I'm also VERY aware that the F-4E module on hold/in development is the land-based variant used by the USAF and a number of other countries around the world.

 

We will get there, eventually, I believe. What I was suggesting was a way for ED is finance this work. Maybe even expand to assist in development. This is the 'Wishlist' after all.

 

If I had the finances and knowledge required, I'd throw my hat in the ring without a second-thought. It'd take me far longer to gain the required skills and generate the finances and development studio from scratch - it would likely take me the better part of a decade to get up and running. By then, maybe even the Eurofighter Typhoon will be a DCS module. :megalol:

[KennyG]

I'm in favor of ED creating as many modules as they can think of, or supporting third parties to do so and vetting them efficiently before putting them into the DCS E-Shop. There's a ton of revenue being passed up that ED and others should be benefiting from. Feel free to nickel and dime me for liveries, skins, campaigns, maps, vehicles, whatever. Not everything needs to be a $79 plane or even a complex model. People pay, unsurprisingly, for things that enhance their play in many ways. So yeah, whether they package them as "National" morsels or just very specificly named-addons is fine with me. They're sitting on a potential "App-Store" kind of ecosystem and not making the most of it IMO.

[KennyG]

OMG, 56% of you think AI assets should be free!? You'll get what you pay for.

 

Personally I'd rather have someplace that gathers all the good work that people do for the platform and cut everybody in. Sheesh. No wonder this has taken two decades to produce.

[QuiGon]

You raise a good point there, sirrah. I suppose, on an MP server, you would be able to see said asset but you wouldn't be able to utilise them in the Mission Editor unless you had the requisite module.

 

Somewhat similar to how the WW2 assets pack is handled, although with that one - if you don't have it, you can't access missions or servers that include those assets. At least from what I understand.

MP combatibility is my major concern with your proposal. I don't think it's possible or viable to restrict access to units in the mission editor seperately. So, just because of the issue with multiplayer, which is a huge issue for me, I have to disagree with your proposol.

 

I suspect that's how the South Atlantic map will also work. Happy to be proven wrong, but I was under the impression that the assets being developed for the South Atlantic map were only going to be available to those that bought the South Atlantic map.

I have not heard anything like that yet. Can you tell me where you got that from, that the Falkland assets will only be available as part of the Falkland map module?