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Mr_Burns
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I had a new insight yesterday regarding trying to explain the immersion of VR in DCS to people . I have ridden high-performance motorcycles my entire adult life . RD350's and Norton Commando's back in the day , through today's R1 . The thrill i get as i taxi my Hornet out for a sortie , and the level of satisfaction from mastering a powerful machine , are every bit as intense as riding mountain roads IRL .


Edited by Svsmokey

9700k , Aorus Pro wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Hotas on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , RiftS

 

"Hold my beer"

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I had a new insight yesterday regarding trying to explain the immersion of VR in DCS to people . I have ridden high-performance motorcycles my entire adult life . RD350's and Norton Commando's back in the day , through today's R1 . The thrill i get as i taxi my Hornet out for a sortie , and the level of satisfaction from mastering a powerful machine , are every bit as intense as riding mountain roads IRL .

You should put them in your pilotseat with the VR goggles on. Let them see for themselves. ;)

 

My best friend isn't really interested in military aircraft of aircraft/flying in general. I sat him in my rig, goggles on, hot start in the F/A-18C on the Stennis, and he flew for an hour. Afterwards he said it was the best VR experience he's had so far, and he had VR long before I did.

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Yeah I sat a friend of my in the tomcat with my old CV1, and aside from the readability issues, he was blown away. I need to get him down to try it with the Reverb.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I had mentioned this in another section:

 

 

I was completely happy with TrackHat and having a big awesome flat monitor. Loved the 4K plus graphics...until...

 

 

In San Diego I sat in a F-14D cockpit at the USS Midway museum.

 

 

It was great! I knew where everything was, the layout familiar...

 

 

But the POV was completely wrong! I had to look down to see things where on the flat screen everything was sort of squished into your field of view. The ACM panel in reality was really close to you! In yo face even!

 

 

It was easy to see around the rails of the canopy and windshield; something head tracking didn't seem to address.

 

 

I knew I had to see what VR looked like...

 

 

Rift S later and though not as crisp, the POV was EXACT to the Tomcat on the Midway!!! It was jarring...not to mention actually craning your head to see the ship in the pattern...the 3D advantage in refueling...ACM...

 

 

And your inner ear being fooled by your vision when pushing the aircraft around...whoa!!!

 

 

Never going back...


Edited by Ryano4242
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Yeah I recall thinking to myself the first time I fired up my Rift damn, that UFC is right in your face on the harrier. And then glancing to either side of it. It was quite cool.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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My big "wow!" moment was in Richard Burns Rally, I think back in the DK2 days, taking off over an unexpected Jump and couldn't help myself shouting out loud! Wouldn't have batted an eyelid with monitors.

Intel i5 8600K 4.8GHz · Palit RTX 2080 Ti Gaming Pro · TUF Z370 Pro · HP Reverb Pro · 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 1Tb SSD · 32Gb G-Skill 3200MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Thrustmaster Warthog . JetSeat

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Yeah I recall thinking to myself the first time I fired up my Rift damn, that UFC is right in your face on the harrier. And then glancing to either side of it. It was quite cool.

I was amazed by how small the Hornet's cockpit really is. And then I got into the Huey. "Spacious" instantly had a new meaning. :D

 

 

I love VR.

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I was amazed by how small the Hornet's cockpit really is. And then I got into the Huey. "Spacious" instantly had a new meaning. :D

 

 

I love VR.

A-10C cockpit also feels more spacious than Hornet, the side consoles are doubled.

i5 8400 | 32 Gb RAM | RTX 2080Ti | Virpil Mongoose T-50 base w/ Warthog & Hornet sticks | Warthog throttle | Cougar throttle USB | Virpil desk mount | VKB T-Rudder Mk IV | Oculus Rift S | Buddy-Fox A-10 UFC | 3 TM MFDs | Realteus ForceFeel | 2x bass shakers

FC3 - Warthog - F-5E - Harrier - Hornet - Tomcat - Huey - Viper - C-101 - NTTR - PG - Mi8 - SuperCarrier - Syria - Warthog II

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Yeah I sat a friend of my in the tomcat with my old CV1, and aside from the readability issues, he was blown away. I need to get him down to try it with the Reverb.

 

 

Is the reverb much more inmersive than Oculus CV1? I mean in DCS, or any other simulators (like xplane, aerofly, flyinside...), because these are the only "games" I really play. Is the reverb a night and day change, as I have read? Thanks

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Is the reverb much more inmersive than Oculus CV1? I mean in DCS, or any other simulators (like xplane, aerofly, flyinside...), because these are the only "games" I really play. Is the reverb a night and day change, as I have read? Thanks
From my experience both the Reverb and Index are a huge leap from the CV1. I originally got DCS when I had the CV1 but it wasn't until I could see the cockpit and surroundings so much better I really have got into it. For me at least yes it is night & day.

Intel i5 8600K 4.8GHz · Palit RTX 2080 Ti Gaming Pro · TUF Z370 Pro · HP Reverb Pro · 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 1Tb SSD · 32Gb G-Skill 3200MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Thrustmaster Warthog . JetSeat

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From my experience both the Reverb and Index are a huge leap from the CV1. I originally got DCS when I had the CV1 but it wasn't until I could see the cockpit and surroundings so much better I really have got into it. For me at least yes it is night & day.

 

 

Thank you. I am really happy with my CV1, but we are always looking for improvements, don´t we?

 

 

Nevermind, turning back to the topic, never going back to a flat screen...

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Is the Reverb much more inmersive than Oculus CV1? I mean in DCS, or any other simulators (like xplane, aerofly, flyinside...), because these are the only "games" I really play. Is the reverb a night and day change, as I have read? Thanks
CV1 to Reverb: Big change

 

Rft S to Reverb: Not night and day. The Reverb is better in some ways and worse in others.

 

Is the Reverb $200-$250 better than the Rift S? In my opinion....No way. But ymmv. :)

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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Is the reverb much more inmersive than Oculus CV1? I mean in DCS, or any other simulators (like xplane, aerofly, flyinside...), because these are the only "games" I really play. Is the reverb a night and day change, as I have read? Thanks

 

Immersive is a slippery term that means different things to different people.

 

For me the night and day difference is the resolution. In the CV1 you constantly have to use VR zoom to read/understand MFD's or read instrument lettering. I actually got quite good at knowing instinctively which MFD buttons to push because I couldn't actually read the lettering using the CV1. It was like I was flying with 20/60 vision. The reverb is night and day better, I can read even tiny instruments, and notice details that were basically invisible in the CV1 (for example grooved surfaces on the runway).

 

But there is more to immersion for some folks than just resolution. The color depth/rendering is way better on the CV1 as the most striking example. The sound seems better on the CV1 as well. And the occulus controllers are better. Tracking is more consistent on the rift as well (external vs internal) but mostly not a big deal. For me these are relatively minor issues. Compared to the increased clarity, readability, and spotting that the Reverb offers.

 

If you are only playing flight sims (all I do) then the controllers are a moot point. And all the current gen headsets are using LCD panels vs OLED of the first generation so they all take a hit color depth wise. If I cared much about sound the Reverb has a 3.5mm jack so I can dismount the built in speakers and plug in whatever headset I want, but I don't care enough.

 

For me, the resolution is the most important thing and I'm willing to make the relatively small tradeoffs (for me) in terms of color/sound/controllers. Nothing beats just being able to read your instruments without worrying about, or reading the labels by them. And being able to spot aircraft in MP is a major plus.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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CV1 to Reverb: Big change

 

Rft S to Reverb: Not night and day. The Reverb is better in some ways and worse in others.

 

Is the Reverb $200-$250 better than the Rift S? In my opinion....No way. But ymmv. :)

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

I thought you finally got the Reverb running better? And it was now night and day better?

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I thought you finally got the Reverb running better? And it was now night and day better?
Clarity wise in the center it is very good. Unfortunately, that's the only way it really seems better than the Rift S for me. I enjoyed the clarity very much, and although I enjoyed this aspect, the heavy cable, limited sweet spot (as compared to the Rift S) and lack of comfort (compared to the Rift S) was just too many strikes against it. I returned my Reverb yesterday.

 

With regards to clarity, the Reverb is excellent, but the Rift S is very good. There is a difference in clarity, but when you compare the two and all the pros and cons, the Reverb, for me, just ended up having too many cons vs pros.

 

The heavy and rigid cable has to be the most annoying aspect of the headset though. It was very noticable while playing DCS and in found myself continuously reaching up to adjust the cable. This was really annoying. Lol

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Edited by JG27_Arklight

Ark

------------------

Windows 10 Pro x64

9900K @ 5ghz

Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390

32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB CAS 14

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Ultra XC2

256gb Samsung 869 Pro (Boot Drive)

1TB - Samsung 970 EVO Plus

Seasoninc 1000w Titanium Ultra PSU

34" ASUS PG348

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Clarity wise in the center it is very good. Unfortunately, that's the only way it really seems better than the Rift S for me. I enjoyed the clarity very much, and although I enjoyed this aspect, the heavy cable, limited sweet spot (as compared to the Rift S) and lack of comfort (compared to the Rift S) was just too many strikes against it. I returned my Reverb yesterday.

 

With regards to clarity, the Reverb is excellent, but the Rift S is very good. There is a difference in clarity, but when you compare the two and all the pros and cons, the Reverb, for me, just ended up having too many cons vs pros.

 

The heavy and rigid cable has to be the most annoying aspect of the headset though. It was very noticable while playing DCS and in found myself continuously reaching up to adjust the cable. This was really annoying. Lol

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

Its funny, but I don't find any of things a problem, but to each their own. I'm surprised by the comfort comment because the rift seems much more comfortable to me than the old CV1, which wasn't really bad comfort wise.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Immersive is a slippery term that means different things to different people.

 

For me the night and day difference is the resolution. In the CV1 you constantly have to use VR zoom to read/understand MFD's or read instrument lettering. I actually got quite good at knowing instinctively which MFD buttons to push because I couldn't actually read the lettering using the CV1. It was like I was flying with 20/60 vision. The reverb is night and day better, I can read even tiny instruments, and notice details that were basically invisible in the CV1 (for example grooved surfaces on the runway).

 

But there is more to immersion for some folks than just resolution. The color depth/rendering is way better on the CV1 as the most striking example. The sound seems better on the CV1 as well. And the occulus controllers are better. Tracking is more consistent on the rift as well (external vs internal) but mostly not a big deal. For me these are relatively minor issues. Compared to the increased clarity, readability, and spotting that the Reverb offers.

 

If you are only playing flight sims (all I do) then the controllers are a moot point. And all the current gen headsets are using LCD panels vs OLED of the first generation so they all take a hit color depth wise. If I cared much about sound the Reverb has a 3.5mm jack so I can dismount the built in speakers and plug in whatever headset I want, but I don't care enough.

 

For me, the resolution is the most important thing and I'm willing to make the relatively small tradeoffs (for me) in terms of color/sound/controllers. Nothing beats just being able to read your instruments without worrying about, or reading the labels by them. And being able to spot aircraft in MP is a major plus.

 

Thank you for your explanation.

 

 

The controllers are not too much important for me, because I have ordered Pointctrl (as you did, I think)

 

 

Well, I see it is hard to choose the best headset for dcs, and it depends on the personal preferences...

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Well, I see it is hard to choose the best headset for DCS, and it depends on personal preferences...

 

As always did in VR, personal preferences.

 

So my personal preferences are an advantage in spotting targets in the air and ground to be competitive on MP servers and for that, there is only one proper choice. Only Reverb here has a clear advantage among all the other VR HMDs. Only HMD compared with Monitor. Best choice for Flight and Race sims because Reverb advantages affecting on your in games performing.

 

The second choice will be Rift-S as a great all-rounder with well balanced features and great price. If my preferences are not in Flight or Race Sims maybe this will be my first choice. Great value per $ for sure.

 

The third choice is Samsung O+. If you prefer more OLED displays with better colors and need manual IPD adjustment for 300$ it is still a great choice.

 

All other VR HMD is maybe technically better but advantages are minor compared to the higher price they cost. Simply not worth the price they ask for it.


Edited by wormeaten
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OK MrBurns, you have heard from the rest now all you need to know is from your mate metal :)

 

 

I was a big cockpit builder, made a number of them for myself and for other people. I always wanted to be as close to the sim as I could. For myself it was about being close to reality and I was never bothered about how competitive that might have made me in a multiplayer arena. OK, so I got shot down but who else had so much fun starting up and taking off again than I did with my pit? :)

 

I have had projectors and then went to 3x42" screens for DCS and for racing. At the time that was the ultimate with the pit that I was building.. Lots of buttons and big screens with TIR. I never had it better.

 

 

Then I went to VR and I have to say that my time with DCS diminished a lot. I did a lot more racing and the flying I was doing was in civilian sims more than DCS, e.g. xplane. DCS added VR but it was never quite there and to be honest it seems to lag bit behind other sims, specifically a number of racing sims and IL2. The current IL2 is great in VR.

 

 

So what happened for me is that I gave up my simpit because VR was too damn good and I searched out the best VR experiences which was racing in my area of interest. DCS has come a long way, I can fly in dcs for as long as I want. Preciously I could play pretty much anything I wanted in VR for a long time but DCS always made me a little motion sick. It didnt have the fluidity that other titles did but it has overcome that and is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was. Things still dont seem as clear in DCS as they do in other sims, i.e. gauges are not as clear as they seem to be in other games at the same distance.

 

 

One this is for sure, the only thing I dont do in VR these days is the odd bit of counterstrike or similar which I do on another computer if I am in the mood. When it comes to anything else it is VR all the time. Across the serious simulators (racing and flight) I have seen two types of people. They either fall for VR so that there is no going back or they look at VR and get fixated on the graphics and want to go back to their screens.

 

 

As far as being competitive and VR putting you at a disadvantage I don't see any real evidence of this as there are great racers/flyers using both. In either genre I will get beaten by guys in VR or in screens. If people admit it, there is still a lot of skill involved and one format will not make you a master over another.

 

 

Practice makes perfect and you can adapt to anything you want to. I have done a lot of coaching and many people dont want to make changes to what they do because of the short term decline in their performance while they get used to a new technique. I see the same thing here.. It's not that VR will make you worse in the long term but you will have to adapt, things may be different and if you dont recognise that then you may want to write it off immediately. If being in the top 5% is not something that you aspire to then my last paragraph may not be applicable.

 

 

Pitbuilders put a lot of money in to our hobby. The best I can do is encourage you to buy something like the rift S and give it a good go. If it doesnt work out then you are out a couple hundred dollars after you flick it off. I think it's the best way, try it for yourself and dont be afraid that what drives you now may not be your priority in the future.

 

 

Building pits was a great hobby of mine, many $$ and hours spent doing it. No regrets but it's been replaced with more time in the sim than out of it, actually using it and having a lot of fun.

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OK MrBurns, you have heard from the rest now all you need to know is from your mate metal :)
and a great post it was too!

Intel i5 8600K 4.8GHz · Palit RTX 2080 Ti Gaming Pro · TUF Z370 Pro · HP Reverb Pro · 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 1Tb SSD · 32Gb G-Skill 3200MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Thrustmaster Warthog . JetSeat

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  • 10 months later...

I'm considering pre-ordering the Reverb G2. I'm building a new computer, and I have a question for you experts out there...Basic computer specs are:

 

Ryzen 7 3700X

Gigabyte AORUS X570 Master

32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600

2TB M.2-2280 NvME

 

The question is: Should I spend the extra $$$ for an RTX 2080 Super, or will the RTX 2070 Super be enough? I have the budget for the 2080, but I don't want to spend money I don't have to.

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It's never enough with VR. It wasn't clear if you already have 2070 or trying to decide between the two. If you already have 2070, I would say 2080 is not worth the money.

If not and you're trying to choose between the two, 2080 might be worth the extra couple hundred. But I'd wait couple months when 3000 series comes out. Then you will have more options. Either buy the 3000 series or 2000 series for cheaper.

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I'm considering pre-ordering the Reverb G2. I'm building a new computer, and I have a question for you experts out there...Basic computer specs are:

 

Ryzen 7 3700X

Gigabyte AORUS X570 Master

32GB (2x16GB) DDR4-3600

2TB M.2-2280 NvME

 

The question is: Should I spend the extra $$$ for an RTX 2080 Super, or will the RTX 2070 Super be enough? I have the budget for the 2080, but I don't want to spend money I don't have to.

 

 

IMO if you have the budget you should go for the 2080. You won't regret.

 

Regards

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



Phoenix

F-16C

 

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-2400MHz, GTX 1080, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, Oculus Rift S

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IMO the 3080 will likely be worth waiting for . The extra 2 gig of VRAM will prove helpful when Vulkan drops , which should be in the 30xx life cycle .

9700k , Aorus Pro wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Hotas on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , RiftS

 

"Hold my beer"

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Thanks guys. I figured the 3xxx series would be stupid expensive, but you aren't the first ones to suggest they'll be affordable (and worth the wait...)

 

Since I'll only be flying on a {EDIT} 27" 2K monitor until the Reverb G2 is available, I think it's smarter to get a GTX 1660 Super and wait on the 3060.


Edited by eracer1111
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