To VR or not to VR

[hansangb]

That's exacly the point: "very similar to a 1080P 2D monitor"

is not NEARLY enough resolution.

 

 

That is *not* the point. It's about the total package. The sense of flying, of sitting in fighter/helo of your choice. Your missing the ENTIRE point.

 

I'll state it again. You can look at a picture of Grand Canyon in 4k, 8K. Or you can be there. It's a personal choice and I choose the latter.

 

Ultimately, it's the same "is VR good or bad" thread that we've had ad nuaseum. It's a personal choice. To each his own. Enjoy your 4K, 8K, 16K monitors. Enjoy your brand of HMD. I think Mr. Burns got enough data points.

Edited August 11, 2019 by hansangb

[Rosebud47]

I would say, there are pros and contras, if you defenitely want to look for it, but perceiving DCS through a high-res monitor on your desk is a totally different thing from VR.

[Bun]

Find a buddy with a Reverb and your favorite module and make up your mind at his place. Everything you hear from people who love/hate VR is biased by the time and money invested in VR. I went from a 1080p monitor to SO+ and the first time I tried VR I said "Oh Hell Yeah".

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

As a corollary, read the other comments in this thread.

 

Nowhere do they say they function more effectively in VR compared to traditional displays, they focus more on the gimmick of immersion.

 

If you can't read cockpit instruments easily, if you can't spot targets around you easily, then you're functioning more like a passenger on an amusement park ride than a pilot in an F/A-18 in actual combat.

 

you sure your ipd is properly set? i have used my rift cV1 with a 1060 3gb and eventually got a 1080, and never felt that way. I'm able to spot a carrier or a tanker from around 20 miles out, obviously fighters at closer ranges and flying alongside some sqn partners who use monitors, visual contact doesn't seem an issue to me.

i also use three mfds and a ufc, so please tell me how I'm less useful then others. seriously never felt that way, quite the contrary but I'm assuming that happens because I'm putting a lot of flight hours simply because with vr i enjoy things a lot. so I'm getting better flying skills at all levels.

there is no way I'm waiting for vr technology to mature while not flying, cv1 for me is more than enough to jump the train and keep enjoying the journey. if everything goes good, i will upgrade to rift s. somehow I'm on a tight budget so i can afford more expensive stuff and don't think it's worth because those models also age as tech evolves.

also fly xplane, and simracing with assetto, ac competizione, rfactor2 and more and then other games like robo recall or beat saber.

did you also try vr stol or xplane or other flight sims like aero fly 2?

is dcs the only software disappointing you?

[remi]

That is *not* the point. It's about the total package. The sense of flying, of sitting in fighter/helo of your choice. Your missing the ENTIRE point.

 

I'll state it again. You can look at a picture of Grand Canyon in 4k, 8K. Or you can be there. It's a personal choice and I choose the latter.

 

You keep mentioning gimmicks as the main draw to DCS VR, but most people use DCS to study aircraft systems and fly tactical missions.

 

The fun of sitting in a cockpit is quickly lost when you realize you have 25% of the combat effectiveness of an actual pilot.

[remi]

you sure your ipd is properly set? i have used my rift cV1 with a 1060 3gb and eventually got a 1080, and never felt that way. I'm able to spot a carrier or a tanker from around 20 miles out, obviously fighters at closer ranges and flying alongside some sqn partners who use monitors, visual contact doesn't seem an issue to me.

i also use three mfds and a ufc, so please tell me how I'm less useful then others. seriously never felt that way, quite the contrary but I'm assuming that happens because I'm putting a lot of flight hours simply because with vr i enjoy things a lot. so I'm getting better flying skills at all levels.

there is no way I'm waiting for vr technology to mature while not flying, cv1 for me is more than enough to jump the train and keep enjoying the journey. if everything goes good, i will upgrade to rift s. somehow I'm on a tight budget so i can afford more expensive stuff and don't think it's worth because those models also age as tech evolves.

also fly xplane, and simracing with assetto, ac competizione, rfactor2 and more and then other games like robo recall or beat saber.

did you also try vr stol or xplane or other flight sims like aero fly 2?

is dcs the only software disappointing you?

 

IPD set up properly. I use X-Plane too, and satisfied. DCS is the only thing I'm disappointed in.

 

Try the 8v8 Hornet instant action mission and see how effective you are. Your win percentage might be 0% (and even then you might still be shooting down your buddies in WVR because of difficulty identifying aircraft.

[dburne]

Like the promised 50% VR performance improvement that never materialized?

 

It did for some and last I saw ED was collecting data from those it didn't, at least from ones willing to provide it.

[Rossterman]

I’m in the VR camp as the experience is amazing and immersion can’t be beat. That being said, graphic cards and headsets aren’t fully up to the task yet so you give up resolution and fps to fly in VR. I started with a hp 1st gen headset and now have the samsung + which is a decent upgrade over the HP in fov and sde. That being said, I wish it was 5 years later as at that point likely there will be zero disadvantages going VR over a screen. At present it still compelling- In 5 years it will be a no brainer a d haptic gloves will eliminate the need for elaborate controllers outside of the stick and pedals as you will be able to effortlessly turn knobs and dials in VR.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Rossterman

[eaglecash867]

I’m in the VR camp as the experience is amazing and immersion can’t be beat. That being said, graphic cards and headsets aren’t fully up to the task yet so you give up resolution and fps to fly in VR. I started with a hp 1st gen headset and now have the samsung + which is a decent upgrade over the HP in fov and sde. That being said, I wish it was 5 years later as at that point likely there will be zero disadvantages going VR over a screen. At present it still compelling- In 5 years it will be a no brainer a d haptic gloves will eliminate the need for elaborate controllers outside of the stick and pedals as you will be able to effortlessly turn knobs and dials in VR.

 

The current upper end graphics cards do just fine with the HP Reverb. In fact, the performance is actually significantly better with the Reverb than with lower resolution HMDs because you no longer need a bunch of extra processing power for running SS and PD above native.

[eaglecash867]

IPD set up properly. I use X-Plane too, and satisfied. DCS is the only thing I'm disappointed in.

 

Try the 8v8 Hornet instant action mission and see how effective you are. Your win percentage might be 0% (and even then you might still be shooting down your buddies in WVR because of difficulty identifying aircraft.

 

If you're using a previous generation headset, yes, that might be true. No problems with spotting and identifying aircraft with the Reverb though. :)

[hansangb]

you sure your ipd is properly set? i have used my rift cV1 with a 1060 3gb and eventually got a 1080, and never felt that way. I'm able to spot a carrier or a tanker from around 20 miles out, obviously fighters at closer ranges and flying alongside some sqn partners who use monitors, visual contact doesn't seem an issue to me.

i also use three mfds and a ufc, so please tell me how I'm less useful then others. seriously never felt that way, quite the contrary but I'm assuming that happens because I'm putting a lot of flight hours simply because with vr i enjoy things a lot. so I'm getting better flying skills at all levels.

there is no way I'm waiting for vr technology to mature while not flying, cv1 for me is more than enough to jump the train and keep enjoying the journey. if everything goes good, i will upgrade to rift s. somehow I'm on a tight budget so i can afford more expensive stuff and don't think it's worth because those models also age as tech evolves.

also fly xplane, and simracing with assetto, ac competizione, rfactor2 and more and then other games like robo recall or beat saber.

did you also try vr stol or xplane or other flight sims like aero fly 2?

is dcs the only software disappointing you?

 

I'm not sure what remi is talking about. I have him blocked so I can't see his posts directly (I don't know him from Adam, but he says two things: VR sucks, and you're an idiot if you buy anything computer related since there is a new version that's coming out in 0-X months. I got tired of it after a while and used the block feature.)

 

But with Reverb, I can easily spot planes 5-10 miles out. I've seen IRL pilots who say that's about the limit in optimum conditions. I have a test mission that I created just to test this. Reverb is changing what visibility can be in VR. There is *NO* instrument that I cannot read.

 

Now with CV1, yes, it can be challenging to read some stuff. But it wasn't impossible. You can use the VR Zoom function or lean in a bit. But clearly, Reverb is *WAY* better in terms of clarity.

 

 

"gimmick" ? Not so much.

[jojo]

Currently I'm having fun doing DACT with my Rift S in M-2000C.

While watching Track replay on 1080p screen, I noticed I visually spot contact against sky background about the same range.

(MiG-29 head on 6 to 7 Nm).

 

VID is more challenging than IRL because of resolution not high enough.

 

But when you're turning your head to keep visual on target while turning and trying to avoid G-LOC, you forget about SDE, OLED colors and stuff like that.

 

1440p RGB matrix is already usable.

Anything with higher resolution that can decently run is even better.

 

Watch some gameplay video YouTube, how many times do they use crazy zoom level to VID ?

I do too when playing on flat screen.

Limit that zoom and VID on screen won't be any better...

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

Yeah, reading instruments is not much of an issue for me, with three things in mind:

- VR zoom

- physically leaning toward the panel

- always moving the default head position forward, closer to the HUD/front panel. Default point of view feels like the pilot is suporting the head against the headrest

[remi]

 

Watch some gameplay video YouTube, how many times do they use crazy zoom level to VID ?

I do too when playing on flat screen.

Limit that zoom and VID on screen won't be any better...

 

They are using 1080p mostly, some 1440p. Very few run 4k.

[Lenux]

I'm still, after about 2 years, undecided

Should I get VR or should I not ?

Money is not an issue, the only thing I can't understand, is the way you " find " all the buttons you need

Throttle, joystick, keyboard...

As every DCS player knows, when flying over Caucasus map, there is no " sense -perception of speed "

Sometime, when I fly the F18 / F14 / M2000C / very low altitude, I have the feeling I drive a fast car

Is that the same with VR ?

Which VR headset would you recommend, guys ?

I7 9700K@5.0 GHz, 32 GB DDR4, RTX 2080 Ti

Thank you

Edited August 12, 2019 by Lenux

[Harlikwin]

 

 

Out of interest, I enjoy flying 1080p - how much worse is VR?

 

If you can afford a reverb and the system to run it (mine for example) then its comparable to 1080p. Other headsets are worse.

[Lenux]

If you can afford a reverb and the system to run it (mine for example) then its comparable to 1080p. Other headsets are worse.

 

I'm not sure if that's a good example.

Right now, I'm using a 55 inches 4k TV

Is that 1080p? Something like... 27 inches 1080p

Same PPI

[streakeagle]

The cost difference between having VR and not having VR is practically nothing if you already have a decent gpu (i.e GTX 1070 or better). A Rift S is very affordable, has decent graphics, and decent performance. At the same time, a 46-65 inch 4k tv that is fairly good for flight sims costs about the same as a VR setup. So I have both and enjoy the best of both worlds. I will say that since I have upgraded from the original Rift (CV1?), I have shifted from about a 50/50 split to a 75/25 split between VR and a flat screen with TrackIR. But playing at max quality on a large 4K TV with a steady 60 fps is still an experience that can't be matched by any VR headset presently available. At the same time, the immersion of the field of view and 1:1 tracking can't be matched by TrackIR and a flat panel monitor. So why not enjoy both?

[frogger]

burnsy, each person is different. some people will fly with an fps counter in the corner and even if they enjoy them self if the fps drops under 60 they crack it. while others can fly with 30 fps and enjoy it no worries. my advise is to post up to see if anyone in your area has a setup you can have a go on and see for yourself. you never know us aussies are normally willing to help each other out like that :P

[frogger]

as for gaming and having a vr pit , i have the pit next to my desk and i have dual monitors for everything else and at the very most i just have to plug in the vr headset when i want to fly. you could use your old pc once you upgrade to run all your normal games and have a dedicated flight sim pc as this will help to make vr run smoother if the pc is not full of crap.

[The LT]

Sold my vive pro. Tired of that 45fps "immersion". Would take a 4k screen with tir any day.

[remi]

I'm still, after about 2 years, undecided

Should I get VR or should I not ?

Money is not an issue, the only thing I can't understand, is the way you " find " all the buttons you need

Throttle, joystick, keyboard...

As every DCS player knows, when flying over Caucasus map, there is no " sense -perception of speed "

Sometime, when I fly the F18 / F14 / M2000C / very low altitude, I have the feeling I drive a fast car

Is that the same with VR ?

Which VR headset would you recommend, guys ?

I7 9700K@5.0 GHz, 32 GB DDR4, RTX 2080 Ti

Thank you

 

Don't get VR if it's only for DCS, it's just not ready yet.

 

However, if you're at all interested in other uses of VR like for games (space pirate trainer, beat Saber, superhot), Google Earth, tilt brush, then go for it, you'll love it.

 

I'd recommend the Valve Index just because the controls are so good for those fun VR games.

[TOViper]

there is no way I could go back to a 2d monitor. ... Powerful pc giving good FPS is a necessity though.

 

100% true.

I very seldom fly on my computer screen, and if ... yea just for testing my missions while designing them, nothing more.

A friend showed me his Oculus Rift someday ago, and it was the best idea I ever had to buy VR on the very next day, despite its "only" a Standard Oculus Rift.

Would not fly on a screen again, really!

No sickness ever occoured, the first session took me 11 hours on a go over Caucasus in the Hawk ...

Edited August 12, 2019 by TOViper

[Mmfed01]

If you can afford a RIFT S and your system can muscle it, give it a shot. I spent hours reading posts from various members (lots of good info) but you have to do your own homework. I'm very pleased with the RIFT S so far. Newer things are in the pipeline so I personally didn't want to spend over the amount of a RIFT S. It's a good starting point.

 

Mike

Edited August 12, 2019 by Mmfed01

[Harlikwin]

I'm not sure if that's a good example.

Right now, I'm using a 55 inches 4k TV

Is that 1080p? Something like... 27 inches 1080p

Same PPI

 

I'm using a 24" 1080p monitor maybe at 3ft distance for the comparison. The reverb center res roughly equal, the monitor might be a bit sharper but its in the ballpark. I find comparisons to large monitors not too helpful in this regard, because you have an "infinite sized" monitor when you use VR and the immersion is amazing even with a CV1. The reverb functionally has no SDE which also helps alot.

 

I can't go back to flat screen/track IR monitors, and that was with the old low-res crappy CV1, and that was good enough. The reverb is in comparison is amazing being the first "gen2" headset on the market. Its got its issues (edge blur/chromatic abberation/worse color palate vs OLED), but I think it basically sets the new standard for now, and in a year or two everything will be 2160x2160 res at a minimum.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Harlikwin