Will it stay like this?

[Rudel_chw]

... There are no game breaking bugs, ADF dial, paint kit, new cockpit and sounds and MiG-19S on the way

 

I've just checked my Mig-19, still:

 

1) No items on Failures Tab, reported on June: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242303

 

2) The Optical Target Range keybinds work perfectly: they increase/decrease gradually, and if the key is held the knob keeps moving.

 

However, the ASP-5 Dive Angle and the Target Wingspan keybinds increase/decrease very coarserly .. the wingspan changing in increments of more than 5 meters and the dive angle changes in increment of whole degrees. Also, if the key is held the knob doesnt keep moving, forcing the user to click it repeatedly. Reported on June: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242229

 

3) ADF Manual Frequency keybindings dont work, reported on May: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242058

 

4) To date, still no official Paintkit released, last news were these: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4041212&postcount=30

 

What bother me the most is that all these issues should be easy to fix: keybindings, the aircraft has a damage model so the failures tab shouldnt be hard to implement, and the developer created several liveries se they should have some form of Template as I doubt they made all those liveries from screatch each time.

 

I dont regret the purchase, but I haven't been able to properly use this aircraft :(

[AeriaGloria]

I agree, I think the ADF dial is most glaring of keybinds but honestly couldn’t think of all of them. Would make a big difference

[OverStratos]

Thanks for the list. I was looking for the issues in the forums to check if I don't miss any for our bug list. This pretty much resumes all the important aspects.

Also, even if the issues are easy to fix, coders have an schedule and right now the first modules are the ones that need attention. Soon it will be the MiG-19 turn.

[slicker55]

@OverStratos

Thank you, it is very encouraging to see developers taking a look at these threads and letting us know how things are progressing at their end.

When you say, 'Soon', do you know when work might start and when we might expect the issues discussed here to get sorted out?

[NobiWan]

Thanks for the list. I was looking for the issues in the forums to check if I don't miss any for our bug list. This pretty much resumes all the important aspects.

Also, even if the issues are easy to fix, coders have an schedule and right now the first modules are the ones that need attention. Soon it will be the MiG-19 turn.

 

 

I'm pretty sure you are aware of rainday's great collection:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3820474&postcount=14

 

 

Really looking forward to fully use this beautiful module! :thumbup:

[Rudel_chw]

Thanks for the list. I was looking for the issues in the forums to check if I don't miss any for our bug list. This pretty much resumes all the important aspects.

Also, even if the issues are easy to fix, coders have an schedule and right now the first modules are the ones that need attention. Soon it will be the MiG-19 turn.

 

Thanks a lot, really, for the detailed answer ... I will eagerly wait for these fixes, and afterwards I will hopefully share my currently uncomplete TM Cougar Hotas profile:

 

 

... and also, will then be able to complete my Series of Practice missions for the -19:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=234073

 

Thanks again and cheers!

 

 

Eduardo

[Shibbyland]

Is the flight model for this aircraft really a reasonable representation of the actual aircraft?

 

Unlike many aircraft in DCS I think it lacks ‘feel’. The pitch and roll rate is insane and remains insane even at high speed. It’s almost arcade like once it’s in the air.

 

Obviously I’ve never flown a mig 19 but yea I expected it to be a bit more of a challenge to fly.

[terminator345]

That's how I feel too. The way the plane handles is very arcadey. After a high AoA manoeuvre the plane always snaps itself back without me having to do anything (hard to spin or stall - plane corrects itself really quickly). The plane seems to react too much too quickly to stick inputs, to feel realistic (not much feel of weight?). After a certain speed is reached the cockpit camera starts shaking to indicate max speed I suppose, but there's no visual vibrating/flexing with the wings, they're stiff as a rock.

 

Overall the flight model just doesn't really feel believable - kinda feels like the plane's flying on rails.

Edited October 23, 2019 by terminator345

[Harlikwin]

That's how I feel too. The way the plane handles is very arcadey. After a high AoA manoeuvre the plane always snaps itself back without me having to do anything (hard to spin or stall - plane corrects itself really quickly). The plane seems to react too much too quickly to stick inputs, to feel realistic (not much feel of weight?). After a certain speed is reached the cockpit camera starts shaking to indicate max speed I suppose, but there's no visual vibrating/flexing with the wings, they're stiff as a rock.

 

Overall the flight model just doesn't really feel believable - kinda feels like the plane's flying on rails.

 

Thats the typical Razbam FM "feel" based on the mirage and harrier at least.

[OverStratos]

Sorry people, I'm not a PR guy, so I apologize if my post is somehow crude. I'm not also a native english speaker so I try to do my best to explain stuff.

As it was pointed out many times before by me, we can't work on a FM with "feel" data neither fix it. The MiG-19P FM is based on the MiG-19S practical aerodynamics manual which is equivalent to a Western performance manual. Many aspects of the FM were tunned specifically for the P variant which is draggier and heavier than the S. Most of the FM behavior in the aircraft now is correct, this includes under high AOA situations, turn and pitch rate, etc. Still to include are several aircraft limitations in regarding to maneuvering, landing and engines as well as the ITR and STR performance.

 

If anyone still has doubts about the MiG-19 FM you are welcome to open a new thread with your proof, I will make it a sticky and we will happily discuss there. I just want to point out that please bring charts and documentation as proof. Regarding our proof, there's is a thread in this sub-forum with enough info about the 19 FM quality. Pardon me if I don't provide the link, but I'm writing from my phone.

 

About the M2000 and Harrier FM I'm sorry but I don't know anything about that as they are not my work. However, comparing those FMs to the MiG-19 one is not correct as the later was done with gained experience, new knowledge and new tools.

[OverStratos]

Regarding the "wing flex" visual effect, you won't see it on this aircraft. Because of the wing thickness and design, it is really sturdy so it won't flex enough for this to be visible. We are sorry, but we won't use arcady effects to make our modules look cooler, we are entitled with realism in DCS.

[OverStratos]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=236511

 

Who would had thought that I was able to find the link:D

Everyone can also check the open beta changelog per updates to see every improvement and fix to the FM since then.

[Rudel_chw]

... we can't work on a FM with "feel" data neither fix it..

 

I understand ... my complaints about the -19 are mostly about the ways we can interact with its systems, I wouldn't dare to criticize the FM as I’ve never piloted one for real :)

 

... always find amusing how some people seems To be experts on FM, when they actually have never even sat on one of these aircrafts .. :D

 

Thanks anyway for explaining ..and for the link, it’s a very interesting reading.

Cheers,

 

 

Eduardo

[HWasp]

I think the FM has improved a lot since release. Couldn't touch it back then, now it is very enjoyable imo. :thumbup:

 

Not sure if those 2 guys last page have updated their DCS last 6 month or flown the plane since then...

- Control effectiveness does change with speed, seems to me both high aoa and high speed transonic effects are modeled

- the ARU 2 does decrease max elevator deflection with speed increasing, so it doesn't feel jumpy at all high speed.

- if I would switch off the ARU CB it feels like an F-5 at high speed (elevator)

 

One thing that is strange for me is when I start pulling G smoothly, looking at the G meter, there seems to be a spike at quite low AoA, then G starts to decrease slightly, even though it is quite far from stall AoA

[Schmidtfire]

Is it good to switch off the ARU when entering a dogfight? I always struggle with high AoA. Very difficult to get the nose up on target.

[HWasp]

Well, right now you can get better performance with ARU off, using careful inputs.

[terminator345]

I have no doubt the flight model is tuned to match the performance and characteristics figures of the real plane as close as possible. I appreciate the work that goes into that. What I said before was based purely on feel, and that's a subjective area since it's hard to quantify in figures. So I'm definitely not saying that something's right or wrong (I can't judge since I've never flown the real thing of course), but these are just some general observations I made based on my opinion:

 

- The plane flies very stable, almost like it's guided or fly by wire. There's not much sway in flight, and after a high AoA manoeuvre the plane snaps itself back 'on course' very quickly, and precisely. Kind of like a spring.

 

- I feel that the plane responds very quickly and sensitively to my stick inputs. With the other non fly by wire modules I have (3 WW2 pistons and the F 86), there's some slack to the stick especially at low speeds. For example with those other modules, during landing I'm inclined to move my stick around just before touchdown, like this guy flying a Mig 17 IRL (at 13:20):

Maybe I should try tuning down my stick sensitivity in the settings for the mig 19, but I didn't have to do that with the other modules. Or maybe that's just how the 19 flies, I don't know.

 

Overall just based on my very rough, probably inaccurate gut feeling, the flight model feels like it's built around some point in the middle and my inputs in flight rotate around that point. I don't get the sensation of weight to the aircraft as much as I do with the other modules I have. Or maybe I'm just not used to the 19 yet.

 

Not that all that meant as criticism. Cause after all... what does a guy who's never flown a real mig 19 know... maybe the real life plane does indeed fly like that and if that's the case I stand corrected :D

 

OTOH from my experience the buttons and systems that people said weren't working on launch day mostly seem to be fixed. The knobs, lights etc seem to work as they should. I'm happy with that. In the cockpit view you sit really far forward if you don't zoom out with the camera, a little odd. But the sound... with the cockpit closed the engine is so quiet I pretty much can't hear it at all, just all wind noise. That's what the 19 is like IRL?

Edited October 24, 2019 by terminator345

[Bagpipe]

I just got the f86, have had the mig for a while now. Most of the time during maneuvering you are doing 250-300kts, with the -19 i would say more like between 350-450kts with a much more powerful engine behind you so the plane will be snappier imo.

If you drop the speed down to 250kts (460km/h) you will notice much more "sway", possibly too much tbh as the thing tends to rock and stall and spin and generally fall out the sky like a rock.

 

Its a beast to master, i am still trying months down the line.

[OverStratos]

If you drop the speed down to 250kts (460km/h) you will notice much more "sway", possibly too much tbh as the thing tends to rock and stall and spin and generally fall out the sky like a rock.

 

Its a beast to master, i am still trying months down the line.

 

 

From the pilot´s manual, when the aircraft is approaching max AOA, the pilot should stop pulling and let the stick move forward slightly. Visually, this means to allow Gs to decrease slightly as this aircraft doesn´t has an AOA meter. This allows to recover lateral stability and the aircraft will keep turning at a good rate. If an increase in speed is noticed this means you can pull more.

[Bagpipe]

Yeah it's great fun and very well made imo

[Schmidtfire]

How do I switch off the ARU?

[HWasp]

On the right side slightly behind you open the circuit breaker panel door (transparent) and switch off the CB that has ARU in it's name. That will switch it off and reset it to the low speed config (max elevator deflection/stick input ratio)