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Munition combos VTOed in with 100% fuel?


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For me on the caucuses map, I managed to VTO with 2 mk82 bombs and 2 pods of 7rkt (HE) with 100% fuel, totalling about 23,500 (correction 24,111) lbs or so, managed to burn about 200lbs of H2O before getting enough lift to turn it off.

 

So this loadout you can do a little minor dirt flicking/street sweeping, but are completely defenseless against enemy air assets.

 

Instead of cycling through all the weapon loadouts and experimenting needlessly for hours, I just wanted to ask the community what their personal heaviest loadouts they managed to VTOed in to sort of get the jist of the useful combos you can go vertical in.

 

For example, did anyone manage to get off the ground with both AA missiles as well as A/G munitions?

 

Edit: no, I didn't thumbs down this post on purpose, I tried to change it to the normal no icon then smiley icon but it just changes the title above and not the forum title.


Edited by WelshZeCorgi
Stupid thumbs down in title.
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For me on the caucuses map, I managed to VTO with 2 mk48 bombs and 2 pods of 7rkt (HE) with 100% fuel, totalling about 23,500 lbs or so, managed to burn about 200lbs of H2O before getting enough lift to turn it off.

 

So this loadout you can do a little minor dirt flicking/street sweeping, but are completely defenseless against enemy air assets.

 

Instead of cycling through all the weapon loadouts and experimenting needlessly for hours, I just wanted to ask the community what their personal heaviest loadouts they managed to VTOed in to sort of get the jist of the useful combos you can go vertical in.

 

For example, did anyone manage to get off the ground with both AA missiles as well as A/G munitions?

 

23500lbs. seems awfully light with that amount of ordinance and 100% fuel. I know just 100% fuel alone has my bird around 23,500.

 

However, I do routinely VTO/VL with that weight because the short carrier VL training missions didn't teach me to fuel dump, so you have full fuel and land heavy. I got used to it. You definitely need water to hover at that weight.

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I fly on the server "BLUEFLAG" and there are times when it’s far to fly to the airfield and it’s easier to catch the nearest farp. There I already hang 4x MAV and 2 AIM-9 or 4x GBU-16, fuel 50%, take off vertically.

Sorry for my bad english.

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I fly on the server "BLUEFLAG" and there are times when it’s far to fly to the airfield and it’s easier to catch the nearest farp. There I already hang 4x MAV and 2 AIM-9 or 4x GBU-16, fuel 50%, take off vertically.

 

TPOD too, or not?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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23500lbs. seems awfully light with that amount of ordinance and 100% fuel. I know just 100% fuel alone has my bird around 23,500.

 

However, I do routinely VTO/VL with that weight because the short carrier VL training missions didn't teach me to fuel dump, so you have full fuel and land heavy. I got used to it. You definitely need water to hover at that weight.

 

I went back and did the same loadout. It was actually 24,111 lbs. Barely get's the plane off the ground though. Burned through 100 lbs of H2O to get 100ft off the ground.

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For me on the caucuses map, I managed to VTO with 2 mk82 bombs and 2 pods of 7rkt (HE) with 100% fuel, totalling about 23,500 (correction 24,111) lbs or so, managed to burn about 200lbs of H2O before getting enough lift to turn it off.

 

So this loadout you can do a little minor dirt flicking/street sweeping, but are completely defenseless against enemy air assets.

 

Instead of cycling through all the weapon loadouts and experimenting needlessly for hours, I just wanted to ask the community what their personal heaviest loadouts they managed to VTOed in to sort of get the jist of the useful combos you can go vertical in.

 

For example, did anyone manage to get off the ground with both AA missiles as well as A/G munitions?

 

What you have to remember is that in real life pilots have a very specific mission when they take off. The load outs that we take in DCS would never happen in real life. For example it’s normal for a Hornet, which can carry much more than the harrier, to take off with 2 fuel tanks and 1 JDAM and 1 Maverick. Or 1 JDAM and 1 GBU. They will carry winders and 1 or two AMRAMS for self defense. This is because each pilot is assigned 1 target. That’s it.

 

The Harrier is no different. It has a specific mission. If there is an enemy air threat they would have CAP sanitizing the area for the Harriers providing CAS. The point Of the harrier for the marines was for it to be forward deployed and operate out of a FARP to be a quick reaction aircraft to infantry on the ground. The harrier will carry one or two weapons and rotate in and out with other Harriers while refueling and reloading, at the FARP, if needed.

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Real life is of no concern for many DCS Pilots.

 

I would say it's no concern to ED either, since DCS is lacking features / has bugs and inconsistencies that hardly allow the realistic employment of aircraft and weapons.

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I would say it's no concern to ED either, since DCS is lacking features / has bugs and inconsistencies that hardly allow the realistic employment of aircraft and weapons.

 

Besides bugs or WIP items, because bugs will get fixed and WIP will get finished, besides classified items, what specifically is not modeled. And none of the “well this aircraft was capable of carrying xxx and the Mongolians put it on theirs. What specifically is not modeled for the aircraft that is specific to year, lot, block, and country of origin? They are pretty clear on all this. So an argument for the capability of a Australian FA-18C does not matter if the product is a US NAVY FA-18C lot 20 aircraft.

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Besides bugs or WIP items, because bugs will get fixed and WIP will get finished, besides classified items, what specifically is not modeled. And none of the “well this aircraft was capable of carrying xxx and the Mongolians put it on theirs. What specifically is not modeled for the aircraft that is specific to year, lot, block, and country of origin? They are pretty clear on all this. So an argument for the capability of a Australian FA-18C does not matter if the product is a US NAVY FA-18C lot 20 aircraft.

 

Nothing to do with aircraft, all to do with the surrounding "world".

To name a few:

 

- missile guidance and performance forces players into air-quake battles

- blast damage is modeled but extremely weak,e.g. killing a mortar squad can take multiple bombs

- ground units like BMPs or even AK-47s have unbelievable pinpoint precision and can be more dangerous than SAM sites

- aircraft A.I. acts weird and pulls UFO maneuvers

 

etc.

 

All of this forces mission makers and then players to adapt to the environment.

Su-27s and F-15s IRL are high altitude BVR interceptors, tell me, when have you last seen such an engagement in MP? Never, everybody is just sneaking around the valleys using Fox-2s.

Just yesterday I was on DDCS and people were discussing how AIM-120Cs are ineffective past 8 miles on a flanking target and that Red players need to spam 6-7 missiles to get a kill.

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Nothing to do with aircraft, all to do with the surrounding "world".

To name a few:

 

- missile guidance and performance forces players into air-quake battles

- blast damage is modeled but extremely weak,e.g. killing a mortar squad can take multiple bombs

- ground units like BMPs or even AK-47s have unbelievable pinpoint precision and can be more dangerous than SAM sites

- aircraft A.I. acts weird and pulls UFO maneuvers

 

etc.

 

All of this forces mission makers and then players to adapt to the environment.

Su-27s and F-15s IRL are high altitude BVR interceptors, tell me, when have you last seen such an engagement in MP? Never, everybody is just sneaking around the valleys using Fox-2s.

Just yesterday I was on DDCS and people were discussing how AIM-120Cs are ineffective past 8 miles on a flanking target and that Red players need to spam 6-7 missiles to get a kill.

 

Ok I agree with all that. Not sure what could be some about

The the multi player tactics short of banning seekers or enforcing an artificial hard deck that would boot you like some servers for blue on blue kill. But that’s not realistic either. Adapting to different tactical situations is something that’s real. But lotering around in valleys isn’t really. And the damage models and word stuff should be fixed.

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All of this forces mission makers and then players to adapt to the environment.

Su-27s and F-15s IRL are high altitude BVR interceptors, tell me, when have you last seen such an engagement in MP? Never, everybody is just sneaking around the valleys using Fox-2s.

Just yesterday I was on DDCS and people were discussing how AIM-120Cs are ineffective past 8 miles on a flanking target and that Red players need to spam 6-7 missiles to get a kill.

 

8Nm on a flanking target on the deck isn’t that off. What do you expect ?

 

Hi Vs Low battle: this is a mission designer issue. There isn’t enough ground threat to make you think twice before going low.

Ambush CAP at low altitude and zoom up was the tactic used by Iraqis to get a few kill Vs Iranian Tomcat. And I bet you would rather call the Tomcat a high altitude bird (with reasons).

 

So the gameplay depends on the tactical conditions.

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For me on the caucuses map, I managed to VTO with 2 mk82 bombs and 2 pods of 7rkt (HE) with 100% fuel, totalling about 23,500 (correction 24,111) lbs or so, managed to burn about 200lbs of H2O before getting enough lift to turn it off.

 

So this loadout you can do a little minor dirt flicking/street sweeping, but are completely defenseless against enemy air assets.

 

Instead of cycling through all the weapon loadouts and experimenting needlessly for hours, I just wanted to ask the community what their personal heaviest loadouts they managed to VTOed in to sort of get the jist of the useful combos you can go vertical in.

 

For example, did anyone manage to get off the ground with both AA missiles as well as A/G munitions?

 

I don’t get the thumb down ? What do you expect ?

 

IRL Harrier is rather STOVL (Short Take Off Vertical Landing) than VTOL (Vertical Take Off & Landing).

 

Your weapon/ fuel load is limited by engine thrust. It would be a joke if it coud take off vertically with full fuel and weapon load.

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I don’t get the thumb down ? What do you expect ?

 

IRL Harrier is rather STOVL (Short Take Off Vertical Landing) than VTOL (Vertical Take Off & Landing).

 

Your weapon/ fuel load is limited by engine thrust. It would be a joke if it coud take off vertically with full fuel and weapon load.

 

Thumbs down? What thumbs down? I know it has limitations, I'm just wondering what you can do with them.

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Thumbs down? What thumbs down? I know it has limitations, I'm just wondering what you can do with them.

 

In the title, but maybe it isn’t you then ?

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You can't get away from physics.

 

 

If you want to VTO with full tanks, all you've got is a gun or a couple of Mk 82.

 

 

Far better to go 50% and a useful weapon load (like this), then fly at an economical rate, where you can get a pretty good distance.

 

 

50% VTO or 70% and a bit of a run along the grass.

 

 

..


Edited by Holbeach

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You can't get away from physics.

 

 

If you want to VTO with full tanks, all you've got is a gun or a couple of Mk 82.

 

 

Far better to go 50% and a useful weapon load (like this), then fly at an economical rate, where you can get a pretty good distance.

 

 

50% VTO or 70% and a bit of a run along the grass.

 

 

..

 

I am a little surprised that 2 sidewinders weigh more than 2 Mk 82s.

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know you probably dont want to hear but work on your a-a refueling. Once you get the hang of it, harrier is actually pretty easy. A lot of times I take off 50% fuel or so to carry ord and then refuel after takeoff. GAW is great for that on the LHA slots. Really fun going up with 2 empty tanks, pod,2sw, 4x1000lbs gbus and doing a deep strike ;)

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I am a little surprised that 2 sidewinders weigh more than 2 Mk 82s.

 

 

2 Sidewinders weigh 384 lb.

 

 

The way to do this, is to put a load that you desire on, then reduce the fuel to a practical VTO weight, say 23,800 lb.

 

 

..

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..

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know you probably dont want to hear but work on your a-a refueling. Once you get the hang of it, harrier is actually pretty easy. A lot of times I take off 50% fuel or so to carry ord and then refuel after takeoff. GAW is great for that on the LHA slots. Really fun going up with 2 empty tanks, pod,2sw, 4x1000lbs gbus and doing a deep strike ;)

 

 

 

The bolded part is fact. Once I got my first connect, it became easy. The big part was figuring out my visual references.

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I have challenged myself with the heaviest load out and take off from the 600 mark on the Tarawa.

 

No Pods, 12 Mk-82 Snakeyes, AIM-9's, full fuel. NRAS is about 50' off the deck.

 

But I tend to agree with the "Practice A2A refuel".

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  • 3 weeks later...
8Nm on a flanking target on the deck isn’t that off. What do you expect ?

 

Hi Vs Low battle: this is a mission designer issue. There isn’t enough ground threat to make you think twice before going low.

Ambush CAP at low altitude and zoom up was the tactic used by Iraqis to get a few kill Vs Iranian Tomcat. And I bet you would rather call the Tomcat a high altitude bird (with reasons).

 

So the gameplay depends on the tactical conditions.

 

Been listening to the Air Crew Interviews podcast, and one of the things that keeps coming up is, in Red Flag exercises, F-15C cruising around at 20,000 ft were mostly unable to stop low altitude penetrators, like the Bucaneer or Tornado. I'd expect in a peer conflict, while you'd have some flying top cpver, you'd pretty quickly have flight dedicated to banging around in the weeds too, to make sure the ornery stirs couldn't get through.

 

Recall, the last near peer type war was Vietnam. F-4s were built as high altitude interceptors, but they ended up banging around in the weeds far more than they liked to too.

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