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Having a few days to Chillax... Many thoughts run in and egress the brain.

Flight operations are never that far from the frontal lobe though.

Flying, landing, pushing buttons, reading maps, seeing and doing things that most people don’t , etc are all the basics that make flying fun.

Having such a rich environment translated to the PC is the cornerstone of any good game. Details are key. Especially the small ones that are taken for granted in the real world (not so much when Flying) but when added to a Sim, it can make that sim just that much better.

It’s very well known that many Sim heads want Sweet Flight Models, Kickass weapon systems, RADAR systems so real that the IAEA’s Mohamed ElBaradei may show up at your door wondering “what the heck are you doing Nuke Boy!!?”

Most sim developers want the same things regarding the hardcore staples of a combat flight sim. They build the best they can with the resources and knowledge they have. Falcon and Lock ON are long standing testimony to that fact.

But as the thread title states... What small stuff is missing if anything?

Now before anyone prints out a long list of ills and personal grips about Lock ON... This is NOT what this tread is about.

This tread is about the small things that can make a game just that much better.

Total Immersion is the Holy Grail for many of you. You want to feel like you are there. So what should be considered for new games to get you to that point?

So THINK past Lock ON. THINK past Falcon... THINK past Vindows Flight Sim... THINK Future... but within the limits of a PC based game.

This is not an attempt to tell you how to respond… just a guideline to help keep the thread on track…

Looking forward to the replies.


My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.

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To Start It Off:



Airbase Lights (Non War / THREATCON Lighting)


Taxi Signs


Ambient Noises (Wind, Earth sounds)


Traffic and Traffic Patterns


Regional Weather Systems

My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.

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I dunno if it would be possible to think completely past titles like LOMAC, Falcon4, Il2 etc since surely we need to build the future on the lessons of the past?


For example the campaign in Falcon is one of the most immersive I've ever come across. Surely if a large proportion of the flight dim customer base think likewise (not that I'm assuming they do: I'm simply suggestiong a scenario), then an enhanced version of that campaign engine (or a variation on it) would be a good place to start.


Personally I'd have to say that future flight sims need to leave the crutch of the online community behind and revisit the offline campaign. A lot of recent titles (such as LOMAC and Il2) are fantastic online. Sure, netcode can always do with more optimisation but in general the overall experience is more than good (cheat prevention and a total erradication of warping would be a fantastic addition, but these are things that are beyond the sole control of a development team).


Where recent titles (not just flight sims but PC games in general) fall down is the offline experience. They will often feel sterile and empty compared to older titles.


So to cut the waffle I'd like to see a pause in the concentration on the graphical engine and more intensive work being put into the AI and offline components that although not immediately obvious on the screen in front of the player are a huge part of improving the immersion factor (ie: the little things that make you the player feel part of the game).

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I'll go for a world with things actually happening in it.


Birds, more traffic, better roads, MUCH more in the way of AI aircraft and comms, FACs . . . .


I suppose asking for little AI humans going about their everyday business is a bit OTT, but hey, it might happen some time :P



The problem with all this stuff is that the time you take to implement starts to increase exponentially, for not all that much reward.


For instance, my pet "live world" game at the moment is Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl.

1000 AI creatures, humans, bad guys, good guys, animals . . . all of which have to eat, scavenge and so forth. And the detail in some areas is absolutely mind-boggling . . . .

But it took best part of a decade, and still isn't finished. Maybe 20% of the original game area couldn't make it to release. And the AI's still bugged.


Try doing that to a flight sim . . . . . where the "world" is generally considered secondary to the simulation of the aircraft. Certainly the aircraft could be finished before the world was, which gives you an interesting problem regarding release dates . . .

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Wind noise, definitely the noise of the wind blasting past your canopy. That's something that I really notice in real world flying in little bugmashers. It really helps in basic instrument flying, because you can hear the difference in a couple knots of wind, so if you omitted the airspeed indicator in your scan or you're fiddling with the GPS or something, hearing the wind change can make you notice that, "Oh crap, somehow I've gotten myself into a thirty degree, nose-low bank and I'm screaming at the ground at 2000 FPM", instead of happily plugging in waypoints as you lawndart yourself into cornfields below.

Stupid thermals...

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For instance, my pet "live world" game at the moment is Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl.

. . .


Aye - Same Here


Playing it through now for a second time and the dynamic is such that it's wholly different this time around.......


And the Immersion is Outstanding: At the time of taking this Pic I just got off being jumped by a Blood-Sucker. Couple that with Night fast approaching and you'll know why this Thunderstorm made me Spill my Coffee the first time the Lightning struck.........No game thus far has given me that "Hollow" Feeling in the Pit of my Stomach whilst going about my business attempting to survive in the ZONE, all the while looking over my Shoulder.......


Should a Flight Sim strive to inject that Feeling of Humanity one gets from S.T.A.L.K.E.R., albeit obviously from a different perspective, then I'll be a very happy man indeed!





Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career?

Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder!


'....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell....

One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'

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Hmmm memo to self.... look for this STALKER game... Years back there was a write up about it... Never knew it hit the shelf... Can you still buy this title?


"Small AI Stuff"


It would be nice to have AI that had some scripted flight and taxi profiles.

For example:


On taxi... Taxi sep and stagger... Not that the game deals with temps... but simulating the methods used during taxi and holding would be cool to see. It give the AI the appearence of thinking.


AI Approach scripts. 2/4 ship over field break 1 mile final to landing... or even traning scripts that the AI could run at random or with ownship interaction... Like SFO or missed approaches. Something to simulate combat Flight Operations and Training.


Bombing and MOA's

My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.

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I'd like to be able to walk to the plane, get in, someone remove the ladder and they direct me to the take off position (carrier).


I guess I'd just like a few interactive bods on the ground :thumbup:


Oh and obviously a 3Dcockpit :doh:

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Things I always wanted to see :


ZSU-23 sim included or other SAM/AAA system. Would be interesting online.


More Civil Air traffic / road traffic .


More Infantry (Included in a few sims like Hind)



Big things missing from Combat Flight Sims these days , competition . Sims are so few and far between compared to years ago. Competition drives ingenuity .

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BAh! you all are missing the best. The girl coming to kiss you (or something more substancial) after each successful mission. :D


(if not, the execucioner) :)


My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

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Easy Bros.... Try to stay focus here....

Base Re-supply even if there is no Dynamic Campaign Engine.

As part of the random Traffic Model it would be nice to have Cargo transported into the Airbases in the area.

User can put in a request for spares for that MiG he just Code 3’d while slamming all around and then into the ground for a nice gear trashing landing!

While he waits for spares (over time / Real Time) That MiG is broke and is Code 3

Speaking of Codes… It would be nice to Code the Jets

Code 1

Code 2

Code 3

Even Have Random Hanger queens in the Database.

So Lets say you are "Free Flying" (no such thing... Fuel Cost /Maintenance Cost)

The Database will keep track of that flight time for all the Jets used be it by you or the AI. Each jet will be Coded by the AI ground crew and this data will be tracked as along as the Human Player’s Log Book Shows you with a status of living. Basically free flight is a training campaign.

Jets will be taken on and Off of flight status based on their status…

Also random factoring to keep you honest. Let’s say your Home base is near a populated area on the game map. Low level unrestricted flying may cause you some problems in the form of reports added to your debrief window. The only purpose this will serve is to remind the player that the world below is living... But for some of the hardcore realism folks this will allow them to fly realistically. And fly hard only in designated areas.

More later

My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.

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The girl coming to kiss you (or something more substancial) after each successful mission

This was not mentioned because i guess some of us have it already.. ;)


Good idea LOL...

Yeah and some of us have it plural wise too.:cheer3nc::cheer3nc::D:cheer3nc::cheer3nc:


A training program would be high on my list tis why im looking fwd to fighterops.

"[51☭] FROSTIE" #55


Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10


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My request




2. AAA




4. A FORM of "PUNK BUSTER" So you cant be seen when your up at 45k and the bad guys back is too you while hes ready to take off.


5. Yes Girls!!!!!!! And the Option to get out of your air-craft and go to the Bar in the lounge and chat with your buds; first person.


6. Cats, dogs, birds, chickens, cows, and Vulchers!


7. Barrage Balloons!



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Minor details like a working hook for the F-16 and F-15 never been done always been my one dislike that no one has bothered to put such a feature in either F-15 or F-16 sims. As for other features FSX has some quite good features such as missions with rewards a decent logbook that can be read by other players in the lobby is cool(Falcon 4 feature). Missions need to be in more detail too the whole mission concept wasn't very good in FC since it would have been better to be able to access more weapons as you progressed in the campaign. In FC alot of missions featured incorect loadouts and should have had better use of the aircrafts capabilities. The idea of having other characters in the game is cool too and the use of actors or actors voices also adds more to the immersion factor. Topgun featured this and it was alot of fun.:thumbup: Also F4 style mission planning with a knee board with your flight info plus an ingame voice coms like Open Falcon or FSX would be cool too.



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