Virpil V3 Throttle - bad design to remove the throttle locking detect switch

[HC_Official]

My bad I misread and apologize have yo reached out to VPC to see what they say?

 

Is there any way to fix this?

 

There are a couple of potential solutions

 

1. If you have a V1 or V2 throttle configure it to use the button 1 as double throttle axis lock (V3 users cannot do this)

 

2. Spend a long time tweaking curves to try and make both axis exactly equal (lots of fun trying this) very hard and you probably will never get 100% right

 

3. Sacrifice a toggle switch to use as the hardware switch input to tell the throttle double axis lock is active

 

4. Wait until V4 of the throttle is released with the switch

 

 

And yes , been in contact with Virpil.

 

I do not hold out hope of a software solution to fix the corner that Virpil have painted themselves into by removing a good hardware feature

Edited June 26, 2019 by HC_Official

[Arbil]

I have to say not a great design choice to remove the throttle locking detect switch from the V3 version of your throttles

This is a handy feature to make the throttle halves operate in different ways depending on if they were locked or not

 

1. Locked, (switch detects locked = true) then Axis 1 is copied to axis 2, deadzone is ignored

2. Unlocked, (switch detects unlocked = false) then both axis operate independentely and deadzone is used to control "snapping"

 

Right now there are some issues with the current way Virpil have decided to do things

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I've been using the throttle split sometimes in like IL2 for throttle and rpm and didn't even realize this was happening. Went in and set the physical button up and all is good.

[Ranma13]

Which way do you have the Throttle double Axis lock configured ?

 

I think this is a new feature in the newer firmware releases. I'm using an older firmware from January 2019, though I can't find a place to download it from now.

 

The source of the problem is the magnet in one throttle arm interfering with the hall sensor in the other throttle arm when it passes over it. The most the software can do is filter it out, but there's no way to fix it at the hardware level without disassembling and relocating the magnets and sensors.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Ranma13

[HC_Official]

I think this is a new feature in the newer firmware releases. I'm using an older firmware from January 2019, though I can't find a place to download it from now.

 

The source of the problem is the magnet in one throttle arm interfering with the hall sensor in the other throttle arm when it passes over it. The most the software can do is filter it out, but there's no way to fix it at the hardware level without disassembling and relocating the magnets and sensors.

 

 

I take it you did not watch the video?

Nope the source of the problem is NOT one throttle arm interfering with the others sensor

(if deadzone = 0 there is not snapping of axis values) this issue is because of the

software deadzone feature trying to deal with the 2 arms not returning identical values

when at the same physical position and is pulling them together by changing the % values returned to windows

 

 

I ask again "Which way do you have the Throttle double Axis lock configured ?" best guess you are using the switch method on a V1 throttle so you are probably ok

Edited June 27, 2019 by HC_Official

[Sabre_Ewan]

I think I fundamentally don’t understand the issue. Why is it so difficult to have each throttle on a different axis entirely and thereby do away with any locking switch?

 

As far as I can work out the issue is that on a dual axis throttle, the axes are never perfectly matched, so one will always give a very slightly different value than the other.

If you're using them 'locked' you want them to give the same value, so Virpil use a software trick to match the values if it detects that they're close.

 

On older versions it used a physical switch to only activate this feature when the throttles were locked together. Apparently on the new throttle, this switch no longer exists and it is activated all the time. This means that every time the throttles pass each other there is a little blip while it erroneously thinks it needs to match them.

[tintifaxl]

Do dual throttles always provide indentical output in real life? I'm just curious.

[HC_Official]

As far as I can work out the issue is that on a dual axis throttle, the axes are never perfectly matched, so one will always give a very slightly different value than the other.

If you're using them 'locked' you want them to give the same value, so Virpil use a software trick to match the values if it detects that they're close.

 

On older versions it used a physical switch to only activate this feature when the throttles were locked together. Apparently on the new throttle, this switch no longer exists and it is activated all the time. This means that every time the throttles pass each other there is a little blip while it erroneously thinks it needs to match them.

 

 

Thank you for this, this describes the problem pretty closely in a few sentences, would edit it slightly to

 

 

The issue is that on a dual axis throttle, the axes are never perfectly matched,

so one will always give a very slightly different value than the other.

If you're using them 'locked' you want them to give the same value,

so in the V3 throttles Virpil use a software trick to match the values if it detects that they're close.

 

On older versions (V1 or V2) it used a physical switch to activate a different software feature

when the throttles were locked together to exactly copy Axis 1 to Axis 2 % values.

On the new V3 throttle, this switch no longer exists and it is activated all the time

(via the deadzone feature in the config software).

 

This means that every time the throttles are used seperately and get close to

each other there is a blip while it erroneously thinks it needs to match them,

this blip will happen when they are within +5% or -5% of each other and

cause throttle values to be skewed ..... which is not good

 

Now when you start moving one axis away from the other they will both move for a bit

then suddenly snap apart once they reach the 5% deadzone limit ...

Edited June 27, 2019 by HC_Official

[HC_Official]

 

Axes unlocked, moving only one axis.

 

 

 

 

yeah here is a good capture of it in DCS posted in this thread 3 days ago

[Naruto]

Vipril should do a software update when you can manually disable this sync feature when you want to run the dual throttles separate. I preordered their CM stick and base and was thinking about adding their new throttle but will likely hold off.

[Johnny Dioxin]

It's still an outstanding throttle

[HC_Official]

Vipril should do a software update when you can manually disable this sync feature when you want to run the dual throttles separate. I preordered their CM stick and base and was thinking about adding their new throttle but will likely hold off.

 

You can already do this in the config software, set deadzone = 0

but when you do this an lock them together you might get different values when moving both together.

 

But it would be a pita to do this while actually flying a plane/heli

 

The original solution of detecting lock with a switch handled both locked and unlocked throttle sides perfectly

[HC_Official]

It's still an outstanding throttle

 

 

I do think it is a good throttle , but at 410Euros Inc Vat and delivery I would not have expected Virpil to have removed such a good feature

[Johnny Dioxin]

Yeah, that was aimed more at Naruto, seeing as he says he will hold off due to this - I wouldn't.

 

I'm also sure they know what they are doing - people are always making waves about minor things, and let's face it, this is a minor thing. I haven't seen a single person complaining that it adversely affects them in any sim. I doubt it will be changed, and I can't say I blame them, It's easy to sit in judgement from a cosy armchair, but how much do we actually know about why it was removed and what the options were?

 

Assumptions are ten a penny. I'm happy and I'll continue to be, no doubt. Time to get back to flying.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Brixmis
final comments. Seeya.

[HC_Official]

Yeah, that was aimed more at Naruto, seeing as he says he will hold off due to this - I wouldn't.

 

I'm also sure they know what they are doing - people are always making waves about minor things, and let's face it, this is a minor thing. I haven't seen a single person complaining that it adversely affects them in any sim. I doubt it will be changed, and I can't say I blame them, It's easy to sit in judgement from a cosy armchair, but how much do we actually know about why it was removed and what the options were?

 

Assumptions are ten a penny. I'm happy and I'll continue to be, no doubt. Time to get back to flying.

 

 

I suppose I would be looking at it from the perspective of someone has has worked in the electronics Industry since 1994, options were to try another better suited switch or just remove it, what other peoples judgements are I do not know about

[iKyrThraad993i]

What did Virpil say?

 

So your tell me don't even bother getting this throttle

[HC_Official]

What did Virpil say?

 

So your tell me don't even bother getting this throttle

 

 

nothing back from them today

 

I will stick with my current throttle for now and will not be buying a V3

, wait and see what a V4 is like

[iKyrThraad993i]

I suppose I would be looking at it from the perspective of someone has has worked in the electronics Industry since 1994, options were to try another better suited switch or just remove it, what other peoples judgements are I do not know about

 

 

We don't know why the removed it there could have been others complaints about it and all. Did you post on there forums. I only see 1 topic out of tons about this so it can't be serious as other issues

[iKyrThraad993i]

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/620-mt-50-jitter-crossover-between-axis-1-and-2-in-newer-and-newest-test-firmwaressolved/

 

Here you go this talks about the issue

 

the Mt50 first post the guy rolled back to older version and it stopped a simple software update can fix this.

Edited June 27, 2019 by iKyrThraad993i

[HC_Official]

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/620-mt-50-jitter-crossover-between-axis-1-and-2-in-newer-and-newest-test-firmwaressolved/

 

Here you go this talks about the issue

 

the Mt50 first post the guy rolled back to older version and it stopped a simple software update can fix this.

 

:no_sad:

 

Oh dear, only a V1 or V2 can be "fixed" by reverting to old firmware .... you want to know why?

 

Because the older firmwares default throttle profile used the physical button to detect the throttles being locked,

the newer firmware default throttle profile to be compatible with V3 do not use the switch to detect the axis being locked together

 

How will this work for a V3 ...... when it does NOT have this physical button ?

Answer ............... it cannot work

Edited June 28, 2019 by HC_Official

[HC_Official]

We don't know why the removed it there could have been others complaints about it and all. Did you post on there forums. I only see 1 topic out of tons about this so it can't be serious as other issues

 

 

You could find out for yourself and spend 410Euro all in to buy a V3 throttle

then post on here and let us know how you get on with it

[iKyrThraad993i]

Edited

[mdee]

As far as I can tell after initial testing the problem has been solved in latest firmware. Will do more testing later.

[Swine]

What is a V3 throttle - is that what a CM throttle is? I’m confused

[chief]

What is a V3 throttle - is that what a CM throttle is? I’m confused

 

The difference between the v1 and v2 were some of the 4 way hats were turned into 4 way plus push. So really not much of a difference but still a difference nonetheless. The V3 is the one that's out now. Easily identifiable but it not having the red push button with the yellow protector.

[HC_Official]

As far as I can tell after initial testing the problem has been solved in latest firmware. Will do more testing later.

 

 

I tested it as well, by default it uses 2% DZ

when the throttles were locked together and moved each had a different value

So the "snapping" is gone, but trying to use the throttles locked is now not working

Some throttles will not be within 2% of each other and have this problem .... maybe next version everything will work

Edited July 3, 2019 by HC_Official