SU-25T Aiming TV

[SAM-Smasher]

Hi guys I just wanted to ask a quick question about the new SU-25T, I have noticed the aiming TV for the vikhr seems to have a higher zoom level than that on the A-10 in 1.02, which is great if true, because targets will be so much easier to identify at longer ranges to the point of saying "Thats a tank" "Thats AD" etc. Is this true or am I seeing things?

 

Thanks in advance guys. :D

[britgliderpilot]

Re: SU-25T Aiming TV

 

Hi guys I just wanted to ask a quick question about the new SU-25T, I have noticed the aiming TV for the vikhr seems to have a higher zoom level than that on the A-10 in 1.02, which is great if true, because targets will be so much easier to identify at longer ranges to the point of saying "Thats a tank" "Thats AD" etc. Is this true or am I seeing things?

 

Thanks in advance guys. :D

 

Correct.

 

 

The camera here is mounted in the nose of the Su25T - allowing more complexity and fun-ness than a little seeker in the nose of a missile.

 

I would assume that this means the Vikhr isn't fire and forget, though . . . . bit of a downside, but still looks awesome.

[Dark_Sceptre]

Hmm yeah you are probably right there, BGP, the missile probably needs datalink tracking to hit the target and so at the very least we need to keep the target within the gimbal limits of the camera. Still better than manually pointing a laser though hehe

[ThirdELTPoznan]

Thats what I found about Vikhrs:

 

Vikhr (AT-9)

 

The latest aircraft antiarmor missile is the 9A4172 of the Vikhr (AT-9) family for Ka-50 helicopters and Su-25T aircraft. It was built in Tula by A. Shipunov's group (Priborostroyeniye Design Bureau), builder of aircraft guns. The missile is fired from launchers containing a 6-8 pack. Its guidance system combines radio-command guidance during the initial flight stage followed by laser-beam guidance afterwards. The missile is a supersonic one with a 8-10 km range, its caliber is 125 mm, and its weight together with the launcher is 60 kg. The two-stage shaped-charge warhead is capable of piercing armor of equivalent to 900 mm thickness. With the switch set in the appropriate position on the pilot's panel in the cockpit, the Vikhr operates as an air-to-air missile with a radar turn-on for approach navigation. It is effective against airborne targets flying at speeds up to 800 km/h (600 km/h during rendezvous tacks).

 

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/at-9.htm

[DayGlow]

is the camera ground stabalized, or does the pilot have to reajust the aimpoint on a moving target?

________

hemp

Edited January 22, 2011 by DayGlow

[Alfa]

Hi,

 

The Shkval TV camera has 23x magnification.

 

When deploying laser guided missiles like the Vikhr or Kh-29L, the procedure is to find and lock the target with the Shkval TV - then switch on the Prichal laser rangefinder/designator, which then will be automatically "slaved" to the target obtained by the Shkval TV.

 

A laser has a limited operating time, and is switched off automatically after a few minutes of operation to avoid overheating. Before the laser can be switched back on it requires a "cool-down" period approximately twice that of the time it has been switched on.

 

This is modelled in Lock-on 1.1, so it is necessary to keep the laser switched off until the target is within laser range as indicated on the Shkval TV display.

 

Since laser guided missiles require the laser to illuminate the target all the way to weapons impact, failing to time the moment of laser "switch-on" correctly, might result in the laser switching off in the middle of an engagement - causing the missile to loose guidance and subsequently miss its target.

 

When engaging with TV guided weapons, such as Kh-29T and KAB-500kr, there is no need to activate laser - these weapons are "fire & forget" and only requires the target to be locked by the Shkval TV display before launch.

 

However, in order to obtain a lock via TV, it is necessary to set "target base" - which basically means defining target size.....this is also shown on the Shkval TV display :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ

[ThirdELTPoznan]

The Shkval targeting system is fitted in a lengthened nose with a larger nose panel, replacing the Klen-PS system. The Shkval system includes a high-resolution TV camera, with a wide-angle (27 by 36 degree) mode for search and a 23-magnification narrow-angle (0.7 by 1.0 degree) mode for targeting; a laser spot tracker; and a "Prichal (Haven)" laser target designator boresighted to the camera. The Shkval optics assembly is steerable through 70 degrees to either side of the aircraft, and from 15 degrees above the centerline to 80 degrees below. The Shkval system incorporates an automatic target tracking system.

 

The Shkval system is essentially the same as that used on the Kamov Ka-50 "Hokum" helicopter gunship, and allows the Su-25T to carry and direct advanced laser-guided weapons, such as the "9M120 Vikhr" anti-tank missile, known as the "AT-12 Swinger" in the West. The Vikhr can also be used against helicopters and subsonic fixed-wing aircraft. The Vikhr is carried in eight-round launcher packs. A hooded TV display and hand controller mounted in the cockpit allows the pilot to guide the weapons.

[IKG200 Swierczek]

Shkval's features are:

- 2 TV channels

- line of sight stabilizing and guidance gyro system

- laser range finder and target illuminator

- laser beam riding guidance system

- computer processing data

- integrated automatic test equipment

- capability of being integrated with radar, thermal imaging system and integrated nav system

 

To allow use of the station at night, it can be fitted with Mercury LLTV system

 

 

cool stuff heh? :wink:

[Alfa]

Dayglow,

 

Yes the Shkval TV is ground stabalized.

 

Once locked on to a particular spot on the ground, the camera is stabalized with the ground and you can move the target designator around without having it "dancing" around with the movement of the aircraft.

 

Also the Shkval TV system has an auto lock-on function - e.g. when moving the target designator close to a moving target, the system will automatically lock on to it and stay on it.....no further adjustment required :) .

[BIOLOG]

I might also add, that laser safety can be switched off... But it will damage laser with time... So better to keep it on.

[Chizh]

Thats what I found about Vikhrs:

 

Vikhr (AT-9)

 

...

Its guidance system combines radio-command guidance during the initial flight stage followed by laser-beam guidance afterwards.

...

It's a mistake. Vikhr missile have a laser-beam guidance only.

[ThirdELTPoznan]

It's a mistake. Vikhr missile have a laser-beam guidance only.

 

Maybe, I just copied text from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/at-9.htm

[DayGlow]

global security is not the most accurate site.

________

vaporizer affiliate program

Edited January 22, 2011 by DayGlow

[ThirdELTPoznan]

As we can see from that what Chizh said. Maybe the AT-9 has radio command but the AT-12 doesnt. There are many Vikhir sub-types from what I have read on various pages.

[ThirdELTPoznan]

I made some research, and here is what I have found:

 

The 9M120 Vikhr (AT-X-16) (the X designated that it is not yet in production) is a aircraft-mounted semi-active laser guided antitank guided missile. It has been demonstrated on the Ka-50 HOKUM attack helicopter and can also be launched from fixed-wing aircraft such as the SU-25 FROGFOOT. The AT-X-16 resembles a lengthened 9M114 (AT-6 or AT-9) but employs semi-active laser guidance. The missile is about 1.5 meters long, and the launch canister appears to be fitted with a small optical port to allow the laser seeker to lock-on before launch. the missile has a maximum range of about 8 km and weighs about 60 kg.

 

And here is some thing about the AT-9:

 

The AT-9 Ataka is an improved version of the AT-6 Shturm-V system, designed for use on the Mi-28 HAVOC attack helicopter and Kamov naval helicopters. This system essentially is an AT-6 Shturm-V, with an improved guidance system and the 9M114M1 and 9M114M2 missiles described in the AT-6 section. The Ataka system on the Mi-28 HAVOC carries double the number of missiles as the earlier Shturm-V system.

 

The 9K114 Shturm (AT-6 SPIRAL) is a tube-launched, SACLOS, radio-command guided ATGM mounted on both heliborne and ground platforms. The industrial designation is 9K114, Shturm (Storm). It was primarily designed as a helicopter-based anti-armor missile, and is called the Shturm-V in the helicopter version, and Shturm-S in the ground-launched version. In the helicopter-mounted role it is found on Mi-24 E/F and the Kamov Ka-29 HORMONE naval helicopter. The AT-6 is also found on the 9P149 tank destroyer, which is based on the MT-LB tracked multi-purpose vehicle. As with many contemporary Russian tactical missiles, the 9M114 missile is transported and launched from a glass-reinforced plastic tube. There are at least four versions of the 9M114 missile. The basic 9M114 has a conventional shaped-charge anti-armor warhead capable of defeating 600-mm of armor. A special bunker-buster missile is in service which uses an enhanced blast warhead similar to a fuel-air explosive. These two variants have a 400 meter minimum range and a 5000 meter maximum range. Two advanced anti-armor warheads are also available, which have been developed to defeat explosive reactive armor. These two missiles differ in the length of the missile and the maximum range: 6 km for the 9M114M1 and 7 km for the 9M114M2.

 

So there were some differences in Vikhr missiles

 

Ataka-V VIKhR 9M120 (AT-16)

A modification of the Shturm-V family is the Ataka-V family of missiles used on Mi-28 helicopters and on the latest Ka-50 helicopter. The Vikhr antitank missile is also the main weapon of the Su-39. The aircraft is armed with 16 such missiles The Ataka-V family includes several versions, the basic one being the 9M120 with a shaped-charge warhead against armored targets and its improved version being the 9M220. Addition of a second warhead, a demolition warhead, has created the Fugasnaya [High-Explosive] 9M120F. Another version used against airborne targets is the 9A2200 with a rod warhead. All these missiles of the Ataka-V family have semiautomatic radio command guidance and a 6000 m range, the producer quoting a 0.95 probability of a hit. Missiles of the Malutka-Falanga-Shturm-Ataka families were built by the "Mashinostroyenie" Design Bureau in Izhevsk, which had been established by Boris Shavyrin and is now directed by Sergey Niepobiedimyy.

[SAM-Smasher]

Re: SU-25T Aiming TV

 

Correct.

 

 

The camera here is mounted in the nose of the Su25T - allowing more complexity and fun-ness than a little seeker in the nose of a missile.

 

I would assume that this means the Vikhr isn't fire and forget, though . . . . bit of a downside, but still looks awesome.

 

Thats good to hear, I have found often with the A10 that to get close enough to identify the air-defences around the target, the shilkas already spraying and a missle is ripping its way towards you. I have remedied this by approaching real low and with the cover of terrain, screaming over the target area making the AA light up, then I can pinpoint the locations on the air defences.

 

But the extra zoom with SHKVYL system will provide that standoff ability, to pick off the air-defences, which would then allow me to close in for a more devestating attack on the main target.

 

Another weapon to aid my hatred of SAM Sites!!!

[enigma6584]

Hi,

 

The Shkval TV camera has 23x magnification.

 

When deploying laser guided missiles like the Vikhr or Kh-29L, the procedure is to find and lock the target with the Shkval TV - then switch on the Prichal laser rangefinder/designator, which then will be automatically "slaved" to the target obtained by the Shkval TV.

 

A laser has a limited operating time, and is switched off automatically after a few minutes of operation to avoid overheating. Before the laser can be switched back on it requires a "cool-down" period approximately twice that of the time it has been switched on.

 

This is modelled in Lock-on 1.1, so it is necessary to keep the laser switched off until the target is within laser range as indicated on the Shkval TV display.

 

Since laser guided missiles require the laser to illuminate the target all the way to weapons impact, failing to time the moment of laser "switch-on" correctly, might result in the laser switching off in the middle of an engagement - causing the missile to loose guidance and subsequently miss its target.

 

When engaging with TV guided weapons, such as Kh-29T and KAB-500kr, there is no need to activate laser - these weapons are "fire & forget" and only requires the target to be locked by the Shkval TV display before launch.

 

However, in order to obtain a lock via TV, it is necessary to set "target base" - which basically means defining target size.....this is also shown on the Shkval TV display :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ

 

You have just got to admire the detail these people provide us in the sim. :supz:

[britgliderpilot]

Re: SU-25T Aiming TV

 

Thats good to hear, I have found often with the A10 that to get close enough to identify the air-defences around the target, the shilkas already spraying and a missle is ripping its way towards you. I have remedied this by approaching real low and with the cover of terrain, screaming over the target area making the AA light up, then I can pinpoint the locations on the air defences.

 

. . . . I didn't think you could do much in the way of screaming in an A10 :P

 

You want to fly the Su25, mate . . . . all that speed . . . .

 

 

That's a good point - wonder what that weight and drag does to the speed and handling of the Su25T?

[Avimimus]

Thats what I found about Vikhrs:

 

Vikhr (AT-9)

 

The latest aircraft antiarmor missile is the 9A4172 of the Vikhr (AT-9) family for Ka-50 helicopters and Su-25T aircraft. It was built in Tula by A. Shipunov's group (Priborostroyeniye Design Bureau), builder of aircraft guns. The missile is fired from launchers containing a 6-8 pack. Its guidance system combines radio-command guidance during the initial flight stage followed by laser-beam guidance afterwards. The missile is a supersonic one with a 8-10 km range, its caliber is 125 mm, and its weight together with the launcher is 60 kg. The two-stage shaped-charge warhead is capable of piercing armor of equivalent to 900 mm thickness. With the switch set in the appropriate position on the pilot's panel in the cockpit, the Vikhr operates as an air-to-air missile with a radar turn-on for approach navigation. It is effective against airborne targets flying at speeds up to 800 km/h (600 km/h during rendezvous tacks).

 

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/at-9.htm

 

I am sorry but this is all incorrect!

 

The 9A1472 (on the Kamov helicpoters and Sukhoi planes) is a completely unrelated laser-beam-rider.

 

The missile these sites refer to is the 9M114 and 9M120 used on the Mi-24 developments and the Mi-28. It is radio command guided SACLOS.

[ZoomBoy27]

looks like an interesting system to get into

[ALDEGA]

Note:

 

The Shkval (daytime) TV targetting system allows up to 23x zoom.

However, in low light conditions, you will need to equip the Su-25T with the Mercury LLTV pod, which offers a more limited 5x zoom factor.