LANTIRN Control for Pilot

[QuiGon]

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

For me DCS is a simulation that should try everything possible to get as close to the real deal as a video game can. Full Stop.

 

I don't care how other people play this game on their own, but when I'm playing MP I do care, because it affects me as well. Full Stop.

 

I agree, you can't always get a second crewmember. Personally I just don't fly the Cat in that case, as it is meant to be flown with a crew of two.

 

Jester is Heatblurs take on making it possible to fly the Cat with a crew of 2 without having to rely on another player being available. This way you don't have to use magical telepathic controls that have no place in a military simulator that focuses on realism.

 

As TacoGrease has pointed out very well, Jester won't disappear, so debating about alternatives (whether it is the LANTIRN mod or relying on human RIOs only) is pointless anyways, so it's either Jester or multicrew. Full Stop.

[key_stroked]

For me DCS is a simulation that should try everything possible to get as close to the real deal as a video game can. Full Stop.

 

The first thing you wrote was for me, and yet you wish Heatblur would change the entire product so that it only suits your needs and doesn't accommodate anyone else's playstyle or preferences.

That's selfish. If you don't like Jester because he's "not realistic"....then don't use him. That doesn't mean other people can't enjoy playing the module with Jester, or without him. Asking for the entire Jester functionality to be removed just because you don't care for it is pretty arrogant.

 

I don't care how other people play this game on their own, but when I'm playing MP I do care, because it affects me as well. Full Stop.

 

How exactly is me moving a LANTIRN pod with a hatswitch "affecting you" in multiplayer while you're in a completely different jet?

How does increasing the workload for a solo F-14 player somehow make it harder for you to enjoy your sim?

 

I agree, you can't always get a second crewmember. Personally I just don't fly the Cat in that case, as it is meant to be flown with a crew of two.

 

Jester is Heatblurs take on making it possible to fly the Cat with a crew of 2 without having to rely on another player being available. This way you don't have to use magical telepathic controls that have no place in a military simulator that focuses on realism.

 

Yes, workarounds do have a place in a sim, because it is a sim, and not a real jet. You very conveniently dismiss the compromises that have to be made to bridge the gap between what's real and what computer software can actually do, which is the difference between functionality and your precious realism.

 

The fact is me using the LANTIRN with or without Jester is exactly the same thing. I'm using an interface that Heatblur wrote into the module to manipulate the representation of something else.

Whether I tell Jester to do it (pressing a button) or I do it (pressing a button), it is the same thing.

 

And whether or not I do it or a computer AI does it, it's still getting done, and that does not affect you in terms of MP balance in any way, shape, or form while you're flying some other jet. If anything, it affects ME more, because I have an increased workload.

[draconus]

Ok, options are good. Let's have this in a "game mode " since you don't care about realism and prefer the pilot to have superpowers instead.

[Ship]

Ok I really did not want to chime in on this topic because well lets face it these forums used to be a good place to learn things but not so much anymore I really did not want to get in to a pissing match with a bunch of people who think their god's gift to flight sims but looks like I am going to.

 

I use the lantern mod and I use it for the following reasons.

1. It allows me to complete missions the F-14 Tomcat had the ability to complete and did complete in real life and it allows me to complete these objectives effectively.

2. I don't have a human RIO and my beck and call 24/7/365

3. The "lantern mod" is a very effective way to accomplish the mission objective when playing as single player with out going outside the abilities of the aircraft.

 

ROBGRAHAM and HALCYON are 100% right this IS a COMPUTER GAME. Note to the people crying rivers over realism... Last time I checked we are all sitting in front of computers.... If this was real I would have a F-14 Tomcat sitting in my driveway next to my shiny dark blue 2015 Camaro RS... However when I went to my car this morning there was no F-14 to be seen and I am pretty damn sure that no one else hecre has a Tomcat in their driveway either.

 

QuiGon get off your high and mighty self made pedestal. The lantern mod does NOTHING to the Tomcat that effects you. It does not do the following.........

It does NOT make the Tomcat invincible

It does NOT give the Tomcat unlimited missiles

It does NOT make the Tomcat go mach 20 or pull 20g

It does NOT give the Tomcat unlimited fuel

It does Not give the Aim-54 a 50000000 mile range

And last but not least it does not put a Tomcat in my driveway, or turn me in to a real navy fighter pilot, or make beautiful women rush to be with me.

It does not and god only knows what in gods name makes you think that it does.

All it does is add a few controls that already exist in the plane so take a breath get a glass of cool aide and take a chill pill

Its not your place to say what I can and can not do. And if you are going to try think your argument through before you say something silly and seeing what you have posted here there is a ton of silly being posted ........

 

Now that I have the stupid out of the way. I have been waiting for DCS to get a Tomcat since the days of LOMAC. I was born in 1986 so I grew up with Top Gun. I have read all the books and watched all the videos. I love the Tomcat and you know what I don't want to fly anything else that answer of your is unacceptable.

 

As far as I am concerned Jester as it is now can not run the lantern. How you do plan on telling jester to lase the green building on the northeast corner of the town? Or the third tank to the south 20m from the road? Or to lase the APC driving north approaching the town?

 

Finally I paid money for this module and I am damn glad I did. However I do not recall seeing stated anywhere that you HAD to have a human RIO to be able to use the full functionality of the aircraft nor did I see it anywhere it stated that if you did not have a human RIO that you would be limited. My expectation when I purchased the module was and still is that regardless of single player or with human rio that I would have full functionality to complete any mission given to me with the ordinance available to me. That includes the use of Laser Guided Bombs and the Lantern pod. For the record as a paying customer anything that limits my ability to use the full range of systems in the Tomcat regardless of if I am acting as a single player or with a human rio is "unacceptable" being told do go fly a different plane is "unacceptable".

 

Realism groupies ....... get some perspective and remember what you are doing you are NOT in a real plane you ARE sitting in front of a computer.

 

And with that I am done I very much hope that nothing happens to this as the "lantern mod" fits the need like a glove. It does exactly what is needed and as far as I am concerned I will be extremely disappointed if I loose that ability to preform CAS and Strike missions for the sake of narrow minded people. This is a computer game and there is more than enough room and ways for everyone to fully enjoy the F-14 with out resorting to name calling, being triggered over "realism", and other forms of stupidity.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Ship

[draconus]

LANTIRN is operated by RIO. Just take it's role and you have full control. In SP you can change roles during the mission anytime you want. Writing walls of text doesn't change these simple facts. No one's taking away from you anything that was promised to be implemented.

As much as I loved the Eagle's pilot radar controls I'm not going to demand it for the Tomcat's pilot nor will I use any mod trying to simulate such a silly thing, then requesting it to go official.

[TacoGrease]

There have been a lot of good points made here in favor of keeping the LANTIRN pilot “mod,” including suggestions for regulating its use in a multiplayer environment. Personally, I think the evidence in favor of keeping it - if not making it outright official - is absolutely overwhelming, especially if it frees up Heatblur resources to focus on other aspects of F-14 development.

 

However, I’ll be the first to admit that my opinion is mine alone - others will have to decide for themselves based on the presented discussion points.

 

At this point, my one request to Heatblur - and it is just a request - is that the current LANTIRN Pilot solution is not purposefully eliminated until a suitable alternative has been developed. Losing single player LANTIRN functionality before having an alternate method in place would be, frankly, pretty disheartening. It sounds like quite a few other F-14 owners would agree.

[key_stroked]

There have been a lot of good points made here in favor of keeping the LANTIRN pilot “mod,” including suggestions for regulating its use in a multiplayer environment. Personally, I think the evidence in favor of keeping it - if not making it outright official - is absolutely overwhelming, especially if it frees up Heatblur resources to focus on other aspects of F-14 development.

 

However, I’ll be the first to admit that my opinion is mine alone - others will have to decide for themselves based on the presented discussion points.

 

At this point, my one request to Heatblur - and it is just a request - is that the current LANTIRN Pilot solution is not purposefully eliminated until a suitable alternative has been developed. Losing single player LANTIRN functionality before having an alternate method in place would be, frankly, pretty disheartening. It sounds like quite a few other F-14 owners would agree.

 

I think they said they wouldn't touch .lua control until they included the Jester commands for the LANTIRN.

Even then...I don't see how they're going to restrict usage of a .lua file, and I don't see why they should.

 

I only know a handful of guys that know how to do RIO, and they're not online 24/7. I don't want some random dude in my backseat on an MP server who may or may not communicate with me or know how to perform the RIO role.

 

The notion that just because the jet is a 2 seater means I can only fly it and use all its functionality with either a live human or a restrictive AI interface is what's really silly.

 

Heatblur should accomodate all styles of play, from the hardcore realism types to those that just want to enjoy the F-14 solo.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Halcyon

[TacoGrease]

100%

 

I think they said they wouldn't touch .lua control until they included the Jester commands for the LANTIRN.

Even then...I don't see how they're going to restrict usage of a .lua file, and I don't see why they should.

 

I only know a handful of guys that know how to do RIO, and they're not online 24/7. I don't want some random dude in my backseat on an MP server who may or may not communicate with me or know how to perform the RIO role.

 

The notion that just because the jet is a 2 seater means I can only fly it and use all its functionality with either a live human or a restrictive AI interface is what's really silly.

 

Heatblur should accomodate all styles of play, from the hardcore realism types to those that just want to enjoy the F-14 solo.

[QuiGon]

The first thing you wrote was for me, and yet you wish Heatblur would change the entire product so that it only suits your needs and doesn't accommodate anyone else's playstyle or preferences.

That's selfish. If you don't like Jester because he's "not realistic"....then don't use him. That doesn't mean other people can't enjoy playing the module with Jester, or without him. Asking for the entire Jester functionality to be removed just because you don't care for it is pretty arrogant.

I don't like him, I don't use him, but that's my beer. I'm not telling others to do the same. I'm fine with others using him as he's a simulation of the second crewmember, which is ok within the limits of the sim. Pilots with magical telephatic skills that allow them to directly use functions of the other cockpit are not ok for me. When I fly in a multiplayer environment I don't want to deal with pilots that use such cheats. Again, I don't care what everyone does on his own in SP.

How exactly is me moving a LANTIRN pod with a hatswitch "affecting you" in multiplayer while you're in a completely different jet?

 

How does increasing the workload for a solo F-14 player somehow make it harder for you to enjoy your sim?

What I said here:

Because switching seats is not part of real life. You stay in the seat that you entered on thr ground. So my reason for this is realism for the most part, although what you said is also part of it. It can be difficult to talk the other crewmember onto something that you have noticed and he doesn't and omitting this by just switching seats can be a helpful cheat in certain situations.

 

 

 

Yes, workarounds do have a place in a sim, because it is a sim, and not a real jet. You very conveniently dismiss the compromises that have to be made to bridge the gap between what's real and what computer software can actually do, which is the difference between functionality and your precious realism.

ROBGRAHAM and HALCYON are 100% right this IS a COMPUTER GAME. Note to the people crying rivers over realism... Last time I checked we are all sitting in front of computers.... If this was real I would have a F-14 Tomcat sitting in my driveway next to my shiny dark blue 2015 Camaro RS...

Now that's some pretty weird arguing. You guys are saying because we are not sitting in a real jet the sim should not be realistic either?? What the hell? I would love to sit in a real jet, but I'm not a fighter pilot, so I'm very happy if I can play a sim that brings me as close as possible to the real experience as possible.

The fact is me using the LANTIRN with or without Jester is exactly the same thing. I'm using an interface that Heatblur wrote into the module to manipulate the representation of something else.

Whether I tell Jester to do it (pressing a button) or I do it (pressing a button), it is the same thing.

And whether or not I do it or a computer AI does it, it's still getting done, and that does not affect you in terms of MP balance in any way, shape, or form while you're flying some other jet. If anything, it affects ME more, because I have an increased workload.

As I explained before, it is not at all the same thing:

You and all the people who argue that there is no difference between doing something yourself and telling someone else to do something either have no experience in that regard or just ignore the differences that are there. It starts with the factor time, because if you tell someone to do something means it won't happen instantly unlike you're doing it yourself. Even Jester does simulate that for some functions. Then there is the factor of misscommunication, meaning that when you tell someone something you might mean something different than what the other person understands. And then there is of course the factor of independent behaviour, meaning that the other person can do things on his own without you asking him to do that, which can be positive as well as negative.

2. I don't have a human RIO and my beck and call 24/7/365

Well, neither do I, but I don't have to fly the Tomcat 24/7/365. If you have to do that (in MP) then there's Jester for that very reason.

QuiGon get off your high and mighty self made pedestal. The lantern mod does NOTHING to the Tomcat that effects you. It does not do the following.........

It does NOT make the Tomcat invincible

It does NOT give the Tomcat unlimited missiles

It does NOT make the Tomcat go mach 20 or pull 20g

It does NOT give the Tomcat unlimited fuel

It does Not give the Aim-54 a 50000000 mile range

I have never said it makes the Tomcat invincible.

I have never said it gives the Tomcat unlimited missiles.

I have never said it makes the Tomcat go mach 20 or pull 20g.

I have never said it gives the Tomcat unlimited fuel.

I have never said it gives the AIM-54 a 50000000 mile range.

Instead of making stuff up that I have never said, maybe respond to the stuff I have said?

And last but not least it does not put a Tomcat in my driveway, or turn me in to a real navy fighter pilot, or make beautiful women rush to be with me.

It does not and god only knows what in gods name makes you think that it does.

All it does is add a few controls that already exist in the plane so take a breath get a glass of cool aide and take a chill pill

Its not your place to say what I can and can not do. And if you are going to try think your argument through before you say something silly and seeing what you have posted here there is a ton of silly being posted ........

If you're going up against me in MP in a modded Tomcat that gives you abilities that a fair playing player does not have, then I very much have a word on that. Again, what you do on your own in SP doesn't bother me at all. I'm talking about the MP arena.

Realism groupies ....... get some perspective and remember what you are doing you are NOT in a real plane you ARE sitting in front of a computer.

Again, this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever seen. Just because I'm not sitting in a real jet, I'm not allowed to want a sim that gets as close as possible to get that experience?? What the hell man? I wonder who really thinks he sits on the high pedestal here. If you don't like realism in front of your computer, why not go play War Thunder instead like other arcade groupies do and leave DCS to people that enjoy simulated realism?

Edited June 14, 2019 by QuiGon

[Home Fries]

<...>

When I fly in a multiplayer environment I don't want to deal with pilots that use such cheats.

 

<...>

 

I have never said it makes the Tomcat invincible.

I have never said it gives the Tomcat unlimited missiles.

I have never said it makes the Tomcat go mach 20 or pull 20g.

I have never said it gives the Tomcat unlimited fuel.

I have never said it gives the AIM-54 a 50000000 mile range.

Instead of making stuff up that I have never said, maybe respond to the stuff I have said?

Yet you refer to the LANTIRN mod as a cheat, but the mod does not add any capability to the F-14. I have argued that this mod is a workaround, not a cheat. There is no advantage to having a single pilot control the LANTIRN over a Tomcat crewed by two humans.

 

If you're going up against me in MP in a modded Tomcat that gives you abilities that a fair playing player does not have, then I very much have a word on that. Again, what you do on your own in SP doesn't bother me at all. I'm talking about the MP arena.

I fail to see how a pilot with a LANTIRN would have an unfair advantage in a PvP environment, unless of course you're flying a helo.

Again, this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever seen. Just because I'm not sitting in a real jet, I'm not allowed to want a sim that gets as close as possible to get that experience?? What the hell man? I wonder who really thinks he sits on the high pedestal here. If you don't like realism in front of your computer, why not go play War Thunder instead like other arcade groupies do and leave DCS to people that enjoy simulated realism?

 

You should really tone down the pejorative tone, as it only cheapens your argument. People fly DCS to have fun, and operational flying, while it has its great moments, is often a miserable grind. Trust me when I say you don't want realism. Fidelity, yes, but not realism. A workaround to enjoy oneself should not warrant comparisons to War Thunder or Air Quake.

[Kappi]

Yet you refer to the LANTIRN mod as a cheat, but the mod does not add any capability to the F-14. I have argued that this mod is a workaround, not a cheat. There is no advantage to having a single pilot control the LANTIRN over a Tomcat crewed by two humans.

 

 

I fail to see how a pilot with a LANTIRN would have an unfair advantage in a PvP environment,

 

 

Let's assume your on BlueFlag and have six F-14 jockeys online. Normally this would mean 3 LGB capable F-14s in the air independently. With the mod you would have 6 independently acting F-14s in the air which is compared to the real personal needed an advantage, so...yeah, some kind of cheat.

[QuiGon]

Yet you refer to the LANTIRN mod as a cheat, but the mod does not add any capability to the F-14. I have argued that this mod is a workaround, not a cheat. There is no advantage to having a single pilot control the LANTIRN over a Tomcat crewed by two humans.

There is, as I have explained before:

- Instant reaction, as communication just gets skipped

- No miscommunication

- A single picture of the situation; no talk on for the other crewmember needed

You should really tone down the pejorative tone, as it only cheapens your argument. People fly DCS to have fun, and operational flying, while it has its great moments, is often a miserable grind. Trust me when I say you don't want realism. Fidelity, yes, but not realism.

Trust me, I know what I want and I do want a very high degree of realism, not just fidelity.

[Banzaiib]

There is, as I have explained before:

- Instant reaction, as communication just gets skipped

- No miscommunication

- A single picture of the situation; no talk on for the other crewmember needed

 

Trust me, I know what I want and I do want a very high degree of realism, not just fidelity.

 

And the all seeing eye of DCS AI is better how? Like it or not, the trade off for using jester does not add realism. Having a human have to manipulate the radar, regardless whether it's pilot or RIO is more realistic in any situation than an AI

[key_stroked]

Let's assume your on BlueFlag and have six F-14 jockeys online. Normally this would mean 3 LGB capable F-14s in the air independently. With the mod you would have 6 independently acting F-14s in the air which is compared to the real personal needed an advantage, so...yeah, some kind of cheat.

 

With Jester you also have 6 F-14s that can drop bombs.....literally no difference between Jester or you directly controlling the LANTIRN.

 

I really don't get what the big hangup is on Jester just being an extra bridge to you and the LANTIRN controls.

 

There is, as I have explained before:

- Instant reaction, as communication just gets skipped

- No miscommunication

- A single picture of the situation; no talk on for the other crewmember needed

 

If I tell Jester to tune a TACAN channel....it's instant. A sound file plays that says "roger" or whatever, but it happens instantly.

 

You can't miscommunicate with Jester. It's a user interface. You select something from the wheel and that thing happens.

 

How exactly do you talk on with Jester? You can't. I don't even know how you can assume the level of detail Heatblur will put into Jester's LANTIRN manipulation. How do you tell Jester to target the white house in a town on the NW corner? Or the 3rd BTR-80 from the right?

 

All of your arguments are assuming the player has a real human RIO ready and waiting to hop in their jet.

As you yourself admitted, that's not always possible, so the backup is a not-so-perfect AI called Jester, who CANNOT do things a human can do.

 

The LANTIRN mod provides a workaround for his shortfalls. Jester can't do everything.

 

You should be happy that players want this mod, because by giving more for the pilot to do, it degrades his situational awareness and gives YOU an advantage. But you're going on and on like its a cheat code and the F-14 somehow has an unfair advantage over you in multiplayer.

 

So far I haven't heard a single good reason why it should be disallowed at all.

[TacoGrease]

Let's assume your on BlueFlag and have six F-14 jockeys online. Normally this would mean 3 LGB capable F-14s in the air independently. With the mod you would have 6 independently acting F-14s in the air which is compared to the real personal needed an advantage, so...yeah, some kind of cheat.

 

False. You’re assuming that all the F-14 jockeys are proficient in RIO and/or LANTIRN. Definitely not at all true.

 

The F-14 pilots using the LANTIRN solution will likely (1) have A2G loadouts that make them more vulnerable to A2A and (2) will be less focused on their radar given the need to manipulate LANTIRN. If anything, both factors reduce the threat posed by an individual F-14 to someone flying against it.

 

With Jester you also have 6 F-14s that can drop bombs.....literally no difference between Jester or you directly controlling the LANTIRN.

 

I really don't get what the big hangup is on Jester just being an extra bridge to you and the LANTIRN controls.

 

 

 

If I tell Jester to tune a TACAN channel....it's instant. A sound file plays that says "roger" or whatever, but it happens instantly.

 

You can't miscommunicate with Jester. It's a user interface. You select something from the wheel and that thing happens.

 

How exactly do you talk on with Jester? You can't. I don't even know how you can assume the level of detail Heatblur will put into Jester's LANTIRN manipulation. How do you tell Jester to target the white house in a town on the NW corner? Or the 3rd BTR-80 from the right?

 

All of your arguments are assuming the player has a real human RIO ready and waiting to hop in their jet.

As you yourself admitted, that's not always possible, so the backup is a not-so-perfect AI called Jester, who CANNOT do things a human can do.

 

The LANTIRN mod provides a workaround for his shortfalls. Jester can't do everything.

 

You should be happy that players want this mod, because by giving more for the pilot to do, it degrades his situational awareness and gives YOU an advantage. But you're going on and on like its a cheat code and the F-14 somehow has an unfair advantage over you in multiplayer.

 

So far I haven't heard a single good reason why it should be disallowed at all.

 

+1. I doubt the people “arguing” against it have ever even used it.

Edited June 15, 2019 by TacoGrease

[CoBlue]

If you're going up against me in MP in a modded Tomcat that gives you abilities that a fair playing player does not have, then I very much have a word on that. Again, what you do on your own in SP doesn't bother me at all. I'm talking about the MP arena.

We already know this mod will break when Jester will have LANTIRN control.

We want to prevent it, as we think this mod is realistic & make it allowed in MP as an server option!

So why do you care & why should you tell us how to run ours MP servers?

[QuiGon]

I really don't get what the big hangup is on Jester just being an extra bridge to you and the LANTIRN controls.

Because it's telepathic magic. This is a flight simulator, not some fantasy game.

 

If I tell Jester to tune a TACAN channel....it's instant. A sound file plays that says "roger" or whatever, but it happens instantly.

It's a pretty simple action. More complex actions like entry of coordinates do take time for Jester to be completed.

 

You can't miscommunicate with Jester. It's a user interface. You select something from the wheel and that thing happens.

 

How exactly do you talk on with Jester? You can't. I don't even know how you can assume the level of detail Heatblur will put into Jester's LANTIRN manipulation. How do you tell Jester to target the white house in a town on the NW corner? Or the 3rd BTR-80 from the right?

 

All of your arguments are assuming the player has a real human RIO ready and waiting to hop in their jet.

I was talking about the difference between the LANTIRN cheat mod and having a second crewmember in general. How LANTIRN talk on will work with Jester will have to be seen, but I doubt it will be as efficently as the LANTIRN mod, because of the indirect control that you have when telling someone else to do something instead of doing it yourself.

 

 

As you yourself admitted, that's not always possible, so the backup is a not-so-perfect AI called Jester, who CANNOT do things a human can do.

The LANTIRN mod provides a workaround for his shortfalls. Jester can't do everything.

Heatblur has stated multiple times that Jester will eventually be able to do everything!

 

You should be happy that players want this mod, because by giving more for the pilot to do, it degrades his situational awareness and gives YOU an advantage. But you're going on and on like its a cheat code and the F-14 somehow has an unfair advantage over you in multiplayer.

 

So far I haven't heard a single good reason why it should be disallowed at all.

No, I'm not at all happy about arcade features that bring magic like functionality.

[Chaogen]

So far I haven't heard a single good reason why it should be disallowed at all.

 

 

Because the F-14 is not a single seat aircraft nor does it have complete duplicated controls in both cockpits. The point of this mil-sim is that you operated the equipment in a close to similar manner that the real ship would be, within reason, instead of some balanced/nerfed "fair" participation award type war game. While you could make multiple arguments about how other developers implemented their modules or how unrealistic rearming/refueling is, but there is a difference in speeding up a process vs adding features that bypass the station in your A/C that should be handling those functions.

 

 

 

Jester is not an integrated Aircraft Systems Input AI. He is an AI RIO. He is only there because you don't have a human player sitting there, but he's not part of the A/C. His code uses the same input parameters as a human player would use. You communicate your requests to him (yes through the wheel, but it is more efficient than the Radio Menu), which he interprets and then inputs through his controls. That's fundamentally different than directly inputting your controls directly to the TGP Pod as the MOD does.

 

 

 

Ultimately if you dislike the fact that the RIO has to operate the TGP then you will need to re-asses your choice in operating platform. If you are forcing balancing on equipment to make it more "fun" than this becomes just another arcade game. The whole point is to assess, analyze, and formulate a plan to work around the deficiencies of the equipment you operate by, for instance in this case using a Buddy to Laze, JTAC or FAC until Jester gets more proficient. Alternatively get a Human RIO or another platform that suits your needs.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Chaogen

[VirusAM]

Because the F-14 is not a single seat aircraft nor does it have complete duplicated controls in both cockpit. The point of this mil-sim is that you operated the equipment in a close to similar manner that the real ship would be, within reason, instead of some balanced/nerfed "fair" participation award type war game. While you could make multiple arguments about how other developers implemented their modules or how unrealistic rearming/refueling is, but there is a difference in speeding up a process vs adding features that bypass the station in your A/C that should be handling those functions.

 

 

 

Jester is not an integrated Aircraft Systems Input AI. He is an AI RIO. He is only there because you don't have a human player sitting there, but he's not part of the A/C. His code uses the same input parameters as a human player would use. You communicate your requests to him (yes through the wheel, but it is more efficient than the Radio Menu), which he interprets and then inputs through his controls. That's fundamentally different than directly inputting your controls directly to the TGP Pod as the MOD does.

 

 

 

Ultimately if you dislike the fact that the RIO has to operate the TGP then you will need to re-asses your choice in operating platform. If you are forcing balancing on equipment to make it more "fun" than this becomes just another arcade game. The whole point is to assess, analyze, and formulate a plan to work around the deficiencies of the equipment you operate by, for instance in this case using a Buddy to Laze, JTAC or FAC until Jester gets more proficient. Alternatively get a Human RIO or another platform that suits your needs.

I don't understand why people need always to force others to see things as they wish...

Simply if you don't like this mod don't use it...

I want use it as I don't do multiplayer and i don't have real life friends who like/use sims and so no human RIO for me.

Only way to use the Tomcat as a precision bomber (until heatblur finish the jester ai) is to use this mod.

I am not an expert but probably there is a way for servers to disable the use on this mod.

Also if i don't think it is a cheat against other players...it is not a way in which you gain advantages versus human players in AA combat for example...you just became able to employ a system which exists in the real plane and you are not able to use if you don't havean human RIO.

[Chaogen]

I don't understand why people need always to force others to see things as they wish...

Simply if you don't like this mod don't use it...

I want use it as I don't do multiplayer and i don't have real life friends who like/use sims and so no human RIO for me.

Only way to use the Tomcat as a precision bomber (until heatblur finish the jester ai) is to use this mod.

I am not an expert but probably there is a way for servers to disable the use on this mod.

Also if i don't think it is a cheat against other players...it is not a way in which you gain advantages versus human players in AA combat for example...you just became able to employ a system which exists in the real plane and you are not able to use if you don't havean human RIO.

 

 

It is not a matter of perspective. It is a matter of Aircraft Design. This is a historical aircraft that had limitations. The argument here is that instead of changing the rules/environment/platform to overcome inherent "deficiencies", you can apply and improve your Airmanship to overcome them

 

What you do in your single player game is your prerogative. I merely suggest that you find ways within the realm of the sim to solve your problem instead of bypassing physics by means of a mod.

 

Also no one is asking to ban the mod if you choose to use it, as for those of us who play multiplayer, they can be screened out if need be. It should not however become the norm.

[TacoGrease]

Hopefully Heatblur will take the economically sound approach to the problem. More functionality/greater accessibility = more sales. So having an official solution like the current LANTIRN mod makes a lot of sense from that perspective alone. And as I’ve said, if it frees them up to allocate resources to other features, then it should be a no-brainer.

[key_stroked]

The point of this mil-sim is that you operated the equipment in a close to similar manner that the real ship would be

 

No, the point of DCS for me is to have fun. That's what I use it for. Please don't speak for everyone when you claim what the point of using DCS is.

 

Your experience doesn't equal everyone elses' experiences.

 

you will need to re-asses your choice in operating platform...Alternatively get a Human RIO or another platform that suits your needs.

 

This is a HORRIBLE thing to tell a customer that just bought your product. You, and others in the thread that think like you, just don't get the concept of real life vs a video game.

 

Thankfully you and others saying the same thing aren't in charge of anything regarding the F-14, because if you were I wouldn't be buying anything from you.

 

Everyone shouldn't have to play exactly the way you think they should be playing.

[fl0w]

No, the point of DCS for me is to have fun. That's what I use it for. Please don't speak for everyone when you claim what the point of using DCS is.

 

So now flight simulators are meant to have fun and not simulate? Odd.

 

This is a HORRIBLE thing to tell a customer that just bought your product. You, and others in the thread that think like you, just don't get the concept of real life vs a video game.

 

Thankfully you and others saying the same thing aren't in charge of anything regarding the F-14, because if you were I wouldn't be buying anything from you.

 

Everyone shouldn't have to play exactly the way you think they should be playing.

 

This is ironic, considering that HB have been the ones so far pushing the whole "have a real someone else in the back with you" experience. JESTER was only an option for those who like to fly by themselves. Wait for HB to implement this as a feature for JESTER himself, or get your own RIO. It isn't hard.

[Chaogen]

No, the point of DCS for me is to have fun. That's what I use it for. Please don't speak for everyone when you claim what the point of using DCS is.

 

Your experience doesn't equal everyone elses' experiences.

 

 

 

This is a HORRIBLE thing to tell a customer that just bought your product. You, and others in the thread that think like you, just don't get the concept of real life vs a video game.

 

Thankfully you and others saying the same thing aren't in charge of anything regarding the F-14, because if you were I wouldn't be buying anything from you.

 

Everyone shouldn't have to play exactly the way you think they should be playing.

 

 

Buddy, I've played a myriad of games for 30 years. I know the difference. You don't seem to understand the difference between games and simulators.

 

 

 

This sim and others like it, gives the user the ability to explore real world equipment in real world scenarios without the nasty side effect of billions of dollars wasted and lives lost.The goal is accuracy and faithfulness to real world parameters. That's what these other customers and I have paid for. Not cave in, because someone doesn't like the design of the Tomcat and can't be bothered to improve their skills.

 

 

 

I used simulators to help me get my pilots license. There is a real world aspect and application to Sims. And while I won't ever get to fly fighters, this is as close as I am going to get. Btw, the A-10C module is used to help train National Guard Pilots. Why should any other modules be any different?

 

 

 

If I want to have fun there's tons of other games like battlefield, COD, ARMA, Ace Combat ect I can go play that takes lots of artistic license to ensure the game is "fair" and fun for everyone.

[QuiGon]

No, the point of DCS for me is to have fun. That's what I use it for. Please don't speak for everyone when you claim what the point of using DCS is.

But he's right. It's a sim that aims at realism and it should stay that way.

 

 

This is a HORRIBLE thing to tell a customer that just bought your product. You, and others in the thread that think like you, just don't get the concept of real life vs a video game.

 

Thankfully you and others saying the same thing aren't in charge of anything regarding the F-14, because if you were I wouldn't be buying anything from you.

But the guys in Charge have already announced that this mod will be disabled when Jester gets the ability to use LANTIRN. So, if you want to use the LANTIRN without a human RIO, you will have Jester to do so. No need for such a cheat mod.