What thing next OB update?

[strikerdg]

I realize this is a complex sim. I appreciate the incredible work that has gone in to the hornet so far. I am confident they will eventually complete enough features that even the most in depth study folks will be satisfied with the end product. My problem is that as much as we have been told other projects won’t affect work on the hornet, common sense tells us otherwise and this is a good example. I appreciate the transparency, I really do. Making their business work in the long run is critical, and evidently lots of people will continue to buy early access modules regardless of how long it takes to get mostly feature complete. Unfortunately I will not be purchasing anything else until I can properly use the Hornet. For me that means I can fight BVR with at least TWS. I realize there was no promised timeline, but I never imagined that one year after buying this that there would still not be a way to engage multiple enemies BVR, no FLIR, and no way to input the grid coordinates given by the JTAC in hornet missions. Being completely honest I thought by now I’d have a real campaign and nearly feature complete but I do not blame ED for my expectations. The hornet is amazing and this game in general is on track for amazing things.. perhaps my perspective was off. JSOW not coming out when a rough schedule predicted does not bother me that much. However, any indications that other projects slow the hornet any more does bother me and makes me reluctant to support these (im looking at you f-16.). Rant complete and rest assured I am a huge fan and want DCS to succeed. Keep up the great work.

[Eldur]

Didn't realize the mini update Wags posted after the video. Well, a little bummer for me. Waiting another week is no biggie, but I would have had another longer weekend due to Pentecost for enjoying the new stuff. But I guess there'll be enough other new things to try out anyway. The weekend after that is one I won't be at home, so for me it's rather like having a sneak peek at the JSOW when it comes and another week more when I'll finally have enough time to do some real action with them. No real issue though, I mean we've been waiting for the Hornet module for like 15 years...

[KTFBGB]

Hey @Wags, respect for always keeping it professional. I don’t think I could do it. These guys can be brutal. I’m only 2 hours north of you in Flagstaff. If you ever need to get the hell away, especially with the heat coming, give me a PM. Ill buy you a brew at one of our famous micro brews. You deserve it.

 

I own both the Harrier and the Hornet. While it would be nice to get the updates we want, pulling out the pitchforks and torches every single week, accomplishes nothing. ED is leaps and bounds better at keeping us up to date over Razbam. I strongly disagree with the statement that ED is in debt to its customers. It’s very clear that we are buying early release. It would be a problem if they advertised the module as complete when selling it, when its not. Don’t buy early release if you have a problem with patients. Seriously, this is the best game ever made IMHO. Think about it, people on here are flaming mad about not getting an upgrade on a GAME. Meanwhile we have guys and gals from all our respective countries, fighting and dying for us, so that we can live a life where this is what we have to complain about. LOL #Firstworldproblems.

[bigalsunit]

I realize this is a complex sim. I appreciate the incredible work that has gone in to the hornet so far. I am confident they will eventually complete enough features that even the most in depth study folks will be satisfied with the end product. My problem is that as much as we have been told other projects won’t affect work on the hornet, common sense tells us otherwise and this is a good example. I appreciate the transparency, I really do. Making their business work in the long run is critical, and evidently lots of people will continue to buy early access modules regardless of how long it takes to get mostly feature complete. Unfortunately I will not be purchasing anything else until I can properly use the Hornet. For me that means I can fight BVR with at least TWS. I realize there was no promised timeline, but I never imagined that one year after buying this that there would still not be a way to engage multiple enemies BVR, no FLIR, and no way to input the grid coordinates given by the JTAC in hornet missions. Being completely honest I thought by now I’d have a real campaign and nearly feature complete but I do not blame ED for my expectations. The hornet is amazing and this game in general is on track for amazing things.. perhaps my perspective was off. JSOW not coming out when a rough schedule predicted does not bother me that much. However, any indications that other projects slow the hornet any more does bother me and makes me reluctant to support these (im looking at you f-16.). Rant complete and rest assured I am a huge fan and want DCS to succeed. Keep up the great work.

 

Well said sir.

[hansangb]

Well said sir.

 

 

Really? I found the message a bit confusing. Let me sum up and correct me if you think I got the OP's message wrong: I bought early access with no promised finish line and now I'm complaining because *my* timeline expectation was about year and ED hasn't finished it according to my table stakes requirement and timeline. But I love DCS and understand how complicated it can be.

 

 

What I will *NEVER* understand are the constant "release it even if it's not ready, I just want to enjoy it" rants followed by "why won't you finish it, I'll never buy another early access'

 

Pick one or the other. They are mutually exclusive choices.

 

You CANNOT buy into early access and complain about things not being finished.

 

If the Hornet goes GA, and there are features you want that's not there, DON'T buy it. Isn't it that simple?

 

I honestly do not know how ED/DCS staff keep it together.

[Nospin44]

I realize this is a complex sim. I appreciate the incredible work that has gone in to the hornet so far. I am confident they will eventually complete enough features that even the most in depth study folks will be satisfied with the end product. My problem is that as much as we have been told other projects won’t affect work on the hornet, common sense tells us otherwise and this is a good example. I appreciate the transparency, I really do. Making their business work in the long run is critical, and evidently lots of people will continue to buy early access modules regardless of how long it takes to get mostly feature complete. Unfortunately I will not be purchasing anything else until I can properly use the Hornet. For me that means I can fight BVR with at least TWS. I realize there was no promised timeline, but I never imagined that one year after buying this that there would still not be a way to engage multiple enemies BVR, no FLIR, and no way to input the grid coordinates given by the JTAC in hornet missions. Being completely honest I thought by now I’d have a real campaign and nearly feature complete but I do not blame ED for my expectations. The hornet is amazing and this game in general is on track for amazing things.. perhaps my perspective was off. JSOW not coming out when a rough schedule predicted does not bother me that much. However, any indications that other projects slow the hornet any more does bother me and makes me reluctant to support these (im looking at you f-16.). Rant complete and rest assured I am a huge fan and want DCS to succeed. Keep up the great work.

 

+1

[splash]

NL is not being snarky, we are generally curious where such a statement was made four hours ago.

 

When creating the video, I was very deliberate in not saying when we expect the JSOW to go to OB. Mainly because several items were still being worked on over the weekend, and not until this morning did we have a good feel for the status of the feature and its risk potential of being buggy or breaking other game elements. As such, after careful evaluation, we feel it best to give it a full week of testing once our internal testers have completed their A-8 testing.

 

Thanks

 

Thanks for the update! It is not the end of the world! Take your time to test.

[robgraham]

The issue of late is 'hey look we will show you this and say this' and then 24 hours later change your mind, and then actually make the direct comment that 'due to another aircraft' we couldn't test on this one despite this one having been paid for by a lot of people already most of whom are expecting an update this week......

 

Time and time again Both Nineline & Wags have been 'those working on the Hornet/Hornet Development etc are not in any way affected by the other products we are working on' now no doubt your talking programmers when you say this but that's not how your user base sees it when you say other products DO NOT have an impact on the Hornet we expect that to mean every part as implied when people ask if you working on X or Y is going to slow dev on the Hornet and you say No it won't because we have dedicated teams working on each. If that is the case that should include the Close Beta testing team however Wag's own post says that was not the case:

 

Because our test team has been focused on the Fw 190 A-8 release we've been unable to allocate proper testing on the JSOW before an OB release.

 

You can't have it both ways though, you can't say that other projects don't have an impact on the current Early Access Development of things like the Hornet and then have things like this happen with out your user base starting to wonder what the heck is going on and calling you on it, either the development of other air frames and products do not have an impact on the development of other Air frames in which case today's 'err its not coming out' should not happen or development of other air frames does have an impact.

 

Either way Ok so the JSOW's need some more time cooking that's fine but being told in a post that we would get these next OB and then 24 hrs later reading Oh sorry nope no your not even getting the Charlie model we just showed working, that burns more of the good will you've built up over the years, especially given that of late Hornet updates are becoming further and further apart.

 

I get it though the Early Access card will be thrown up as it always is, but that doesn't make it right either.

[Mule]

So many babies.

[Shimmergloom667]

I honestly do not know how ED/DCS staff keep it together.

 

This so much. The sense of entitlement of part of the player base is simply unbelievable.

[Mule]

This so much. The sense of entitlement of part of the player base is simply unbelievable.

 

+1

[Mule]

The “we’ve paid for it “ argument in 3...2....1

[Shimmergloom667]

And here we have a prime example, again.

[WildBillKelsoe]

It wont be released faster if you keep complaining.

[CallsignFrosty]

And here we have a prime example, again.

 

I love ED but you guys are like cult members. People cannot criticise?

I don't constantly complain but choose to vote with my wallet instead. I currently own ever module and I'm not willing to part with any more cash until I see progress being made on previous promises.

 

How you can even begin to justify an FW190-A8 pre-purchase, let alone the vastly more complex F-16C pre-purchase, considering the current state of the F/A-18C is beyond me.

 

The boomer mentality of "Teehee, woaaah guys! Another great aircraft for the hanger! :pilotfly:" is killing DCS.

People using DCS as a collector club of things they found cool as a kid instead of modules being created with fully functional systems to be used as a study sim.

It's nearly as irritating as the "Get a load of this goy - thinking he has any say on things he has paid for".

 

[Shimmergloom667]

How you can even begin to justify an FW190-A8 pre-purchase, let alone the vastly more complex F-16C pre-purchase, considering the current state of the F/A-18C is beyond me.

 

Easy: the current state of the F-18 is *fine*. It received constant updates every few weeks since it's release, it's absolutely playable and usable and we are *now* entering more complex systems which take a bit more time.

 

There is literally nothing to whine about.

 

That's why I preordered the F-16 the minute it went online for pre-purchase: because I think ED is doing a pretty damn good job and I want to express my feelings by voting with my wallet.

[Knock-Knock]

This so much. The sense of entitlement of part of the player base is simply unbelievable.

 

+1

And this incredible insight in how Eagle Dynamics works. Not even ED management have this knowledge and insight, but somehow they do.

Its like the ½ billion football fans all over the planet, knowing what is better for their club and team. Pure gold out there on the couches.

[CallsignFrosty]

Easy: the current state of the F-18 is *fine*. It received constant updates every few weeks since it's release, it's absolutely playable and usable and we are *now* entering more complex systems which take a bit more time.

 

There is literally nothing to whine about.

 

That's why I preordered the F-16 the minute it went online for pre-purchase: because I think ED is doing a pretty damn good job and I want to express my feelings by voting with my wallet.

 

*Hand Rubbing Intensifies*

[Mr_sukebe]

Shall we again add the definition of “early access” for those struggling to remember it?

[E-Rock]

A week delay is nothing in my perspective as a simmer for more than 25 years. Just grateful that DCS are still producing high grade sims and supporting what I would call a small niche market. If 2.5.5 OB comes out this week with the VR optimisation I will be a very happy camper! If not I am also cool with that. I still have much to learn and tinker with in the meantime.

[CallsignFrosty]

+1

And this incredible insight in how Eagle Dynamics works. Not even ED management have this knowledge and insight, but somehow they do.

Its like the ½ billion football fans all over the planet, knowing what is better for their club and team. Pure gold out there on the couches.

 

If you can't see that resources were diverted in order to make more money as opposed to supported and fulfilling a previous obligation then I can't help you.

 

I don't hate money, far from it - pre-purchases are an investment in ED. Investments rely a lot on previous experience and confidence in the company to reach it's goals in a reasonable fashion, reputation matters and all I can see is a damaged reputation around ED's recent business practices. I think that if we compared the pre-purchase numbers for the recent F-16C and the F/A-18C in their first week, we would see much smaller numbers for the F-16C even though it has the same appeal (or even higher) than the F/A-18C.

 

A lot of people are waiting for improvements before investing more money and their criticism should be valued. Fanboy-ism can only last so long.

 

Off topic but sort of related -

I do however applaud ED's upcoming KA50 and A10C improvements and although the hypocrisy with the new systems on the KA50 compared to the decisions made about systems on the F16C is hilarious, I will pay for the effort they have made.

Again, this is about dealing with existing customers with whom they already have an obligation BEFORE trying to sell and support a new product to new customers.

[Knock-Knock]

If you can't see that resources were diverted in order to make more money as opposed to supported and fulfilling a previous obligation then I can't help you.

 

Oh so ED should postpone the release of the A-8 module, so that we could receive a weapon for the Hornet?

 

You do realize that this changes nothing... NOTHING! Your final part of the Hornet will still arrive at given time in the future, no matter if the JSOW received testing prio or not. Just because the testing phase is delayed doesnt mean that the entire Hornet program is sliding, cause the programmers on the Hornet are still doing their thing - like finishing the remaining JSOW features. They arent idling waiting for the testers to finish testing the JSOW.

 

So no, sorry. I cant see it, cause there is nothing to see. Nothing is changed.

[al531246]

Oh so ED should postpone the release of the A-8 module, so that we could receive a weapon for the Hornet?

 

YES! That's what everyone with one iota of sense is saying. The F/A-18C is ED's flagship product right now. The absolute priority should be sustainment of that product / continued development. You've honestly made a fool of yourself with that statement friend.

[Shimmergloom667]

YES! That's what everyone with one iota of sense is saying. The F/A-18C is ED's flagship product right now. The absolute priority should be sustainment of that product / continued development. You've honestly made a fool of yourself with that statement friend.

 

No, he's pretty on spot with his reasoning.

[Nospin44]

While I don't really care specifically that the JSOW is gonna be a little late. I like most others have stated, am more upset that it was admittedly held up because of a newer EA module. I do however appreciate the transparency from ED. Just hoping the last few months is maybe just a rough patch for the Hornet. I'm just praying to the almighty DCS gods that the TGP release goes as planned.