Throttle Movement

[Guppy]

Problem: Our HOTAS Throttles have a very limited range of movement compared to the real jet. Even the TMWH Throttle, which arguably has the longest range of motion, loses a significant amount of it's throw.

- Ground/Air idle positions in the real bird severely limit the travel movement on our throttles (roughly 20%?)

 

Solution: Get rid of the way ground/air idle positions work in real life and have a more meaningful application to the sim.

- Idle should always be at 0% of our throttle vs. 0-20% (or whatever it is) as it currently is.

- As we travel forward from 0% we should begin to engage the actual throttles in the sim and thus, RPMs.

 

Purpose/Goal: The purpose is simple, it allows us to have more accuracy in using our throttles, at home, vs. losing a significant amount of throw due to the conflicts of what the real bird is like.

- Give us as much range of motion as possible with our HOTAS at home.

 

 

I appreciate the accuracy in making this as authentic as possible, but just like in the case of the TDC depress/slew; some of the these things conflict with home use vs. what it actually is like.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Guppy

[Guppy]

I just want to bump this and see if any one else has any thoughts. I think a lot of people dont realize that you lose a significant amount of throw in your throttle when flying the hornet.

 

If you look down at the throttle in game, begin to move your own throttle, you'll notice you travel about 20% IRL without moving the throttle in game when you're in the air.

[hornblower793]

I got rid of this by axis tuning at the top end - away from PC at the moment so cannot remember the exact values.

 

 

Now I have a very slight delay but it is only a small movement before it works

[royphsle]

I just want to bump this and see if any one else has any thoughts. I think a lot of people dont realize that you lose a significant amount of throw in your throttle when flying the hornet...

 

I'm agree with you, I wrote about it a while ago and nothing has happened with the throttle, that's sad. It's the same for the Harrier but not so long deadzone movement as for the Hornet. I like the Hornet and it's a verry good DCS product so I hope they can make a option with no deadzone, the throttle will be much better then:)

[Eldur]

Saturation Y to 85 and you can use the whole TMWH throttle range for flight idle to full AB. I mapped the reduce throttle (both) key to the red pinkie button to get down to ground idle. No point to hit any specific position in between.

 

 

The Viggen and Tomcat have this as well, not just the Harrier and Hornet. In some of them (dunno which since I did the Sat Y thing to all) there was even a big deadzone before the throttle would go up from ground idle at all, which was the initial reason for me to adjust the axis saturation.

[toutenglisse]

Saturation Y to 85 and you can use the whole TMWH throttle range for flight idle to full AB. I mapped the reduce throttle (both) key to the red pinkie button to get down to ground idle. No point to hit any specific position in between.

 

 

The Viggen and Tomcat have this as well, not just the Harrier and Hornet. In some of them (dunno which since I did the Sat Y thing to all) there was even a big deadzone before the throttle would go up from ground idle at all, which was the initial reason for me to adjust the axis saturation.

 

And also set the axis as cursor - what is described in this same but other thread works perfectly :

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=243714

[Guppy]

I dont understand why we need to use workarounds for this though. I've messed with the curves and it's an absolute pain and often times the curve ends up not being perfectly linear.

 

It should be as simple as 0% idle - 100% full and anything inbetween pushes RPMs. I understand the desire to make a "real" experience, but the HOTAS we use have significantly shorter throws than the real thing. Much like the TDC in the hornet (needing to push down to move it) developers should implement the sim with an understanding of the hardware we use to support it and make casual quality of life changes for us. /shrug

[royphsle]

Saturation Y to 85 and you can use the whole TMWH throttle range for flight idle to full AB. I mapped the reduce throttle (both) key to the red pinkie button to get down to ground idle. No point to hit any specific position in between.

 

 

The Viggen and Tomcat have this as well, not just the Harrier and Hornet. In some of them (dunno which since I did the Sat Y thing to all) there was even a big deadzone before the throttle would go up from ground idle at all, which was the initial reason for me to adjust the axis saturation.

 

That's not true, the Viggen has a little bit deadzone, but the Tomcat has not a deadzone at all.

[bbrz]

Just read this thread and tested the F/A-18. Setup without deadzone and no curve, the throttle slider works perfect with the F/A-18.

Even with the small area without throttle response and the rather small throttle range on the T16000M, I can control the RPM within 1% steps.

Don't know why I would need an even finer resolution.

[Guppy]

Just read this thread and tested the F/A-18. Setup without deadzone and no curve, the throttle slider works perfect with the F/A-18.

Even with the small area without throttle response and the rather small throttle range on the T16000M, I can control the RPM within 1% steps.

Don't know why I would need an even finer resolution.

 

When you're in the air and you move your actual throttle, and look down at the throttle in the pit at the same time, you dont notice that it takes like ~20% of real throttle movement to move the in game throttle? I've seen this behavior with all 3 of my throttles: TMWH, VPC T50 and TM TWCS. Maybe the crappier the throttle is the better it works? LOL

Edited July 2, 2019 by Guppy

[bbrz]

When you're in the air and you move your actual throttle, and look down at the throttle in the pit at the same time, you dont notice that it takes like ~20% of real throttle movement to move the in game throttle? I've seen this behavior with all 3 of my throttles: TMWH, VPC T50 and TM

TWCS. Maybe the crappier the throttle is the better it works? LOL

20%? No way. Btw, the hall sensor equipped T16000M is by far the most precise joystick I've ever used. But again, how much resolution do you need/expect?

Btw, every joystick that's shorter than the original stick and every throttle with less than the original travel can be considered a toy/crap ;)

Edited July 2, 2019 by bbrz

[Guppy]

20%? No way. Btw, the hall sensor equipped T16000M is by far the most precise joystick I've ever used. But again, how much resolution do you need/expect?

 

That was a tongue and cheek comment. Don't get me wrong the T16 is not a bad combo unit; just really is not a HOTAS and not my cup of tea. But you should use what ever makes you happy.

 

Regardless, it's not a resolution issue. It's the programming done between ground/air idles. In the real aircraft there is a "chunk" of space between the aft end of the throttle track and a point in which it actually engages RPMs. This is programmed into the game, so when you move your throttle from aft it does not begin pushing RPMs until a specific point. This makes X% of your throttle useless. Even if it's only 5%, you should be able to use all of your throttle movement. There's no reason why this should be built into the sim when 99% of people don't have real hornet throttle tracks.

[DrGarantia]

I know this thread is not about workarounds, but there is one that works perfectly.

 

Need to use a custom curve and the first bar in the curve should be at 87%, this is the point that separates ground idle from air idle, so if you are in the ground as soon as you move a tiny little bit it will move straight from ground idle to air idle. No range loss on the throttle.

 

For the other bar just divide 87/10 and fill the numbers for a linear response if that is your thing, ignore the rest of the curve in the picture, I kinda need a dead spot on the range so I don't waste time trying to nail MIL on my TM TWCS.

[Jamison01]

I know this thread is not about workarounds, but there is one that works perfectly.

 

 

 

Need to use a custom curve and the first bar in the curve should be at 87%, this is the point that separates ground idle from air idle, so if you are in the ground as soon as you move a tiny little bit it will move straight from ground idle to air idle. No range loss on the throttle.

 

 

 

For the other bar just divide 87/10 and fill the numbers for a linear response if that is your thing, ignore the rest of the curve in the picture, I kinda need a dead spot on the range so I don't waste time trying to nail MIL on my TM TWCS.

You can also drop the y satiation to 87 does the same thing.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[Tom Kazansky]

might fit here too(?)

 

 

 

air idle and ground idle might be realistic, but my throttle does't "know" that and let me go back all the way having air idle on the ground. have to move forward and then back again. not realistic at all.

 

 

can't we have an automatic ground idle with WOW AND thottle all the way back? maybe as a checkbox in the options for the Hornet?

[bbrz]

+1

[Eldur]

might fit here too(?)

 

 

 

air idle and ground idle might be realistic, but my throttle does't "know" that and let me go back all the way having air idle on the ground. have to move forward and then back again. not realistic at all.

 

 

can't we have an automatic ground idle with WOW AND thottle all the way back? maybe as a checkbox in the options for the Hornet?

 

 

Good suggestion. AFAIK technically some sort of detent drives up with W off W that makes it impossible to go further back than air idle. That's probably the reason it is how it is now.

 

And while we're at it, let's make the afterburner detect correct. We now have three options, always on, always off and on on the boat, which are all NOT realistic. Correct would be on at W on W, regarless if ashore or offshore. And we have the fingerlift keys to get past that. Dunno if they work at the low end BTW.

[bbrz]

Thinking about it, the problem 'theoretically' doesn't exis since you don't land the Hornet at idle.

 

The -1 mentions that if you do a minimum descent rate landing, the WOW switch might not actuate immediately and chances are that the throttles are staying at flight idle, thereby increasing the landing roll.

[Tom Kazansky]

Thinking about it, the problem 'theoretically' doesn't exis since you don't land the Hornet at idle.

 

The -1 mentions that if you do a minimum descent rate landing, the WOW switch might not actuate immediately and chances are that the throttles are staying at flight idle, thereby increasing the landing roll.

 

 

Interesting point of view. Helps getting used to the right way to land the Hornet and avoid the issue.

 

 

How does the real Hornet work? When will it let the pilot apply ground idle? Or can it be done by force over a hard point in throttle movement?

[bbrz]

How does the real Hornet work? When will it let the pilot apply ground idle? Or can it be done by force over a hard point in throttle movement?

It's a mechanical idle stop that retracts with the WOW switch. No way to override it.

 

On the other hand you can achive to ground idle in flight....just pull enough Gs and the idle stop may retract. If you now chop the throttles to idle, they will go right into ground idle.

[Tom Kazansky]

It's a mechanical idle stop that retracts with the WOW switch. No way to override it.

 

...

 

 

Thanks

[royphsle]

Hi, does anyone know what the developers are saying about the throttle movement? Will they make a option with no idle deadzone like the option for the realistic TDC slew? I hope they will make a solution because I feel that the speed often drops with the deadzone.

[River]

+1 for an option to change the throttle behaviour to get more range for finer rpm adjustments.

[Ziptie]

I must have gotten lucky with the TMWH, as the throttle movement "perfectly" matches with the in game F/A-18C throttle movement. Have the Idle OFF/ON mapped, so pulling back over the detent shuts them down, and pushing up thru the detent turns them on (IDLE detent). Don't use the AB detent, as I have developed the feel for range of motion when the AB's will kick in, thus not sacrificing the range of movement/throw. Using VR, so it's all about feel for me personally.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[dburne]

I must have gotten lucky with the TMWH, as the throttle movement "perfectly" matches with the in game F/A-18C throttle movement. Have the Idle OFF/ON mapped, so pulling back over the detent shuts them down, and pushing up thru the detent turns them on (IDLE detent). Don't use the AB detent, as I have developed the feel for range of motion when the AB's will kick in, thus not sacrificing the range of movement/throw. Using VR, so it's all about feel for me personally.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

 

Same experience for me, working beautifully.