Need Helicopter Hotas recomendations.

[BranchPrediction]

Hey all, im planning to buy a pc when 3rd gen ryzen and navi comes out, and at first i thought ill buy a thrustmaster warthog hotas for 360€ but ive seen people complain that the stick is very stiff to fly helos and that the throtle is also very stiff.

 

So can u guys tell me if this hotas is good for helos or not, and can u recomend me an alternative? Budget is +-400€.

 

I wanted a warthog because of its quality and realistic design, so are there others hotas' that also are very good in terms of quality and stuff?

[Sandman1330]

Logitech X56.

 

It allows you to remove the spring entirely, which is how helicopter cyclic work (no centering spring).

 

You can then put the spring back in easily within 30 seconds to fly fixed wing.

[cordite]

People use the Warthog and other fixed wing hotas to fly helis, but they’re just making do.

 

You did ask for a recommendation:

https://pro-flight-trainer-com.myshopify.com/collections/control-full-sets/products/copy-of-pro-flight-trainer-3rd-generation-fox-rtf-packaging-ready-to-fly

[nessuno0505]

I fly helis with a relatively cheap t16000 flight pack, same internal hardware as the warthog but softer stick, although less buttons and single throttle. I can land the uh-1 on a ship, so I'd say quite suited for helis. Of course with 400+ budget you can find something even better.

[BranchPrediction]

Hmm im looking at the logiteck x56 now, seems like a good hotas, t16000 is goos option if ur low on budget.

But still the warthog seems so cool ya know, can u remove its spring with relative ease maybe?

[Supmua]

You can remove springs on the Warthog easily. On the other hand, VKB Gunfighter base has dry clutch option meaning the stick can override the springs and stay right where you leave it which is also great for helicopters.

[RabidRider]

I bought a VKB gunfighter and the MCG with an extension. Mostly flying the Huey with it. Feels great and very smooth flying.

[BranchPrediction]

I bought a VKB gunfighter and the MCG with an extension. Mostly flying the Huey with it. Feels great and very smooth flying.

 

Heey im also from belgium :) i dont know man so many options, i geuss ill give it some thought i have time till 3rd gen ryzen gets teleased anyway

[Griffin]

If helos are your main focus and you want to be relatively serious, then I highly suggest a joystick with an extension. An extension will make the biggest difference when it comes to controls. I myself ordered the VKB Gunfighter with 20cm extension. For 400€ you will only get the stick without a throttle but it's top quality!

Warthog is also excellent for use with extensions. You can find many third party manufacturers and you could get the whole HOTAS with an extension for 400€. An extension will also solve the stiffness problem. However, the plastic gimbal is crap, AFAIK, so prepare to do some maintenance there with sand paper and grease.

[BranchPrediction]

If helos are your main focus and you want to be relatively serious, then I highly suggest a joystick with an extension. An extension will make the biggest difference when it comes to controls. I myself ordered the VKB Gunfighter with 20cm extension. For 400€ you will only get the stick without a throttle but it's top quality!

Warthog is also excellent for use with extensions. You can find many third party manufacturers and you could get the whole HOTAS with an extension for 400€. An extension will also solve the stiffness problem. However, the plastic gimbal is crap, AFAIK, so prepare to do some maintenance there with sand paper and grease.

 

How long until i would see problems with the plastic gimbal?

Is this smart or not: i buy a warthog, remove its spring and buy an extension?

[Fri13]

80-90% of the helo pilot? MCG + Extension. Remove springs and tighten the dry clutch and stick stays where you leave it.

 

The only next best thing is to get a FF stick, and ultimate one would be a VKB MCG with the contactless FF base, that if I have understood correctly is under cooperation with the other company making the such base.

 

But that would put a serious money in that.

[hansangb]

Hey all, im planning to buy a pc when 3rd gen ryzen and navi comes out, and at first i thought ill buy a thrustmaster warthog hotas for 360€ but ive seen people complain that the stick is very stiff to fly helos and that the throtle is also very stiff.

 

So can u guys tell me if this hotas is good for helos or not, and can u recomend me an alternative? Budget is +-400€.

 

I wanted a warthog because of its quality and realistic design, so are there others hotas' that also are very good in terms of quality and stuff?

 

 

You can add extensions (recommended as a matter of course) or you can do the "Warthog Spring Mod" to use it w/o extensions. I found the stick extensions a mandatory upgrade for flying helos. The extra throw really helps.

[streakeagle]

1. For all of its flaws, the Warthog is still probably the best HOTAS combination if you can afford it.

2. Even more expensive, but providing much better feel and equal or better precision is the VKB MCG Pro. If you have the money and it is in stock, the MCG Pro is simply awesome.

 

As those two products are all I have used for many years now, I can't say for sure which other products are good or bad. But if I had to buy stuff on the cheaper end, the ones I would try first are the Thrustmaster T16000 series. The internal circuits have a good reputation and you can't beat the price. The entire throttle/stick/peddle set for an insane price: https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T16000M-FCS-Flight-Pack/dp/B01N2PE8CZ/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=thrustmaster&qid=1555302498&s=gateway&sr=8-7

[tintifaxl]

How long until i would see problems with the plastic gimbal?

Is this smart or not: i buy a warthog, remove its spring and buy an extension?

 

 

Mine's been going strong since 02/2011 - no problems with the gimbal, but I don't yank the stick around. Have removed the spring a few weeks after getting it and used an 10cm extension for about a year; after redesigning my desk I don't use the extension anymore.

[metzger]

Warthog with original spring and 120mm extension works very well for RW. Longer leg gives you more precision which is very important and it has very light centering force, enough to provide you some feedback where your stick is. Real RW does have centering force, but trimming moves the center wherever the stick is when you trim. Without any spring is quite annoying, at least from my experience.

[BranchPrediction]

Allright then ill buy the warthog and an extension and see if ill remove the spring or not when its in my hands

Thanks for the advice, the dcs community is quite amazing honestly :)

 

I might eventually buy the best of the best but trackir has a higher priority.

[Sandman1330]

Real RW does have centering force, but trimming moves the center wherever the stick is when you trim.

 

This is incorrect. There is no centering force on a RW cyclic.

 

Force Trim holds the stick in it's current position, but does not recenter it. For example, if I'm in forward flight, my cyclic is quite forward of center. When I release the FTR button, the cyclic stays in that position - it does not return to center.

 

DCS simulates FTR by having the stick return back to center, but it's not realistic behaviour - it's a simplification to make it easier to use sticks that have centering springs.

 

Without any spring is quite annoying, at least from my experience.

 

Haha, yup! That's what it's like flying a helo without a force trim system (like an EC120 or Jetranger). You literally have to be holding the cyclic at all times, or it will flop over (and so will the helicopter!)

[metzger]

This is incorrect. There is no centering force on a RW cyclic.

 

 

 

Force Trim holds the stick in it's current position, but does not recenter it. For example, if I'm in forward flight, my cyclic is quite forward of center. When I release the FTR button, the cyclic stays in that position - it does not return to center.

 

 

 

DCS simulates FTR by having the stick return back to center, but it's not realistic behaviour - it's a simplification to make it easier to use sticks that have centering springs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haha, yup! That's what it's like flying a helo without a force trim system (like an EC120 or Jetranger). You literally have to be holding the cyclic at all times, or it will flop over (and so will the helicopter!)

Could be, I am no pilot, in any case irl you have but feel while the spring in the stick is only feel you have in dcs. It is already difficult to "sense" the heli, removing the spring makes it even worst.

At least from my experience

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

Edited April 15, 2019 by metzger

[smallberries]

Although you seem to have decided, while I like my WH throttle just fine, I definitely recommend VKB for your stick. The adjustment range is helpful, the smoothness far superior to the WH, even with an extension. I had an extension on the WH and when I got my VKB base I chucked the WH out and never thought twice about it. I don't even have an extension on my VKB and my helo flying improved instantly over the extension WH.

[BranchPrediction]

Although you seem to have decided, while I like my WH throttle just fine, I definitely recommend VKB for your stick. The adjustment range is helpful, the smoothness far superior to the WH, even with an extension. I had an extension on the WH and when I got my VKB base I chucked the WH out and never thought twice about it. I don't even have an extension on my VKB and my helo flying improved instantly over the extension WH.

 

But its 400 for only the stick, i definetelly will give it a look after i buy a new monitor and trackir

[BranchPrediction]

Sandman1330 u seem to know alot about helos, can u explain why u would need to trim a helo when the doesnt center?

Im sure im missing something here

[smallberries]

I'm not Sandman, but speaking for in-game only, it gets a little tiring holding your stick at a certain deflection for longer periods, and you lose a bit of finesse as well, as any micro-adjustments you make are done against the backdrop of some spring tension. Part of the reason I like my VKB base is that I have very minimal centering action, so after I trim and return my stick to center, any minor adjustments I make to my cyclic are against minimal spring tension.

 

FWIW, assuming VKB still offers the stand-alone base and adapter, you could happily go with the WH Hotas for now, try re-greasing and polishing the ball, and perhaps even getting an extension and going the spring mod. Later on, you could upgrade as I did and put the WH grip on top of a VKB base, if and when you decide you can afford and you think it will improve your game. I am a bit fussy, others fly better than me with cheaper gear ;)

[Sandman1330]

Could be, I am no pilot, in any case irl you have but feel while the spring in the stick is only feel you have in dcs. It is already difficult to "sense" the heli, removing the spring makes it even worst.

At least from my experience

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

Haha, I am a helicopter pilot, and that’s how she works. There is zero feel in the cyclic, if you feel any resistance it’s time to write her up :smilewink:

 

I’ll stop derailing this thread now. :music_whistling: edit: ok one more!

Edited April 16, 2019 by Sandman1330

[Sandman1330]

Sandman1330 u seem to know alot about helos, can u explain why u would need to trim a helo when the doesnt center?

Im sure im missing something here

 

Sure! Because the cyclic has no centering force, you have to hold it -all the frickin time-! Otherwise it will literally flop to one side due to its own weight. Think of a joystick that has no spring, it will topple to one side.

 

The force trim system IRL is simply a system of magnetic brakes (in most cases) that holds the stick in whatever position it is in. A button on the cyclic releases the brake, so whenever you move the cyclic, the button needs to be depressed. Releasing the button engages the brake and holds the cyclic in the new position. After long missions with lots of hovering, my thumb can literally get numb from holding the button down the whole mission (the system can be turned off, but we rarely do for safety reasons). For more stable regimes of flight such as cruise, with force trim engaged you can let go of the cyclic without it flopping over.

 

Not all helos have a force trim system, but most of the medium to large ones do.

 

I suppose calling it trim can cause confusion, as it doesn’t work like we would expect based on the fixed wing usage of the word...

Edited April 16, 2019 by Sandman1330

[Vladinsky]

If anyone is still struggling to visualize the force trim here it is in action.

 

 

 

This Mi24 is equipped with more advanced trim actuators offering both trim release and a trim hat like what you'd find in a plane.

 

Mind the volume.

 

 

 

And a fantastic home made version.

 

 

But on the topic, I used a warthog with a 10cm extension for about 3 years and I found it worked very well. If you only intend to fly helicopters I'd highly recommend removing the main spring, it makes flying much more intuitive in combination with the "Joystick Without Springs and FFB" trimmer mode.

 

The drawback is that you'll most likely not be able to let go of the stick but I consider it well worth it over doing the recenter dance every time I trim.

 

Just be careful if you decide to go that route, Thrustmaster wires tend to be rather fragile(as I discovered the annoying way).