DCS: Su-25A

[Max1mus]

If ED makes early 80s garbage variants like Su-25A or MiG-29A, people will just be disappointed and never buy anything russian ever again.

 

We need Su-25SM, minimum. Though at this point it should be clear that we will never get any of these modern upgrades in full fidelity, as stated many times by ED already. As such FC3 level is the only option. An upgrade of the Su-25A in DCS to Su-25SM would be nice.

[SVgamer72]

If ED makes early 80s garbage variants like Su-25A or MiG-29A, people will just be disappointed and never buy anything russian ever again.

 

We need Su-25SM, minimum. Though at this point it should be clear that we will never get any of these modern upgrades in full fidelity, as stated many times by ED already. As such FC3 level is the only option. An upgrade of the Su-25A in DCS to Su-25SM would be nice.

 

 

I beg to differ.

 

Anything added that fits into an early-to-late Cold War scenario is going to be well received by the community.

 

As amazing as the more modern jets are, there is a sweet spot between steam gauges and glass cockpits that is eagerly wanted/desired by full fidelity players.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[erniedaoage]

Yes! I am in for a full fidelity su-25a! There are those magic years from the mid 60s to mid 90s where everything was more interesting in aviation and motor racing.

[Northstar98]

Max1mus said:

If ED makes early 80s garbage variants like Su-25A or MiG-29A, people will just be disappointed and never buy anything russian ever again.

I beg to freaking differ...

And you realise the overwhelming majority of assets are 80s right? Especially REDFOR...

It's only the modern BLUFOR assets that differ, and there's nothing peer-to-peer that fits them in DCS, at all... Because every other asset peaks before the mid-90s...

Max1mus said:

We need Su-25SM, minimum. Though at this point it should be clear that we will never get any of these modern upgrades in full fidelity, as stated many times by ED already. As such FC3 level is the only option. An upgrade of the Su-25A in DCS to Su-25SM would be nice.

An SM would better fit the current A-10Cs, it would be nice yes, but if we can't get it, it'll have to be the base Su-25 (if a full-fi Frogfoot were to be considered), and I'm absolutely fine with that, and yes, I'd definitely go for it.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Weta43]

I'd love an "A", but as far as newer variants go, there's always the Su-25KM (scorpion) - it's wholly Georgian (not Russian), with Western style upgrades (So Russia wouldn't mind the avionics being reproduced, and it's not giving anything away about current Russian avionic capabilities), & Elbit might even be up for the advertising....

[Fri13]

I'd love an "A", but as far as newer variants go, there's always the Su-25KM (scorpion) - it's wholly Georgian (not Russian), with Western style upgrades (So Russia wouldn't mind the avionics being reproduced, and it's not giving anything away about current Russian avionic capabilities), & Elbit might even be up for the advertising....

 

The KM comes with the possibility switch between Imperial and SI units the system. So you are only required to change the proper avionics in the physical instruments.

 

So we could get it with a metric avionics as well for Red Air.

[ZHeN]

If ED makes early 80s garbage variants like Su-25A or MiG-29A, people will just be disappointed and never buy anything russian ever again.

 

We need Su-25SM, minimum. Though at this point it should be clear that we will never get any of these modern upgrades in full fidelity, as stated many times by ED already. As such FC3 level is the only option. An upgrade of the Su-25A in DCS to Su-25SM would be nice.

people would get even more disappointed if they get Su-25SM - it's less capable than Su-25T

[Dragon1-1]

It's a pretty solid ground attack aircraft, though. As is the Su-25A. Sure, you don't get your fancy TGP, but you can employ laser-guided munitions just fine. IIRC the Su-25SM has access to TV-guided and anti-radiation ordnance in addition to those. If you want to raise hell on the ground, it has everything you need to do so.

 

It's not an A-10, but that one is kind of hard to top, anyway. It's also not a fighter, you're not competing with Viper and Hornet with it. Su-25 is still flying and doing its job just fine, even in 2020.

[ZHeN]

lacks vikhrs, that's a big deal for DCS

[Dragon1-1]

The A-10 can do without 16 ATGMs, and so could Su-25SM. :)

[Buzzles]

lacks vikhrs, that's a big deal for DCS

Dunno, I honestly don't use them too much in the -T. If that's the "cost" for a hi-fidelity Su-25, so be it.

[LucShep]

I beg to differ.

 

Anything added that fits into an early-to-late Cold War scenario is going to be well received by the community.

 

As amazing as the more modern jets are, there is a sweet spot between steam gauges and glass cockpits that is eagerly wanted/desired by full fidelity players.

Yes! I am in for a full fidelity su-25a! There are those magic years from the mid 60s to mid 90s where everything was more interesting in aviation and motor racing.

Both these posts are how I feel it myself.

And while the SU-25A lacks vikhrs, I don't see it as an hindrance myself. Actually, it's the only variant of the SU-25 that I'd be interested for full-fidelity, and very much so.

Same goes for the A-10A as well. It's the one I have interest in, not really the A-10C module(s) we got (as good as that is).

 

Su-25A and A-10A in full fidelity = "instabuy"

 

I beg to freaking differ...

 

And you realise the overwhelming majority of assets are 80s right? Especially REDFOR...

 

It's only the modern BLUFOR assets that differ, and there's nothing peer-to-peer that fits them in DCS, at all... Because every other asset peaks before the mid-90s...

 

That's a really good point, and one I find worthy as argument for a different discussion (and sorry for going off-topic).

 

I understand that there can be important numbers involved if we think on results of the "Ace Combat pop culture", and younger aged users interested in investing time and money on a sim, specifically for the more popular and most modern fighter jets. And perhaps that can dictate a faster ROI for ED. But, to me, I always found the foundation of DCS was far more Cold War (later) period based.

So, personal preferences and bias aside, and regardless of new DLC maps representing more modern conflicts (Persian Gulf and Syria), I often find it very odd seeing the far more modern aircraft of western front, and then the whole rest of the assets and opponents not being of same era, not contemporary.

Having more DCS modules based on aircraft from the Cold War era really makes a lot of sense, IMO.

Edited October 11, 2020 by LucShep
...spelling(?)

[Northstar98]

LucShep said:

That's a really good point, and one I find worthy as argument for a different discussion (and sorry for going off-topic).

 

I understand that there can be important numbers involved if we think on results of the "Ace Combat pop culture", and younger aged users interested in investing time and money on a sim, specifically for the more popular and most modern fighter jets. And perhaps that can dictate a faster ROI for ED. But, to me, I always found the foundation of DCS was far more Cold War (later) period based.

I must be an outlier, I only recently turned 22, and I far prefer the aircraft from the 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s. For me the perfect missions for me are found in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, which is Cold War gone hot in the mid-80s.

I know that in the case of the A-10C and in-fact the A-10C II, it was bound by a USAF contract, forcing it to be something in particular.

LucShep said:

So, personal preferences and bias aside, and regardless of new DLC maps representing more modern conflicts (Persian Gulf and Syria), I often find it very odd seeing the far more modern aircraft of western front, and then the whole rest of the assets and opponents not being of same era, not contemporary.

Having more DCS modules based on aircraft from the Cold War era really makes a lot of sense, IMO.

Exactly.

I'm fine with having modern aircraft, after all I've bought most of them, but with no contemporaries missions become restricted to asymmetric missions that aren't peer to peer.

Of course, IRL our modern missions aren't peer to peer, but there still isn't much (if any) contemporary assets for them...

Edited February 20, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Fri13]

The A-10 can do without 16 ATGMs, and so could Su-25SM. :)

 

A-10C did just manage to get a 91/112 laser guided rockets (depending do you take TPOD or have buddy lazing), sure it doesn't help so much against an MBT but hell a better than a GAU-8 against them as you can have a 300-400 mm RHA penetration with the rockets, so you are effective from rear hemisphere, where with GAU-8 you are very limited.

 

So if you take a full rocket load, you are going to be devastating against any target there is, tank or not, as long it is not a modern MBT.

 

It is sad that there is almost no information about the Russian Ugroza, but considering again the type, not much should be even required to allow a weapon to be added as "prototype" status for those who would allow such be in their missions.

 

Compatible Launchers for it:

S-5

UB-16-57, UB-16-57U, UB-16-57UM,

UB-16-57UD, UB-16-57UDM, UB-32,

UB-32A, UB-32A-24, UB-32-57U,

UB-32M, B-32, UB-8

S-8

B-8, B-8M, B-8M1, B-8V7,

B-8V8, B-8V20, B-8V20A

S-13

B-13L, B-13R

 

That would make a Su-25A or any other more modern variant even more fearful because you would be there as capable as A-10C II by delivering destruction in small packages.

 

Even the Su-25A could load 40 of S-13, 160 of S-8 or 256 of S-5 laser guided rockets.

The S-5 while being ineffective by its radius, requiring more rockets, it would be very capable when you can get it on the target.

This would allow to load up just a two S-5 pods with 32 rockets on each, and carry more of the heavier rockets against MBT like a S-25L.

[Dudikoff]

I'm all for any 70s-80s airplane type which more often than not had a specific set of roles for which they had their own unique systems, tactics, sometimes even weapons, etc.

 

An Su-25 would seem to be a logical module for ED since they already have the FM done and the 3D model and even the cockpit (as a starting point at least). It has no radar or even a TV screen so its systems should be relatively straightforward to implement and some of that systems code could be partly reused for other Cold War Soviet aircraft presumably (e.g. MiG-29).

 

If they're worried if it would sell enough, they could do some analysis on how many man-hours it would take to make it and set up an Indie Go Go campaign (or whatever) where they'd only start the development if their development cost is covered.

[Alpenwolf]

+1

[Weta43]

... because afaik all the FC3 stuff is pretty much spaghetti code anyways...

 

& how do you know that ?

Because you've seen it, or because you read a post by someone else that also hadn't seen it which said it was so ?

 

(& now someone else will use your comment as a source for another post, leading to the establishment of a fact).

[Berserk]

Full fidelity Su-25 or A-10A would be fantastic module for folks starting with DCS.

[kseremak]

Full fidelity Su-25A, flying along Mi-24P in Afganistan war or NATO vs Soviets in Europe. Rolling in with guns, rockets and bombs in AAA fire!

Edited June 5, 2021 by kseremak

[upyr1]

On 10/7/2020 at 8:23 AM, ZHeN said:

no datalink, hmcs and jsow on Su-25 - nobody will buy it

I guess I'm nobody then because I'll buy a FF Su-25. 

On 10/9/2020 at 9:12 AM, Max1mus said:

If ED makes early 80s garbage variants like Su-25A or MiG-29A, people will just be disappointed and never buy anything russian ever again.

 

We need Su-25SM, minimum. Though at this point it should be clear that we will never get any of these modern upgrades in full fidelity, as stated many times by ED already. As such FC3 level is the only option. An upgrade of the Su-25A in DCS to Su-25SM would be nice.

People like myself are buying the Russian things we are getting. 

[IcedVenom]

I would buy a FF Su-25A or T.

[Cmptohocah]

On 10/7/2020 at 4:23 PM, ZHeN said:

no datalink, hmcs and jsow on Su-25 - nobody will buy it

Everything that is wrong in DCS these days, summed up in one sentence.

[ZHeN]

you're welcome, guys

thanks ED for bringing more of this nonsense

[Marsvinet]

A full fidelity Su-25 is my most wanted module. It is at least as iconic as the A-10, but coming from the other side of the iron curtain, it might not be the most popular among western aviation enthusiasts. It would never sell as well as the A-10, but it would most probably come close.  Depending on version it could actually be a real possibility. An Su-25A would definitely be possible to make a full fidelity version of. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Enduro14]

I have been saying for years we need a full fidelity su25….  All this bling bling tech is cool and all but having the equivalent of the Hog on Red side would be most welcome.  Certainly have the maps for it minus Afghanistan also to add we have the Mi8 and Hind now, we need su25 to complete that trio….

Edited September 12, 2021 by Enduro14