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MAC (Modern Air Combat) Discussion


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Honestly, I am happy that ED changed their mind (again) and will not make a seperate/standalone product

 

Agreed, but MAC will have to be maintained and cared for way better than FC3 at the moment.

 

Apart from the lack of modernized red aircraft you already mentioned, there are many bugs that have not been adressed in FC3 for a long time since it got kind of abandoned. Apart from stuff like flanker F2F not working in multiplayer, things like broken waypoints on the Su-27, radar strength on SPO15/F15 RWR being broken (F-18 and JF-17 radar way more powerful than a tomcats) dont seem to be of any priority.

 

While a modernized version would be better, a little wish i have is for the existing MiG-29A and S to get some sort of modelling of their GCI datalinks. The things are supposed to be guided around as chess pieces by GCI, who is supposed to be able to control their radars and even control the aircraft to an extent. It would be fitting since Razbams MiG-23 will have it too. Plus, if some tools for combined arms GCI are added, it would really revolutionize the multiplayer experience and make these soviet versions of the fulcrum viable in at least a 90s environment.


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You might be overthinking it, there are many people that are more into FC level aircraft, and the options to have quick and easy modern combat will have an appeal to many.   People short of time and

this illusory target audience of people who are 'not ready for dcs' will never play mac because their pride and vanity will never allow them to suffer what they will see as the indignity of a downgrad

In software development there's often nothing to show for months and years. The code is changing, but that isn't easily shown, nor is it worth showing because most people wouldn't understand what is b

I dont like how ED is focusing on the beginner friendlyness of MAC and entirely ignoring the fact that it will be the only way to have modern planes on the red side in DCS.

 

I have no clue how dynamic campaigns are going to work and be "balanced" as ED says they want them to be, when one side has avionics and missiles that were put into service 15, in most cases 20-25 years later than what the other has.

 

MAC must be used as a platform for the modules that are too difficult to make in full fidelity, yet absolutely necessairy additions for the simulator environment. Or else forget authentically recreating anything that has happened after the 90s and involved major powers (like Syria 2015) in DCS.

I think it makes a great deal of sense really, the only people really drawn to those planes in the flightsim community have very little understanding or appreciate for truly breathtaking marvels of engineering such as the Teen series fighters (how many times have we heard the "oh but muh cobra" routine before) and clearly they don't value things like advanced system modeling or multi-role capability otherwise they would've had them years ago, ED just knows its audience's taste very well.

 

 

 

Seems to me ED is on the money, why give them more when they're already amazed with the plane being able to take off and and land? Those FC3 planes are only really cheap thrills for some and training wheels for those getting into study sims

 

 

Agreed, but MAC will have to be maintained and cared for way better than FC3 at the moment.

 

Apart from the lack of modernized red aircraft you already mentioned, there are many bugs that have not been adressed in FC3 for a long time since it got kind of abandoned. Apart from stuff like flanker F2F not working in multiplayer, things like broken waypoints on the Su-27, radar strength on SPO15/F15 RWR being broken (F-18 and JF-17 radar way more powerful than a tomcats) dont seem to be of any priority.

 

While a modernized version would be better, a little wish i have is for the existing MiG-29A and S to get some sort of modelling of their GCI datalinks. The things are supposed to be guided around as chess pieces by GCI, who is supposed to be able to control their radars and even control the aircraft to an extent. It would be fitting since Razbams MiG-23 will have it too. Plus, if some tools for combined arms GCI are added, it would really revolutionize the multiplayer experience and make these soviet versions of the fulcrum viable in at least a 90s environment.

 

 

I don't see why an airplane only good for airshows needs all that :D


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"I like that MAC is like the Flaming Cliffs series, easy to pick up and go for it. It is not a real problem that you can't clickety click cockpit,..."

 

Oh yes it is, if you want to fly it in VR. The cockpits even of the old FC3 modules need an upgrade to be clickable, I think. It doesn't make sense to use the keyboard in VR. And it's not always possible to map all the functions reasoned to a HOTAS system.

 

Never understood what's the problem if only some of the buttons and switches are functional in the FC3 planes, cause not all systems are simulated.

 

For beginners, there still is the option to use the keyboard only. I know many simulations where only a few buttons in the pit are working and you could easily see which of them are without any function, while hover the cursor over the switch. If nothing happens to indicate a function, it simply has no function.


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Oh yes it is, if you want to fly it in VR. The cockpits even of the old FC3 modules need an upgrade to be clickable, I think. It doesn't make sense to use the keyboard in VR. And it's not always possible to map all the functions reasoned to a HOTAS system.

Completely agree! FC3 in VR is an insane pain in the HOTAS!

A full fidelity's aircraft is actually easier to operate than an FC3 aircraft in VR, for me, that is.

To get all the desired functionality's on one HOTAS is taking some "creative" programing and "memorization" :joystick: :wallbash: . However, to have even an "80's REDFOR" option, we don't have much of a choice.

 

From my understanding of the below interview by Growling Sidewinder and Nick Gray, MAC is still to be a standalone product. He goes in great detail about MAC and DCS. To me this is a higher quality and a more professional interview than the other, that is, in my personal opinion anyway. Weird that it doesn't seem to get as much attention (maybe because it is more professional? :huh:).

 

 


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Everytime someone from ED speaks about MAC, whether it's a DCS add-on or a standalone seems to be getting flipped around :P

 

Personally, I'd rather hope it'll be a separate entitiy. But I guess we'll eventually find out one of these days.

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Thank's for the link to this interview. Much more informative as the other one. Don't like it if people always get cut off during they try to explain something.

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Since MAC won’t be a study level sim, any chance of including super modern jets such as F-35B/C or F-22?

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Since MAC won’t be a study level sim, any chance of including super modern jets such as F-35B/C or F-22?

 

Pretty sure MAC aircraft will still have a Professional Flight Model, and getting that data for F-35/22 and such is highly unlikely.

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I allways ask in videos that ED relased about DCS

what's going on with MAC or when we can have

some video/information about it and allways someone

from ED dev team anwsers me that game will be shown

when it's ready but bruh i duno what the hell actualy is

hapening with it

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Has there been ANY word or news about MAC at this point? It feels as though it's been put on the backburner and sitting there.:noexpression:

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Has there been ANY word or news about MAC at this point? It feels as though it's been put on the backburner and sitting there.:noexpression:

 

 

In software development there's often nothing to show for months and years. The code is changing, but that isn't easily shown, nor is it worth showing because most people wouldn't understand what is being shown.

 

 

It's a bit like asking an electrical engineer to show a circuit diagram on some minute system and how it's evolved thru iteration over the last 3 months. Not really that exciting in terms of marketing a product.

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Has there been ANY word or news about MAC at this point? It feels as though it's been put on the backburner and sitting there.:noexpression:
Yes there were, not long ago. A few interviews with various ED's people appeared during pandemic quarantines and after, I believe all of them mentioned or were asked about MAC and they told things.

 

 

If something, I don't get why anybody using DCS would care about MAC after they explained what will and won't be. It's a game for beginners, still featuring PFMs and all, but without advance systems FC3 alike and fitted for console controls or keyboard and mouse. No more.

 

 

 

S!

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this illusory target audience of people who are 'not ready for dcs' will never play mac because their pride and vanity will never allow them to suffer what they will see as the indignity of a downgrade

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hahaha hey look at me i surely know more about aviation and coding than actual industry professionals hired for their competency because i have read jalopnik and wikipedia i bet theyve never even heard of google LOL

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this illusory target audience of people who are 'not ready for dcs' will never play mac because their pride and vanity will never allow them to suffer what they will see as the indignity of a downgrade

 

You might be overthinking it, there are many people that are more into FC level aircraft, and the options to have quick and easy modern combat will have an appeal to many.

 

People short of time and patience are more abundant than you might think. And it's certainly not a slight on them prefer the ease of access.

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You might be overthinking it, there are many people that are more into FC level aircraft, and the options to have quick and easy modern combat will have an appeal to many.

 

People short of time and patience are more abundant than you might think. And it's certainly not a slight on them prefer the ease of access.

 

The continued success of il2 supports this. Some people want to enjoy flight simming without a few months of study to use systems effectively...i mean, that mastery is rewarding but if youre long on responsibilities and commitments but short on time, the idea of a lengthy flight session may not be feasible. I sometimes go a few weeks because i cant budget an hour or two in one sitting to get a basic flying session in. Some of the esoterica we've come to expect in a dcs module represents perishable skills in some cases even to the RL pilots...even more so to the average joe with plenty of other things competing for what may be the most valuable commodity of all: time

 

I dont think mac is for me, but i can certainly see a niche it can readily fill

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I dont think mac is for me, but i can certainly see a niche it can readily fill
Exactly my point.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

Agreed, but MAC will have to be maintained and cared for way better than FC3 at the moment.

 

Apart from the lack of modernized red aircraft you already mentioned, there are many bugs that have not been adressed in FC3 for a long time since it got kind of abandoned.

 

That's technically right, but without context that makes it sound as if the neglect is due to carelessness, but we *all* know it's intentionally low priority. There were large discussion before, when MAC was a hot topic, whether FC3 will continue as it is or be morphed into something else or even be deprecated.

 

There's more ideas I could throw out right now, but it's late for bed now and I don't like to keep too much WIP posts around that I never finish.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

It's 2021 and you're already late if you didn't read today's newsletter 🤣🤣🤣 .

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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