DCS Carrier Discussion

[fmedges]

You will get the SuperCarrier for sure, but you would have to wait like everyone here until it gets released...

 

And yes, it is pretty annoying to buy stuff, thinking its going to be released in 6 hours and then....poooof, delay!

 

To summarize what i experienced here:

 

90% of the people aren´t that annoyed about the delay itself, but about the communications and HOW it is done...

 

I’m unsure about steam, but it sounds as if ED is refusing refunds unless they miss the new release window of 5-31-2020, I believe. Please correct if wrong.

[DBFlyguy]

That is one of my standpoints... further more, the delay announcement came out too late.

 

Yeah, I think that's what most of our issue is. Getting ED to communicate in a timely manner is like pulling teeth. It shouldn't be this hard, especially when they know a delay has been decided on.

[Cornelius]

May we have some news about the compatibility of the F14 ?

 

BTW. Because of the 1 month extra developement time, the support of the Tomcat on release should be safe, right?

 

If anyone still cares:

 

"Disabled AI kneeling (for supercarrier)

Added holdback bar (for supercarrier)

Added salute command (for supercarrier)

Supercarrier compatibility added for client/player"

[DBFlyguy]

I’m unsure about steam, but it sounds as if ED is refusing refunds unless they miss the new release window of 5-31-2020, I believe. Please correct if wrong.

 

That can't be right can it, like legally?

[DBFlyguy]

If anyone still cares:

 

"Disabled AI kneeling (for supercarrier)

Added holdback bar (for supercarrier)

Added salute command (for supercarrier)

Supercarrier compatibility added for client/player"

 

I guess we'll find out in a month or two..or three if those those patch notes are true :dunno:

[mikemadmax20]

Greetings everyone. Hope all is well with you and yours. I've been simming since the 90's, starting out with an IBM XT and then onto an AT running Jane's Combat Simulator and a few other sims. When I look back at the hx of the combat flight sim genre, including GA applications (MSFS, X-Plane and, Prepared), along with incredible advances in computing technologies and associated flight sim accessories, the genre's evolution has been absolutely phenomenal but, also fraught with peaks and valleys . As a mud-Marine veteran with combined active and reserve service, I envied those in an MOS placing them in the sky above as opposed to the mud below. I'm not going to judge who had a better time of it, as we all faced equal challenges in our own way - I think with equal measure and trepidation. I lament that when I transitioned from the Active NCO ranks to the Reserve Officer Corps and was afforded the opportunity to re-enlist and enter flight school, I allowed my wife to influence my decision to remain a ground pounder - albeit P/T. But choices have consequences. So here I am in the twilight of my years, pursuing flight sim indulgence with abandon and delight - often with the enmity of the old lady. Over time I've developed an affinity for the Hornet - it's my go-to AC. And ED has delivered a fantastic product, although its still a WIP. I jumped on the SC pre-order on the first day it was announced. Naturally I'm a bit disappointed at the delay. It will be a game changer for F/A-18 and F-14 fidelity. But, I'm mindful of my experience in the Corps and early introduction to Murphy's Law - If it can go wrong, it will. In MHO, ED will ultimately get it right and it will all work out for the better. So if its SNAFU, for now, ruck up and keep it moving people.

 

:pilotfly:

 

i7-6700K @ 4.0 GHz 4.01, 32 Gb Cosair Vengence RAM, Z170A Gaming Pro MOBO, ASUS Nvidia GTX 2080 Super Edition, DELL U3415W 34” Curved Screen Monitor (3440x1440), LG IPS LED 32” Monitor (1920x1080), ASUS VT207 19.5” Touch Screen Monitor (1920x1080), MIMO UM-760C (1024x600 Capacitive) 5” USB Touch Screen Monitor, Lilliput 8" USB Touch Screen Display, Samsung Galaxy TAB A 10.1” Touch Screen Android Tablet, TM Cougar HOTAS &, TM Warthog HOTAS (using Warthog FCS & Cougar TQS w/ TUSBA TQS R2) with TM F/A-18C Hornet add-on Stick, TM TPR Rudder Pedals &, SIMPED-Vario Rudder Pedals w/RUSBA R2. (currently using TM TPR pedals), TM Cougar MFD’s (3x) , Viper Gear ICP V1.7, Track IR 5, Corsair VOID RGB SE 7.1 Surround Sound Wireless Headset, Andre’s Gametrix Jet Seat W-908, BMS U5, DCS World (Multiple Modules and Theaters) , BMS, X-Plane, MSFSX, P3D, YAME, HELIOS, Ikarus, TM Target GUI, Voice Attack, Vaicom Pro, VMT, Simshaker Wings & Simshaker for Aviators, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Air Force Playseat.

[R_a_y_t_h_e_o_n]

That can't be right can it, like legally?

 

You agreed when you signed the contract / pressed pay to:

 

"According to End-User License Agreement

5. All charges incurred when purchasing download DCS products from the DCS Store cannot be refunded or exchanged in whole or in part, regardless of the payment method.

 

Early purchased product then goes on sale...

If you have purchased a product from the DCS e-shop and the product then goes on sale (even an hour later), we are unable to provide any refund or price adjustment. All e-sales are final."

 

ED are under no obligation to provide you with anything. You paid a bank account a sum of money for nothing with no refunds and agreed to it. You have the word of "Kate" from ED that they will offer refunds on SC if they miss their next deadline of May 2020 but its just words. The only consumer action you can take going forward is uninstall the game and share your experience.

[DOBBO45]

That can't be right can it, like legally?

I put in 8 refund requests with Steam with a detailed reasons for the request but all denied , hopefully the wait will be worth it,looks great in the trailers but steams "customer service" is lacking ,but its all good because they gifted me an su-33 ....that i already purchased :megalol:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You have the word of "Kate" from ED that they will offer refunds on SC if they miss their next deadline of May 2020 but its just words. The only consumer action you can take going forward is uninstall the game and share your experience.

 

I think you've every right to feel annoyed, and not want to buy in to EA again. However, assuming you're new to DCS and yet to explore what it has to offer, please don't give up on it entirely by uninstalling. Over the 10 years DCS has been around they've never stopped improving it. Stick with it, you'll enjoy it, and I'm sure the SC will be worth the money when we get it.

[DOBBO45]

Will 100% stick with it i have been focusing on learning the hornet and carrier landings with the stennis ,still a long way to go but i am good with that as learn something new every day and the guides on here as well as you tube are fantastic and a great help so not going anywhere soon

[Predator-78]

I am convinced that communication with the customer is a very important factor. I too have purchased almost all the modules of the DCS, but I would like a different policy from ED, you can understand all the unexpected during the development stages, but you cannot communicate it in this way. It is a bad time for everyone, but ED must somehow change its attitude.

[hornblower793]

Will 100% stick with it i have been focusing on learning the hornet and carrier landings with the stennis ,still a long way to go but i am good with that as learn something new every day and the guides on here as well as you tube are fantastic and a great help so not going anywhere soon

 

 

Have you tried using Bankler's excellent mission for carrier landings which scores and gives feedback on each phase of landing? It is really useful for understanding which bits you have consistently OK and which areas need work

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3641751&postcount=1

[fmedges]

That can't be right can it, like legally?

 

No idea, I don’t speak lawyer, but what I do know is that EULAs are not always binding and are subject to your local laws as well. A lawyer would cost more than $35 though.

Edited April 16, 2020 by fmedges

[fmedges]

I put in 8 refund requests with Steam with a detailed reasons for the request but all denied , hopefully the wait will be worth it,looks great in the trailers but steams "customer service" is lacking ,but its all good because they gifted me an su-33 ....that i already purchased :megalol:

 

I think if you actually talked to a person about it you might get some help. Maybe the community managers here could shed some light on the SU-33 issue or direct you to the right person? If it considers the SU-33 an item integral to SC the. Maybe it’s in the steam store incorrectly and needs to be looked into.

[cmfrosty]

 

That depicts my built image of people in the last weeks, many of them are always and will ever only think of themselves...

 

 

You could fertilise the Sinai with line. Don't forget to look in the mirror.

[epoch]

You agreed when you signed the contract / pressed pay to:

 

"According to End-User License Agreement

5. All charges incurred when purchasing download DCS products from the DCS Store cannot be refunded or exchanged in whole or in part, regardless of the payment method.

 

Early purchased product then goes on sale...

If you have purchased a product from the DCS e-shop and the product then goes on sale (even an hour later), we are unable to provide any refund or price adjustment. All e-sales are final."

 

ED are under no obligation to provide you with anything. You paid a bank account a sum of money for nothing with no refunds and agreed to it. You have the word of "Kate" from ED that they will offer refunds on SC if they miss their next deadline of May 2020 but its just words. The only consumer action you can take going forward is uninstall the game and share your experience.

 

ED can stick whatever they like in their EULA (or Terms of Sale). Doesn't necessarily make it legally binding. Depending on your jurisdiction there are such things as "Distance Selling Regulations" and "Consumer Credit Regulations" and indeed "Unfair Contract Terms". It's for the courts to decide what's legally binding. Not a software company, and certainly not their lawyers. In reality your average gamer does not have the resources to challenge a EULA. Their best recourse (again, depending on jurisdiction) is a payment card chargeback, on the basis the product bought does not actually exist (yet), or a complaint to your local consumer/trading standards authority.

 

That said, I do hope most of those demanding refunds are simply venting and have no intention of doing so. It would seem to be impulsive and counter productive to do so. Just be patient. I'm sure this module will be worth waiting for.

[DOBBO45]

Yes i thought that too but was very quickly shut down on the steam forum and a mod locked my thread, i have accepted it and will just wait it out just a little disappointed with steam re the Su-33 but hey ho maybe i will not use steam going forward not that they will give a hoot eh

[Steel Jaw]

They are not violating anything. Their latest early access module is delayed and they have explained why. I don't like it anymore than anyone else, but their own Terms of Service clearly cover the subject.

 

If you can persuade a local Judge to agree that the terms and services are wrong, and your own local laws out trump them then good luck to you. They may well agree with you for a fee, but that is it, they can agree the terms are in your opinion wrong, but they can do jack squiddly about it.

 

 

I stand by what I said.

[Wayan]

You could fertilise the Sinai with line. Don't forget to look in the mirror.

Did I hit a nerve?

 

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[pete_auau]

Find it amusing that users want a refund now and will buy it when it comes out, only problem is that they will most likely paying full price for it

[NeilWillis]

ED can stick whatever they like in their EULA (or Terms of Sale). Doesn't necessarily make it legally binding. Depending on your jurisdiction there are such things as "Distance Selling Regulations" and "Consumer Credit Regulations" and indeed "Unfair Contract Terms". It's for the courts to decide what's legally binding. Not a software company, and certainly not their lawyers. In reality your average gamer does not have the resources to challenge a EULA. Their best recourse (again, depending on jurisdiction) is a payment card chargeback, on the basis the product bought does not actually exist (yet), or a complaint to your local consumer/trading standards authority.

 

That said, I do hope most of those demanding refunds are simply venting and have no intention of doing so. It would seem to be impulsive and counter productive to do so. Just be patient. I'm sure this module will be worth waiting for.

 

What software purchase with terms and conditions doesn’t state that refunds will not be made?

 

The issue that makes all software purchases one way, with no refund possible is the fact that intellectual rights override consumer rights. That means that when you take delivery of software, you have received access to intellectual property which cannot then be given back. Hence the clause, which courts will not overturn.

 

We haven’t received any software? No, but you have entered into the agreement, and you accepted those terms. Good luck getting anything refunded through the courts!

[Cornelius]

Did I hit a nerve?

 

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no, this should encourage self-reflection

[Wayan]

no, this should encourage self-reflection

I do, that's why I think of the recent behavior of some people. But I think that is not part of a carrier discussion...

 

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[R_a_y_t_h_e_o_n]

I have no doubt ED will -eventually- release something and I was fully clued in to the risks of supporting Early Access when I purchased,

my disappointment stems from ED misselling me a module. To date Super Carrier has and will need an additional 4 months of development

just to get it to a state where it can be sent to open beta.

 

The point of sale front page and promotional material released made Super Carrier out to be a full fidelity, fully functioning complete module

in the final stages of testing before general release to Early Access. In reality it would appear SC hadn't been beta tested and was instead

a few nicely dressed up screenshots barely out of an alpha state.

 

After missing the initial release date they used the false pretext of not releasing new modules during a sale to delay again and buy themselves

an extra month of development. Eagle Dynamics then chose to hype up the 15th as release day even after the acknowledged internal realisation

over the previous weekend they still did not have any module they could release.

 

I get the impression the behind the scenes is a team of two or three guys working in their bedrooms trying to make a mod to an impossible

time frame, they deserve a pay bonus and a proper paid holiday after this. But I like others have every right to be peed off and until

ED management get their house in order its going to rightly cost them my business.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I have no doubt ED will -eventually- release something and I was fully clued in to the risks of supporting Early Access when I purchased,

my disappointment stems from ED misselling me a module. To date Super Carrier has and will need an additional 4 months of development

just to get it to a state where it can be sent to open beta.

 

The point of sale front page and promotional material released made Super Carrier out to be a full fidelity, fully functioning complete module

in the final stages of testing before general release to Early Access. In reality it would appear SC hadn't been beta tested and was instead

a few nicely dressed up screenshots barely out of an alpha state.

 

After missing the initial release date they used the false pretext of not releasing new modules during a sale to delay again and buy themselves

an extra month of development. Eagle Dynamics then chose to hype up the 15th as release day even after the acknowledged internal realisation

over the previous weekend they still did not have any module they could release.

 

I get the impression the behind the scenes is a team of two or three guys working in their bedrooms trying to make a mod to an impossible

time frame, they deserve a pay bonus and a proper paid holiday after this. But I like others have every right to be peed off and until

ED management get their house in order its going to rightly cost them my business.

 

I have no qualms about giving ED a hard time if they screw up. I also respect your decision to no longer (pre) purchase their products if you lack the confidence in them to deliver.

 

However I'm not sure you're basing your decision on the actual situation, including where you got 4 months from. As it stands the delay could be as much as 2 months, and these delays aren't down to features not being ready, just that they've experienced issues towards the end when they moved to large scale testing.

 

I'd also like to note that in 10 years this is the first time I can remember them ever missing an EA release date.