F-14 Air to Air tactics

[rweaves6]

I’ve seen a lot of good F-14 reference material here on the site, both written and video. A huge thank you to Victory and others for taking the time to help the community out.

 

There are many different reasons we fly this module, for me it’s my love of air to air combat. I haven’t been able to find much for F-14 BFM or ACM tactics on this site or the internet in general. A simple google search gives a wonderful old video from the 70s but really all you get from that is to go vertical.

 

I thought it would be great if we could start a thread to discuss tactics for aerial combat in the F-14. I’m mainly talking BFM, bare sticks and stones fighting. I’m of the opinion that the best way to start is to understand the basics-how to position yourself on a bogeys six, in close proximity for a gun kill. With this we can truely understand the aircraft’s characteristics, limitations, and tendencies.

 

So please share any resources or personal experience whether its armchair sim or if you have real life experience. Let’s keep this specific to the F-14, after all there is a ton of reference material for general BFM and ACM on the internet. Perhaps this could serve as a basic reference for those interested in learning BFM tactics in the Cat.

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

One resource I've found very helpful is Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering by Robert Shaw. you can find a pdf through a google search.

 

Its a bit difficult to digest (certainly not light reading), but it is a very detailed and helpful guide to explaining the best way to employ a fighter as a weapon.

[TLTeo]

My personal best guess is - if we're talking WVR:

 

against pretty much anything that isn't a Flanker, Fulcrum or Hornet is the Tomcat will enjoy a decent advantage in turn radius and available G at Mach ~0.7 or below, so keeping the fight horizontal and one circle should work fairly well.

 

I'm not sure what the best way to deal with those 3 is, probably conserve energy while bleeding theirs, wait for them to make a mistake and go vertical. You probably have a performance edge against all three (minus the Fulcrum perhaps?) so you should be able to disengage from bad situations relatively easily. Ideally I'd keep the fight at BVR using the Phoenix, and only enter the merge if the situation is favourable though.

 

 

edit: +1 for Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering, that thing is the bible of A2A combat. Using the terminology of that book, I'd fly the Tomcat as the angles fighter against most fighters except Hornet/Fulcrum/Flankar, against which I'd try energy tactics.

[rweaves6]

One resource I've found very helpful is Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering by Robert Shaw. you can find a pdf through a google search.

 

Its a bit difficult to digest (certainly not light reading), but it is a very detailed and helpful guide to explaining the best way to employ a fighter as a weapon.

 

Thanks, yes I have that book and you’re right-it is a great resource. For this thread I was hoping to keep it strictly F14 specific. I understand that a basic and fundamental understanding of aerial tactics applies to any aircraft, but I was hoping we could get to the specific strengths/weaknesses of this bird.

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

Thanks, yes I have that book and you’re right-it is a great resource. For this thread I was hoping to keep it strictly F14 specific. I understand that a basic and fundamental understanding of aerial tactics applies to any aircraft, but I was hoping we could get to the specific strengths/weaknesses of this bird.

 

Sorry :P

 

I'd agree with not wanting to get slow and turn against any of the fourth-gen fighters. I think really almost any fight if I can't get a bead after about three or four turns, it's time to start thinking about bugging out and trying to re-engage. That's what I've been doing against the f5's in the practice missions at least. (Usually gets him to waste a missile or two into the bargain)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Sergeant_Hamlet

[dAsReLiCT]

ACM and BFM are not designed specifically for the F14 is valid for any aircraft, but you have partly the performance charts.

 

 

 

But try this

 

 

 

 

https://mega.nz/#F!WR9hwQoK!NXGsaNB-30aOO8Ki_KS0tA?aU1lGIzZ

CNATRA P-825 - A2A Intercept Procedures Workbook - September 2010.pdf

Edited March 18, 2019 by dAsReLiCT

[Cytarabine]

Really enjoyed that video from Grumman (sure it was cheesy 70’s stuff but it was educational and reminded me of what the strengths of the Tomcat are). I have now taken to keeping my energy up, getting my opponent to bleed theirs and getting a firing position that way. Anyway still learning this bird (and loving it, such a different beast to the Hornet or Mirage).

[rweaves6]

ACM and BFM are not designed specifically for the F14 is valid for any aircraft, but you have partly the performance charts.

 

 

 

But try this

 

 

 

 

https://mega.nz/#F!WR9hwQoK!NXGsaNB-30aOO8Ki_KS0tA?aU1lGIzZ

CNATRA P-825 - A2A Intercept Procedures Workbook - September 2010.pdf

 

Nicely done, there’s some great resource material there. Thanks!

[CheckGear]

There's also Navy Fighter Weapons School at NAS Miramar.

 

 

Oops, sorry, DCS: F-14B is so real, I forgot it's not 1995. :P

[Pikey]

Since ACM is platform agnostic as theory and teachings, what the post here is really asking is for a F-14B versus X break down of limitations and weaknesses to expose.

 

 

That's a tall order to get straight in a forum post and it's also going to be situationally independent in the arena of Player versus Player which brings with it extra items like current module performance, game limitations, player setup, DCS weapon performance and so on.

 

 

 

Are we really going to discuss all that meaningfully in one thread? You would need a thread just for the silly stuff the Phoenix active radar can do right now, a seperate thread for RWR indications per module receiving, a seperate thread for Jester in PvP and how to keybind the hell out of the back seat from the front and it will soon dissolve into low altitude radar performance in DCS and ultimately fights break out.

 

 

If there is anything super tangible to exploit (because that's how one person beats another) then you can be sure some groups will keep their information under wraps. For example, I recall the information on how to defeat Amraam from an SPO RWR and the exact timing and it resulted in "Press X, X, X, Y, jump left and duck, to defeat it every time". I also recall mapping the exact ranges of the Mig-21 SPO lights to distances via tacview and came up with pretty exact ranges for contacts. I kept that to myself but everyone did it.

 

 

FWIW, 'we' are working on these things internally now. For everything else, the SEM booklet from the Navy gives you the "how-to" as best practice learning skills at basic pre squadron training level

[rweaves6]

Since ACM is platform agnostic as theory and teachings, what the post here is really asking is for a F-14B versus X break down of limitations and weaknesses to expose.

 

 

That's a tall order to get straight in a forum post and it's also going to be situationally independent in the arena of Player versus Player which brings with it extra items like current module performance, game limitations, player setup, DCS weapon performance and so on.

 

 

 

Are we really going to discuss all that meaningfully in one thread? You would need a thread just for the silly stuff the Phoenix active radar can do right now, a seperate thread for RWR indications per module receiving, a seperate thread for Jester in PvP and how to keybind the hell out of the back seat from the front and it will soon dissolve into low altitude radar performance in DCS and ultimately fights break out.

 

 

If there is anything super tangible to exploit (because that's how one person beats another) then you can be sure some groups will keep their information under wraps. For example, I recall the information on how to defeat Amraam from an SPO RWR and the exact timing and it resulted in "Press X, X, X, Y, jump left and duck, to defeat it every time". I also recall mapping the exact ranges of the Mig-21 SPO lights to distances via tacview and came up with pretty exact ranges for contacts. I kept that to myself but everyone did it.

 

 

FWIW, 'we' are working on these things internally now. For everything else, the SEM booklet from the Navy gives you the "how-to" as best practice learning skills at basic pre squadron training level

 

I agree for the most part with what you’re saying, many great points. But again, I stated very clearly that I’m talking strictly bare bones guns BFM. I was hoping to ignite a fruitful discussion on the F14’s flight characteristics, advantages and disadvantages in a pure dogfight. I believe this is where you get the true representation of an aircraft’s flight characteristics that you can then build on with radar and weapon platforms. Those of course are an entirely different discussion.

 

I also realize that no one is going to flush that all out in a single post. My hope was that maybe through this thread individuals could extrapolate new ideas that could then be implemented and experimented with.

[imacken]

I would love to get some advice on A2A combat in the Tomcat. It is so different to any other module I've flown on DCS and I am really struggling.

Take the BFM Instant action missions in NTTR, I just lose all energy (speed) doing a fairly undemanding turn. I get nothing but shakes and spins, speed going down to almost zero, gain some energy and height then I can hardly get any movement from the pitch axis.

I'm obviously doing something seriously wrong here. Some basic advice appreciated!

[rweaves6]

I would love to get some advice on A2A combat in the Tomcat. It is so different to any other module I've flown on DCS and I am really struggling.

Take the BFM Instant action missions in NTTR, I just lose all energy (speed) doing a fairly undemanding turn. I get nothing but shakes and spins, speed going down to almost zero, gain some energy and height then I can hardly get any movement from the pitch axis.

I'm obviously doing something seriously wrong here. Some basic advice appreciated!

 

Yes, I think this will be a common experience for most in the F-14. It is important to use maneuver flaps when you get that higher alpha, and just baby corrections on the stick and rudder to roll. As soon as you start trying to throw the nose around however you want you’ll find yourself in a lot of trouble. Best to have enough energy and a light stick when maneuvering to keep the aircraft from buffeting.

[Kirkey_badgers]

Adopt the mentality and tactics of a marine sniper and use them in the air :huh:

[Coxy_99]

Well you can leave jammers at home they dont work against 14.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Coxy_99

[vadupleix]

I find it so hard to do a coordinated turn in the Tomcat. In the Bf109 after initially established a turn all I need to do is to keep the roll axis of the stick centered and hold the bank using rudder. The feeling of how much rudder needed is quite accurate but in F14 I don’t get any feeling on that and the ball just jumped all over the place. That probably contributed to the seemingly poor turn performance of the cat.

What seems to benefit me a bit is to try to abuse the aircraft, yank the stick, hold high AoA and stabilize the jet using rudder, it gives me the feeling of how the cat responds at edge of envelope.

[1Shot1KiLL]

Yes, I think this will be a common experience for most in the F-14. It is important to use maneuver flaps when you get that higher alpha, and just baby corrections on the stick and rudder to roll. As soon as you start trying to throw the nose around however you want you’ll find yourself in a lot of trouble. Best to have enough energy and a light stick when maneuvering to keep the aircraft from buffeting.

 

stop yanking on that stick. me on the other hand am struggleing not to black out :pilotfly:

[Victory205]

Good grief guys, look in the Sticky Section.

[TonyG]

Good grief guys, look in the Sticky Section.

 

Hard to do that when you’re waiting to be spoonfed.....

[rweaves6]

Good grief guys, look in the Sticky Section.

 

Hard to do that when you’re waiting to be spoonfed.....

 

Are you two serious? I started a thread to discuss F-14B BFM tactics in a f14 sim forum. How is that asking to be spoon fed? What sticky are you referring to? This thread was meant to be a spitball discussion.

If you’re not interested in giving constructive input then why bother responding at all? Have a nice day

[rweaves6]

Good grief guys, look in the Sticky Section.

 

And the very first thing I did in the op was thank you for your input. :cry:

[Baz000]

Good grief guys, look in the Sticky Section.

 

Are you referring to the practical handling tips you wrote or some other thread? Just want to make sure I know the right one you're referring to.

[dAsReLiCT]

I find it so hard to do a coordinated turn in the Tomcat. In the Bf109 after initially established a turn all I need to do is to keep the roll axis of the stick centered and hold the bank using rudder. The feeling of how much rudder needed is quite accurate but in F14 I don’t get any feeling on that and the ball just jumped all over the place. That probably contributed to the seemingly poor turn performance of the cat.

What seems to benefit me a bit is to try to abuse the aircraft, yank the stick, hold high AoA and stabilize the jet using rudder, it gives me the feeling of how the cat responds at edge of envelope.

 

 

Just trim nose down and pull the stick like the L39:pilotfly:

Edited March 20, 2019 by dAsReLiCT

[Victory205]

Spend some time practicing and noticing the sound and feel at different AOA. Fly various maneuvers looking over your shoulder, keeping your head out, only glancing at the AOA and ASI.

 

Try some basic loops at Mil at different entry speeds with a 4-5 G pull to a 15 unit pull over the top. See how slow you can enter and still get it over the top. Then do it using burner.

 

The rest is in the Handling tips. Practice finess, you can't just put your feet on the instrument panel and pull with both hands.

 

I thought you Ready Room hero's knew out to fly? ;)

[Cytarabine]

Spend some time practicing and noticing the sound and feel at different AOA. Fly various maneuvers looking over your shoulder, keeping your head out, only glancing at the AOA and ASI.

 

Try some basic loops at Mil at different entry speeds with a 4-5 G pull to a 15 unit pull over the top. See how slow you can enter and still get it over the top. Then do it using burner.

 

The rest is in the Handling tips. Practice finess, you can't just put your feet on the instrument panel and pull with both hands.

 

I thought you Ready Room hero's knew out to fly? ;)

 

You mean it takes practice to get good at BFM?