F14 Skinners thread (Paintkit in 1st post)

[LanceCriminal86]

BC7 is what Heatblur used, I usually use Linear BC7 myself.

[Jagohu]

8 hours ago, LoganTMT said:

What do I save the textures as to get the Textures to work when I'm saving to the Intel Texture Works? What Compression do I use for it? Like is it a BC1 or BC7?

 

Thanks,

Logan Thurman

I use BC1 4bpp linear (Color, NO ALPHA) for the "normal" parts of the skin, which means it's about 11 Mb/file.

For the HB_F14_LOD1_3in1.dds file though I use BC7, Linear, 8 BPP Fast(Linear, DX11+), Color NO ALPHA though, making it a size of around 16.7 Mb.

 

I personally could not see any quality difference if saved in BC1 or BC3 or BC7, but saving in BC7 doubles the size and if you have many different skins loaded at the same time it does impact performance quite a bit.

[Zlip]

Never seen this camo before. Like it or not, very unusual (don't have more information).

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Zlip

[LoganTMT]

So my file has an alpha channel for the roughMet file. what should I save the DDS as?

[LanceCriminal86]

16 hours ago, sa63114200 said:

Hi,

 

I believe there is a bug in the texture files for the wings! When I try to paint over the hinges (number 2/5 and 3/5 from left) on the left wing, it shows up on the right wing! - and painting the hinges on the right wing won't do anything.

 

I suspect when HB was creating the right wing texture and used the left wing (as they are symmetrical), they forgot to update the hinge elements, or something along that line.

 

Since my wing design is not symmetrical and cannot move the pattern to avoid the hinges, I am stuck until HB updates the texture files. HB, please comment and let us know when we can expect a fix?

 

Thanks.

 

It's among the model fixes submitted to them a while back including the NACA duct change, some UVW map tweaks, and a few other things that were already addressed. With them working on further early A and late A, plus Iran A changes I expect we will see the fixes rolled in when those model updates are complete.

16 hours ago, Zlip said:

Never seen this camo before. Like it or not, very unusual (don't have more information).

 

Temporary water based camo, usually used for adversary stuff at NAS Fallon, sometimes for TARPS stuff like the Reconnaissance Air Meet, might have been used in the Gulf War as well. There's pics around, VF-24 had a few jets that way, VF-211 has, VF-124, and a few other squadrons as well. You can see a second jet waaaay back there in brown.

 

Also I guess that pic didn't take long to get scraped from the Tomcat Association group, I know some folks frown on that. One group threatens to ban anyone for reposting them on Pinterest etc. if they find out who did it.

[Cocker]

2 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

Also I guess that pic didn't take long to get scraped from the Tomcat Association group, I know some folks frown on that. One group threatens to ban anyone for reposting them on Pinterest etc. if they find out who did it.

 

What's the reason behind this?!

[Zlip]

Ho. Well. Thanks for the informations !

 

4 hours ago, Cocker said:

 

What's the reason behind this?!

 

Iran is watching ! 

[=Skywarp=]

23 hours ago, Zlip said:

Never seen this camo before. Like it or not, very unusual (don't have more information).

F-14A VX-4 evaluators, Temporary camouflage, Nas Fallon | Fighter jets,  Camoflauge, Aircraft

 

 

 

 

[LanceCriminal86]

9 hours ago, Cocker said:

 

What's the reason behind this?!

 

Because some of the photographers make a living off their photos, put them in books, etc. and they've gotten really edgy about people grabbing photos and heading off with them, then using them in articles, publications, etc. without any credits.

 

I know of at least 2-3 that are extrememly strict and you have to attribute any photos you post or they won't allow the post, they block photos from airfighters, airliners.net, etc. because they think they will get sued.

 

The photo in question is actually of Vance Moon at VX-4 and was posted just the other day in the Tomcat Association.

[Zlip]

To avoid any misunderstood, I just edited and delete the picture.  

[Uxi]

I'll say again,  we need pods allowed on 1B and 8B and having blue as well as red TCTS pods to go with the white one would be nice.  

[LanceCriminal86]

3 hours ago, sa63114200 said:

Thank you LanceCriminal86 for commenting on the issue with the textures on right wing hinges. I'll wait for HB to roll out and update and take care of the problem.

 

Meanwhile, I am looking for the texture file for the refueling boom. I can recognize it in the thumbnail #24 in the HB_F14_LOD1_3in1 file, but I don't know where to find it. Any pointers will be appreciated.

 

HB_F14_REFUELING_PROBE.dds

 

Look under F14 > Textures > Diffuse_Roughmet

 

You'll also need to dig up the correct material string for the LUA file, early on in the thread there should have been a full listing of all of them. Alternately in the modelviewer2 window there should be a button to generate a livery file, it may include it in there.

[LanceCriminal86]

4 minutes ago, sa63114200 said:

You came to the rescue - again. It worked like a charm :)

 

{"HB_F14_REFUELING_PROBE", 0 ,"HB_F14_REFUELING_PROBE" ,false} ;

 

This was the last piece of the puzzle I needed to reduce the wear and tear and weathering of a skin I'm working on.

 

Myself and a few other have spent an absurd amount of time counting rivets and trying to get these skins right, so at this point it's second nature to go find stuff. The current model has A, B, and D features due to scans of different jets being combined, but thankfully at least some of it can all be "fixed" in the textures, roughmets, and diffuse. I'm trying to get mine done but every photo I look at and work with I find other things to change, so it has taken quite a while longer than just dropping the colors into the template and rolling with it.

 

In addition, there were changes between the blocks of As, different Bs got different upgrade packages, and some Ds were A rebuilds and retained some A features.

 

Long story short between about 3 of us hopefully a lot of the texture work is already done for the corrections to the A, and they can be combined into new base textures and a new template at some point. This way Ensamvarg, Cobra, etc. can spend more time on other projects like Forrestal and AI A-6, and actual model changes that can't be handled with a tweak to the roughmets.

 

 

So far I think the model tweaks is limited to:

- Fix to UVWs on right wing

- Adjust the UVWs or entire nacelle texture so the panels and main gear brace leg thingy line up with the port

- Remove outside NACA on right nacelle and move it to inside of right nacelle

- Remove D model "vents" that are apparently related to Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) exclusive to the D as of 2001 [https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/f-14-a_2002.pdf]

- Add RWR humps around the intakes for the ALR-45, have the no-fairing versions for the early blocks (Maybe custom anim argument and in-game flags to select which RWR).

- Apparently revise the insides of the GE engine nozzles to be more similar to the Viper's

- Differing TCS options: full TCS, Bullet fairing, ALQ-100 nub only (and having them tied to maybe custom animation arguments, and an in-game flag to disable TCS as needed)

- Gun vents, early vs late.

- Dynamic modex?

 

The rest of the things I've been seeing can be done in textures, stuff like:

- the nacelle having a different panel layout on the A vs the B,

- the A model's vents that are on the outside right and inside of left nacelles,

- the little nub vents that are just below the above vents,

- the leading edge reinforcement of the vertical stabilizers.

 

After THAT, it's wishlist stuff like a D model TCS for AI usage (or pretending), removable refueling probe covers, things like that. Heck, maybe even start carts or huffers like the A-4E-C team added that appear and disappear based on your radio commands.

 

Hopefully it will be beneficial to the community. Guys that don't care about it can continue to not care, guys that do hopefully will enjoy it. And hopefully it helps push skins to get better and better. There are some great skins in the contest, and I think they'd look even better dropped in with the revised textures whenever that's ready, but some tweaks will still have to be done by the individual skinners on the stencils themselves.

 

And yes, I actually am doing stuff lol, need a proper roughmet and weathering pass now that I thiiiink I'm done doing B to A revisions. Shmoo42 and YaeSakura's versions of the roughmet and normal alterations are probably better, I'm just trying to get it done in time:

 

 

 

 

[Skysurfer]

On 1/17/2021 at 12:36 AM, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

Myself and a few other have spent an absurd amount of time counting rivets and trying to get these skins right, so at this point it's second nature to go find stuff. The current model has A, B, and D features due to scans of different jets being combined, but thankfully at least some of it can all be "fixed" in the textures, roughmets, and diffuse. I'm trying to get mine done but every photo I look at and work with I find other things to change, so it has taken quite a while longer than just dropping the colors into the template and rolling with it.

 

In addition, there were changes between the blocks of As, different Bs got different upgrade packages, and some Ds were A rebuilds and retained some A features.

 

Long story short between about 3 of us hopefully a lot of the texture work is already done for the corrections to the A, and they can be combined into new base textures and a new template at some point. This way Ensamvarg, Cobra, etc. can spend more time on other projects like Forrestal and AI A-6, and actual model changes that can't be handled with a tweak to the roughmets.

 

 

So far I think the model tweaks is limited to:

- Fix to UVWs on right wing

- Adjust the UVWs or entire nacelle texture so the panels and main gear brace leg thingy line up with the port

- Remove outside NACA on right nacelle and move it to inside of right nacelle

- Remove D model "vents" that are apparently related to Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) exclusive to the D as of 2001 [https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/f-14-a_2002.pdf]

- Add RWR humps around the intakes for the ALR-45, have the no-fairing versions for the early blocks (Maybe custom anim argument and in-game flags to select which RWR).

- Apparently revise the insides of the GE engine nozzles to be more similar to the Viper's

- Differing TCS options: full TCS, Bullet fairing, ALQ-100 nub only (and having them tied to maybe custom animation arguments, and an in-game flag to disable TCS as needed)

- Gun vents, early vs late.

- Dynamic modex?

 

The rest of the things I've been seeing can be done in textures, stuff like:

- the nacelle having a different panel layout on the A vs the B,

- the A model's vents that are on the outside right and inside of left nacelles,

- the little nub vents that are just below the above vents,

- the leading edge reinforcement of the vertical stabilizers.

 

After THAT, it's wishlist stuff like a D model TCS for AI usage (or pretending), removable refueling probe covers, things like that. Heck, maybe even start carts or huffers like the A-4E-C team added that appear and disappear based on your radio commands.

 

Hopefully it will be beneficial to the community. Guys that don't care about it can continue to not care, guys that do hopefully will enjoy it. And hopefully it helps push skins to get better and better. There are some great skins in the contest, and I think they'd look even better dropped in with the revised textures whenever that's ready, but some tweaks will still have to be done by the individual skinners on the stencils themselves.

 

And yes, I actually am doing stuff lol, need a proper roughmet and weathering pass now that I thiiiink I'm done doing B to A revisions. Shmoo42 and YaeSakura's versions of the roughmet and normal alterations are probably better, I'm just trying to get it done in time:

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. There's also the untextured TCS internals and that misaligned bumpmap on the engine necelle where the strut reinforcement attaches. Just sticks out pretty obviously. I'm also mostly fine with having these "mixed features since the F-14 like you said way pretty diverse in variants and rebuilt versions. It just has to look authentic and not have obvious glitches or even missing textures.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Skysurfer

[LanceCriminal86]

6 hours ago, Skysurfer said:

 

Agreed. There's also the untextured TCS internals and that misaligned bumpmap on the engine necelle where the strut reinforcement attaches. Just sticks out pretty obviously. I'm also mostly fine with having these "mixed features since the F-14 like you said way pretty diverse in variants and rebuilt versions. It just has to look authentic and not have obvious glitches or even missing textures.

 

 

I've tried to explain before the bump map is not misaligned, the entire nacelle texture is or the landing gear modeling is. 

 

This thing about mixed features too though is not authentic. There are distinct patterns and reasons for the differences, not because 2 different variants were scanned. The differences should be correctly matched to the blocks, upgrades, and versions of the jet. That's what we're helping work towards, identifying features that shouldn't be present.

[Skysurfer]

9 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

I've tried to explain before the bump map is not misaligned, the entire nacelle texture is or the landing gear modeling is. 

Bruh.

[LanceCriminal86]

Notice how the brace from the landing gear properly inserts into the black tombstone shaped cutout here, which is technically correct. But also notice the cutout and the panel to the lower left, which are technically where that needs to be. So, either the landing gear has to come slightly back and down, OR, the whole panel line needs to shift up and to the right, where the strut/brace itself is.

 

 

Here's some closeups of the left gear, same thing but from different angles showing how that cutout aligns with the corner of that panel:

 

 

A whole album of the F-14A / NF-14D at Patuxent River, only seems to have one of the external D model tells, the double vents on the right side above the Navy that may have been for the OBOGS, otherwise she was an A externally but with D model guts inside (And retained TF-30s),

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/108510743@N05/albums/72157637643948734/with/14461898269/

 

Bonus pics of that area, A model that was with VF-41 OEF/OIF

 

 

It looks to be a combination of the process to create and skin the model that was missed, but then again it was noticed because they moved the black cutout texture to match the model. I'm not sure if shifting the UVWs would fix it or not because then everything has to shift, and it also brings various proportions into question as well.

[Uxi]

IIRC there was a change in the fuselage where the gear braced... and then a decade or so later,  cracks began to appear in the bulkhead... so then that bulkhead was made of or reinforced with titanium. 

[WolfHound009]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:36 PM, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

Myself and a few other have spent an absurd amount of time counting rivets and trying to get these skins right, so at this point it's second nature to go find stuff. The current model has A, B, and D features due to scans of different jets being combined, but thankfully at least some of it can all be "fixed" in the textures, roughmets, and diffuse. I'm trying to get mine done but every photo I look at and work with I find other things to change, so it has taken quite a while longer than just dropping the colors into the template and rolling with it.

 

In addition, there were changes between the blocks of As, different Bs got different upgrade packages, and some Ds were A rebuilds and retained some A features.

 

Long story short between about 3 of us hopefully a lot of the texture work is already done for the corrections to the A, and they can be combined into new base textures and a new template at some point. This way Ensamvarg, Cobra, etc. can spend more time on other projects like Forrestal and AI A-6, and actual model changes that can't be handled with a tweak to the roughmets.

 

 

So far I think the model tweaks is limited to:

- Fix to UVWs on right wing

- Adjust the UVWs or entire nacelle texture so the panels and main gear brace leg thingy line up with the port

- Remove outside NACA on right nacelle and move it to inside of right nacelle

- Remove D model "vents" that are apparently related to Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) exclusive to the D as of 2001 [https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/f-14-a_2002.pdf]

- Add RWR humps around the intakes for the ALR-45, have the no-fairing versions for the early blocks (Maybe custom anim argument and in-game flags to select which RWR).

- Apparently revise the insides of the GE engine nozzles to be more similar to the Viper's

- Differing TCS options: full TCS, Bullet fairing, ALQ-100 nub only (and having them tied to maybe custom animation arguments, and an in-game flag to disable TCS as needed)

- Gun vents, early vs late.

- Dynamic modex?

 

The rest of the things I've been seeing can be done in textures, stuff like:

- the nacelle having a different panel layout on the A vs the B,

- the A model's vents that are on the outside right and inside of left nacelles,

- the little nub vents that are just below the above vents,

- the leading edge reinforcement of the vertical stabilizers.

 

After THAT, it's wishlist stuff like a D model TCS for AI usage (or pretending), removable refueling probe covers, things like that. Heck, maybe even start carts or huffers like the A-4E-C team added that appear and disappear based on your radio commands.

 

Hopefully it will be beneficial to the community. Guys that don't care about it can continue to not care, guys that do hopefully will enjoy it. And hopefully it helps push skins to get better and better. There are some great skins in the contest, and I think they'd look even better dropped in with the revised textures whenever that's ready, but some tweaks will still have to be done by the individual skinners on the stencils themselves.

 

And yes, I actually am doing stuff lol, need a proper roughmet and weathering pass now that I thiiiink I'm done doing B to A revisions. Shmoo42 and YaeSakura's versions of the roughmet and normal alterations are probably better, I'm just trying to get it done in time:

 

 

 

 

Will the ALQ-100 nub only option just be on the IIRAF cat or the USN cats as well?

[LanceCriminal86]

10 hours ago, WolfHound009 said:

Will the ALQ-100 nub only option just be on the IIRAF cat or the USN cats as well?

 

No clue, but it was implied they were doing a really early Tomcat in some form that potentially could also have the ALQ-100 only, but I don't work for them. Only Cobra or IronMike can talk to how they plan to approach it. In my mind, a combination of animation arguments and in-editor flags/options would allow for the most flexibility. Then you can tie the TCS housing to a skin, and use some kind of <disable TCS> option in the mission editor if for example you wanted to use an early ALQ-100 jet or even a later jet but with the bullet fairing.

 

I'm not sure how deep they have explored the whole animation argument thing as far as model options, I know the C-101 thing heavily uses it for things like strakes, HUDs, all kinds of configurations that you can set with animation arguments. If the TCS and ALR-45/67, beaver tail, and fuel tank pylons could all somehow be controlled in the same manner along with pilot models (particularly helmets), it would be ideal for mixing and matching eras without having to make a switch in the game options between missions for example. Select skin, select flags in mission editor, and go.

[_YaeSakura_]

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3314534/

 

Super Tomcat Prototype seen as my HB Livery Competition has been approved(in record time) for distribution~

[=Skywarp=]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:28 AM, sa63114200 said:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3314432/

 

 

 

 

Fantastic job, sir!!

[isoko]

Halfway there...

[RaisedByWolves]

Damn Isoko, work of art!

[Tomcatter87]

Another fantastic set of skins, Isoko! That one is giving me goosebumps.