[NO BUG] Bad optimization

[Jaakov]

I have i5-4460, gtx 1060 6gb, 250gb ssd and 16gb ram and I must say that I havent't observed any of this, I was quite surprised that the performance wasn' t almost affectet except longer loading times.

I havent' checked the fps, but it doesn't feel stuttery ... I have even managed to play the 104th dedicated whole evening.

[OnlyforDCS]

So in the interest of SCIENCE I've upgraded to a RTX2060 today. From the GTX970 in my signature.

 

The loading times seem to be unafected, but the texture pop-in is much quicker and my framerate is now a solid 60FPS in most conditions. Stutter has been almost completely elminated.

 

It looks like this confirms that it is NOT a RAM issue but a VRAM one. The RTX2060 is 6GB compared to the 3.5 GB of the GTX970. Obviously a faster graphics card helps, but I believe that the Tomcat uses up a whole lot more VRAM compared to the other modules in the game.

[dave9810]

So in the interest of SCIENCE I've upgraded to a RTX2060 today. From the GTX970 in my signature.

 

The loading times seem to be unafected, but the texture pop-in is much quicker and my framerate is now a solid 60FPS in most conditions. Stutter has been almost completely elminated.

 

It looks like this confirms that it is NOT a RAM issue but a VRAM one. The RTX2060 is 6GB compared to the 3.5 GB of the GTX970. Obviously a faster graphics card helps, but I believe that the Tomcat uses up a whole lot more VRAM compared to the other modules in the game.

 

 

But you said loading times haven't changed.

 

I have a 970 and once in game I get smooth 60fps. The issue is load times are upwards of 5mins which I never had months ago.

[OnlyforDCS]

Loading times haven't changed, but the texture pop in (when entering a multiplayer server) is now much, much quicker. I had to wait over 2 minutes before I could start up the plane, now it's only 10-15 seconds.

 

I have no idea how you managed to get smooth 60FPS in multiplayer, there was no way I could do it without horrible microstutters and 0 FPS drops every now and then.

[Poncho_grande]

So in the interest of SCIENCE I've upgraded to a RTX2060 today. From the GTX970 in my signature.

 

Wasn't the 3.5GB VRAM on the 970 a bit of a scam, and ended up being like 3GB in effect?

 

Cuz I got a HD 7950 with 3GB of VRAM as well. I managed to fly about an hour without a crash on GaW today, but there were only about 10 people on.

 

Curiously enough, my cockpit textures load in as fast as they do with your 2060. Also, I haven't noticed general performance being any different from any other aircraft, with the notable exception of the Jester menu, which makes me lose about 10 fps the first couple of times I open it.

[dave9810]

I haven't been able to get into MP due to load times. Although I'm able to get to the slot select perfectly fine. Selecting an aircraft results in huge load times (game frozen) and then disconnect.

 

A few patches ago I was able to play MP fine, with smooth game play and none of these crazy load times

 

I don't think the issue is down to the Tomcat only. There must be a problem on ED side as my loading times are very long - longer than normal - no matter what aircraft I try.

[OnlyforDCS]

I haven't been able to get into MP due to load times. Although I'm able to get to the slot select perfectly fine. Selecting an aircraft results in huge load times (game frozen) and then disconnect.

 

A few patches ago I was able to play MP fine, with smooth game play and none of these crazy load times

 

I don't think the issue is down to the Tomcat only. There must be a problem on ED side as my loading times are very long - longer than normal - no matter what aircraft I try.

 

I've tried the same server/mission with the Tomcat, F15C and Mirage. You are right the issue is not limited to the Tomcat, but it is much much more noticable compared to every other module. I guess that is due to the much higher detail/polygon count, textures etc. compared to previous modules.

 

Once everything loads in the performance on the GTX970 was much poorer in the Tomcat compared to other modules.

[OnlyforDCS]

Wasn't the 3.5GB VRAM on the 970 a bit of a scam, and ended up being like 3GB in effect?

 

Cuz I got a HD 7950 with 3GB of VRAM as well. I managed to fly about an hour without a crash on GaW today, but there were only about 10 people on.

 

Curiously enough, my cockpit textures load in as fast as they do with your 2060. Also, I haven't noticed general performance being any different from any other aircraft, with the notable exception of the Jester menu, which makes me lose about 10 fps the first couple of times I open it.

 

It was marketed as 4GB but in reality only had 3.5GB. Yeah could be that the memory management on your AMD card is much better, or works better at least in DCS compared to how Nvidia does it, maybe the VRAM is much faster, or works better in tandem with regular system memory. Who knows?

[dave9810]

Once everything loads in the performance on the GTX970 was much poorer in the Tomcat compared to other modules.

 

Strange. Once I'm in the Tomcat, performance for me is the same as any other aircraft.

 

I've noticed watching MSI afterburner while loading the mission, CPU usage never goes above 30% and GPU usage didn't go above 5%.

[Harlikwin]

I have a 980m. And run vr exclusively, i had to drop settings sime to get the cat to run well compared to the hornet and others. Its not as bad as the mig21 but its close.

[JG27_Arklight]

Hey guys. 8-12GB of RAM and a 970 (3.5GB of effective VRAM) is unfortunately significantly below the standard of high performance gaming today.

We recommend 16Gb for SP or 32GB for MP in the F-14 at present.

 

I know this looks like we're passing the buck; but there's a limit to how much we can optimize a 2 person, animated crew, complex jet. We'll continue to try and improve performance of course!

 

 

My lifted F150 with 35" tires doesn't get as good of gas mileage as my Honda Civic.

 

Please fix.

[JG27_Arklight]

So in the interest of SCIENCE I've upgraded to a RTX2060 today. From the GTX970 in my signature.

 

The loading times seem to be unafected, but the texture pop-in is much quicker and my framerate is now a solid 60FPS in most conditions. Stutter has been almost completely elminated.

 

It looks like this confirms that it is NOT a RAM issue but a VRAM one. The RTX2060 is 6GB compared to the 3.5 GB of the GTX970. Obviously a faster graphics card helps, but I believe that the Tomcat uses up a whole lot more VRAM compared to the other modules in the game.

 

I run 12gb of RAM as well ( I went from 6 to 12).

 

There are 2 things that I noticed GREATLY improved my game loading/performance:

 

1. Moving from a GTX 280 to a 1070 Ti

2. Moving from a traditional HDD to an SDD

 

I have NO issues with textures loading in at all now and I play in 4K Ultrawide. The SSD helped a HUGE amount in loading times and the 1070 Ti greatly improved performance.

 

The 12gb of RAM has seemed fine so far.

[dave9810]

My lifted F150 with 35" tires doesn't get as good of gas mileage as my Honda Civic.

 

Please fix.

 

 

I don't think the issue is completely down to poor hardware using the Tomcat. There are people with good systems affected.

 

Loading times has changed for ALL aircraft I've tried. If it was down to the Tomcat then I shouldn't have this.Once finally loaded, game performance is the same for all aircraft. Tomcat isn't heavier.

 

ALL AIRCRAFT TAKE FOREVER TO LOAD.

 

Last time I played without issue was January, since then every patch has made performance worse.

 

I believe its partially a patch issue and something broken on ED side.

Edited March 15, 2019 by dave9810

[NineLine]

I've seen people mention issues with other aircraft, but I am unable to reproduce. We should keep this thread clean with Tomcat issues though and if you are having issues with others, post to their forums.

[Zergburger]

Hi ED,

Can you make really good looking modules and maps that are huge?

 

 

Hi ED,

My toaster is having trouble running DCS since the new modules and huge maps and i dont know why.

[ebabil]

This is what it looks like when I get into the jet in Multiplayer. This does not happen in Singleplayer! After a while (about 60 seconds) the textures load up. However I get consistent hitches when looking around and hitting switches in the cockpit. After getting in the air it is marginally better, but still extremely stuttery.

 

I would appreciate the help to determine the problem. Is it a VRAM or a RAM problem? Since Im getting solid 60FPS in the single player instant action and training missions I believe it to be the latter, but I can't be sure.

 

this image reminded me old fsx days. all planes looked like this for a while when camera type was changed

[kubanloewe]

yep i have so many modules and all of them run fine and smooth after a few minutes of loading all the shit in background.

 

 

But F14 seems not playable for me ! It stutters after half an hour or forever sometimes regardless if multi or singleplayer.....Is it the Yester shit behind me ? could i switch this idiot out ??

[ebabil]

I hope they offer a low res textures also.

[Whisper]

My lifted F150 with 35" tires doesn't get as good of gas mileage as my Honda Civic.

 

Please fix.

 

If there is an amazing feature of the Tomcat that would explain the performance tax, then ok. Otherwise, this kind of argument is silly, and performance drop is due to poor optimization. Other modules achieve correct performances, including modern ones that have high fidelity systems, which could cause performance issues. Jester, maybe, is performance taxing?

 

Anyway, saying "it's new, so it requires more power" is just a lazy way to hide potential optimization issue. Useless argument.

[Redglyph]

I have 16 GB of RAM for the CPU and 6 GB for the GPU. In general the performances are OK when using the simple training missions. Some of them have static F-14s so it probably doesn't represent a typical busy mission.

 

I get regular freezes of 1-2 seconds in flight or taxiing, that I never get with other modules (in Caucasus, that is, I didn't even try in Normandy).

 

Seeing the huge amount of space it takes on the disk, it could be due to the little space remaining in memory for the DCS world after the F-14's textures are loaded (overall it doesn't look as if optimizations were the primary concern). Or it could be the module initializing something, I don't know, it's just breaking the immersion quite effectively.

 

It's otherwise a great module, I hope those performance issues can be tackled soon.

[FSKRipper]

I completely understand that the F14 is performance hungry, but we were led to believe by Cobra that it is around 15-20% slower than other modules, this is acceptable. However the reality is much different.

 

For me exactly this is the case, less than 10% fps reduction in comparism to the F-18 (mirrors off) so I don't see that they claimed something wrong.

[FSKRipper]

I get regular freezes of 1-2 seconds in flight or taxiing, that I never get with other modules (in Caucasus, that is, I didn't even try in Normandy).

 

It's otherwise a great module, I hope those performance issues can be tackled soon.

 

Have you tried using a SSD? It solved all of my stutter (loading from disk) problems. I can especially recommend using the M2 variants if possible on your side.

[Redglyph]

Have you tried using a SSD? It solved all of my stutter (loading from disk) problems. I can especially recommend using the M2 variants if possible on your side.

 

I'm using an SSD. You are correct, before that I was getting a lot of those when starting even the Nevada map in 1.5. Since then it's smooth (except Normandy) :)

 

It happens also in very local flights, for example the shore take-off or the landing missions. So it's likely the F-14 either computing or initializing something, or loading data. I suppose a good test would be (i) very low world radius, (ii) low-quality textures, in order to see where this is coming from.

[OnlyforDCS]

For me exactly this is the case, less than 10% fps reduction in comparism to the F-18 (mirrors off) so I don't see that they claimed something wrong.

 

It appears this is true for high end systems, however on low to mid range systems the performance hit is much worse. If that is indeed the case, and further optimization is difficult for those systems then minimum system requirements should be highlighted on the DCS, Steam product pages of the module.

Edited March 16, 2019 by OnlyforDCS

[fl0w]

From what I've found, I am able to host my own MP server with an F-14B. The pilot takes time to load in, but I am able to get in and have people in my RIO seat. Doing the same for RIO takes very long to load, but I still get in.

 

For now, this seems to be the only workaround besides getting the elite gaming rig.