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Q. WOULD Y LIKE  

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  1. 1. Q. WOULD Y LIKE

    • YES
      6
    • NO
      18


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For the community of DCS have for the last three weeks approx. 4- 6 h a day cause I busted my leg ,I have been asking questions compering the mountain of pc components against other pc components. Well to make matters worse ADM decides to bring out a new CPU GREAT makes it so much better so ill go buy that then a months time INTEL will counter ADM. So now I have this pain of wait an see or just buy, So I have been give great feedback on the type of components to build a pc but now I'm looking at prebuilt pc say from Alienware.

 

MY Question to you all is if had the chance would you like to see a PC that Is prebuilt and tested and is capable of VR multiplayer for the sole purposes of running DCS, The benefit of this to me seems endless . i hope I have setup a simple poll it is a Y/N vote I hope not done this before.

 

"note price of pc is not needed at this point"

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Well currently a PC for DCS is pretty much formula driven based on wallet contents and what performance level you can accept. :)

 

 

 

Besides spec-ing and building the PC is fun. so I voted No. :music_whistling:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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No, and I tell you why.

 

hardware is the less problematic part in this equation. That you can fix with a wallet in 24h.

 

Once you have all those parts and software packs, maybe even pre-essembled and installed, it will go SOUTH from day 1 on unless you take care of your system and really invest time & effort into it. It's a constant rat's race with updates, drivers, upgrades, etc.. and if you dont watch out, you end up with 2 x 2080ti in SLI fired by a 9900k and you still get stuck, money will not fix that as easy as a GPU purchase does.

 

I say this cause I used to build ( still do from time to time ) Gaming rigs for my buddies and the biggest factor was and is THEIR limited understanding of PC maintenance.

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No, and I tell you why.

 

hardware is the less problematic part in this equation. That you can fix with a wallet in 24h.

 

Once you have all those parts and software packs, maybe even pre-essembled and installed, it will go SOUTH from day 1 on unless you take care of your system and really invest time & effort into it. It's a constant rat's race with updates, drivers, upgrades, etc.. and if you dont watch out, you end up with 2 x 2080ti in SLI fired by a 9900k and you still get stuck, money will not fix that as easy as a GPU purchase does.

 

I say this cause I used to build ( still do from time to time ) Gaming rigs for my buddies and the biggest factor was and is THEIR limited understanding of PC maintenance.

 

Well said ! I initially meant to make these points in my post , but gave the result up as a hopeless mish-mash . You have stated them much more succinctly , and with greater clarity....

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"Hold my beer"

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It's not that bad of an idea, just do not trigger wrong hopes that the poor guy that builds and sells those PC cant hold the promise if the other side of the phone or table cannot comply for said reasons. That's where I see the problem in the long run and in RL.

Look at Alienware 4year ProSupport, I mean it really is great but it has it's limits. I am not sure if they would help troubleshooting DCS VR issues or controller quirks. You either invest in your own skills or you have a hard time and best case, a steep learning curve. The other side would be an expensive setup that wont get used cause no one in the household knows HOW. I have seen that with close friends a couple times. They saw me flying back in the days with Hotas and RogerWilco, online...and wanted the SAME. Despite they got a perfect rig and me as their buddy it was almost a a garanty to have fun, but sim was too complicated ( I face the same now with limited time at hand, very similar situation ) to understand and have fun. Sometimes

money is not the only thing.

 

I see the same with another hobby of mine that I "teach" to newcomers. You either have time and passion and are willing to learn knee deep into it or you are better off watching it as a spectator and still have tons of fun. better than finding out its not for you the hard way.

 

Contrary, there are players out there that are top notch pilots and just know enough to get their systems in good shape and keep it there. Those have the most fun imho. I spent far far too much time with everything else in DCS World these days when i should just be FLYING.

 

 

In simple words, if you think DCS is what you want and are willing to spend 3-5k on a rig you should also commit yourself to it in a wider scope.

 

You not only buy the rig, you also buy the administrator title and hardware engineer badge.

 

Even people who work with PC's daily have their "oh, this is new to me" in DCS as it touches so many aspects that hardly any other game I came across does and needs. Others you install and SHOOT. Well, not so in DCS ;) haha.

 

Time is also a thing.

I mean, not many titles can claim to have such a long life with avid support and content.

I rejoined the Flanker/DCS world in 2012 after a 10 year pause and the controls still felt alike

in the Su27, just better. TEN years later.

I dont plan to fly anything else or play anything else for the next 10 years, honestly. I barely have enough time to keep pace here. In that aspect, it's worth getting to know the mechanisms at work as the accompany you for so long. Roger Wilco became TS, then Discord. CoolieHat->TiR->VR. Voodoo-DX7 T&L--DX11--Vulkan, things come and go but ED has managed to bridge time and stay.

 

So yeah, its worth investing if you love flying.

For some, it's actually better to just watch and enjoy what we do.

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Spot on BitMaster

 

Your totally right BitMaster ,That's where I hope the game developers might look at cause they must be loosing thousands simply cause individuals don't have the time to understand a pc and all of its complexity's ,yes it would make you a better person if you undertook learn for yourself but that just it not every one is capable, or have help fix a problem on call right there locally, and that's just the PC not alone the Game with it`s progress steep learn curve .cause unless there just going to rehash console games, I think the games are only going to get more Complex and time to understand what the pc is doing is not viable.

 

 

SO with that said I'm opening a sort of round table of ideas and way to close the gap for everyone to enjoy a better gaming experience.

its not going to be easy but keep an please open mind. cheers brad.


Edited by Bradader
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Bit has got it spot on. I used to be considered a PC expert, many years ago. Now I don't have the time or inclination to keep up with every detail. DCS almost requires being knowledgeable about every detail of the latest hardware/software/drivers.

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Bit has got it spot on. I used to be considered a PC expert, many years ago. Now I don't have the time or inclination to keep up with every detail. DCS almost requires being knowledgeable about every detail of the latest hardware/software/drivers.

 

It's beyond what 1 mind can cover imho.

Asus Z370-E - 8700K@5G_delidded - 32GB - 1080GTX-Ti EK-waterblock - 1x 960Evo 250GB - 3x Samsung 850/860Pro 256GB Raid-0 - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 2x Seagate 2TB - 32GB PageFile - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@4x180mm fans - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win10Pro64 

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The concept of a PC purpose built for DCS doesn't make any sense, because the result is simply a high-spec gaming PC.

 

What hardware is there that would specifically benefit DCS?

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To answer youre Q. It is Combination of things keep in mind not everyone is a "overclocking mod building professor",;) DCS has no end in sight as far as I know, As new aircraft being built aircraft system get more complex time to learn everything is all consuming. The idea so far is to conform PC`S IE : A ''DCS PC '' this pc will have the same: Hardware-Software-Accessory have lifetime support for and from Game Developers- Hardware-Software-Accessory & 3rd party and before it go's on sale it has been Tried & Tested, so to minimize your time spent in forums troubleshooting something that going wrong.

That's where I hope the game developers might look take at cause they must be loosing thousands simply cause individuals don't have the time to understand a pc and all of its complexity's , not alone the Game with it`s progress steep learn curve .cause unless there just going to rehash console games, I think this flight sim is only going to get more Complex and time to understand what the pc is doing is not viable. I hope I have answered your Question its a work in progress

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It's not that easy.

 

Just follow this forum alone for some time and you will get a view on the spectrum, how far apart players are, how capable or not.

 

Just an example ( real world ):

 

I build and fix your enthisiastic PC for like 4-5k€. The best CPU you can get, fat mobo, 64GB, double NVMe, 10Gbit ready, WLAN AC, 4k, 1 or 2 2080ti, 10-pro, etc etc..

 

So, I install it, test it with my gear ( in this sceanrio you dont buy mouse, keyb, Hotas ) and it all seems to work....until it arrives at your place and you connect your input devices.

Next day my phone rings "hey Bit, your PC doesnt go to sleep mode...and..btw...The Taskbar locks up every now & then"

 

Things I had with my own 10 multiple times, could solve them all but the Taskbar thing for example youhave to reinstall & pray it wont come back, that is life with 10.

 

There is no such thing you wish there was. It only needs that much to tilt aside and NOT be what you expected, what then ? If the issue is beyond an admin's capabilities ( rewrite 10 code or rewrite NV driver, Hotas driver, etc... ). Whom would you blame when it comes to such a show stopper ? Me, nobody, MS, Jensen, ED,...? it may be nobody fault and just bad luck.

 

I dont wantto destroy your dreams, just ground them a little :)

 

Bit

 

*your evil admin

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Ans for brun

 

To answer youre Q. It is Combination of things keep in mind not everyone is a "overclocking mod building professor",;) DCS has no end in sight as far as I know, As new aircraft being built aircraft system get more complex time to learn everything is all consuming. The idea so far is to conform PC`S IE : A ''DCS PC '' this pc will have the same: Hardware-Software-Accessory have lifetime support for and from Game Developers- Hardware-Software-Accessory & 3rd party and before it go's on sale it has been Tried & Tested, so to minimize your time spent in forums troubleshooting something that going wrong.

That's where I hope the game developers might look take at cause they must be loosing thousands simply cause individuals don't have the time to understand a pc and all of its complexity's , not alone the Game with it`s progress steep learn curve .cause unless there just going to rehash console games, I think this flight sim is only going to get more Complex and time to understand what the pc is doing is not viable. I hope I have answered your Question its a work in progress

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To my evil admin

 

Hi BitMaster yep i can see what you saying, I was hoping that this forum would aspire a group of people who are would be leaders in there field and with a lot more knowledge than I

will ever have be able to do some thing along this line of thought, Or if DCS with the Business Contacts could do something, cause problems you point out like that sounds like only Microsoft could fix. Well maybe. I be the first to say it nearly impossible, But that dam saying,'' Build it and they will come keeps " back at me:helpsmilie:


Edited by Bradader
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To answer youre Q. It is Combination of things keep in mind not everyone is a "overclocking mod building professor",;) DCS has no end in sight as far as I know, As new aircraft being built aircraft system get more complex time to learn everything is all consuming. The idea so far is to conform PC`S IE : A ''DCS PC '' this pc will have the same: Hardware-Software-Accessory have lifetime support for and from Game Developers- Hardware-Software-Accessory & 3rd party and before it go's on sale it has been Tried & Tested, so to minimize your time spent in forums troubleshooting something that going wrong.

That's where I hope the game developers might look take at cause they must be loosing thousands simply cause individuals don't have the time to understand a pc and all of its complexity's , not alone the Game with it`s progress steep learn curve .cause unless there just going to rehash console games, I think this flight sim is only going to get more Complex and time to understand what the pc is doing is not viable. I hope I have answered your Question its a work in progress[/quote This has bee already posted sorry.[/u]

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Hi BitMaster yep i can see what you saying, I was hoping that this forum would aspire a group of people who are would be leaders in there field and with a lot more knowledge than I

will ever have be able to do some thing along this line of thought, Or if DCS with the Business Contacts could do something, cause problems you point out like that sounds like only Microsoft could fix. Well maybe. I be the first to say it nearly impossible, But that dam saying,'' Build it and they will come keeps " back at me:helpsmilie:

 

There are any number of "what do you think about this PC?" thread on this forum. So I think the opportunity to learn is there. And each MOBO manufacturers have their own wiki forum when it comes to learning how overclock CPUs.

 

If there were a collection of recommendations in a wiki format, people could certainly benefit from it. As is right now, you have to use google and site search to find what you need.

 

I think that's what you're getting at?

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Had to LOL at this thread. The primary purpose of my build was DCS, with secondary general gaming, Blender, and Avid Media Composer. I'm not sure we can get this hobby to plug and play status.

 

Just last weekend I lost a couple of hours of fun time to troubleshooting. A case of the dreaded stutters. Not really a micro-stutter, it was more stuttery than that, almost like a control input stutter when you don't clear out the axis profile in the DCS controls page and there is a conflict, more of a hitchy stutter-stutter than a micro-stutter. Went through all the usual steps, turn off OC, TARGET, TRACKIR...nope, still there.

 

Spent another hour chasing Gremlins. I was worried about SLI. Could there be a new conflict with known good compatibility bits and the new OpenBeta build? Nope, turned off SLI, still there.

 

Turns out it was a setting on my panel. Some Samsungs can do a neat interpolation trick up to 120Hz and it usually works very well. Smooths out TRACKIR panning. It was causing some weird artifacts in the latest build.

 

When my wife wants to game, she picks up her PS4 controller, powers on, and starts playing. I love to tinker and build PCs. Sometimes, I just want everything to work like it's supposed to and just fly. That's usually when I have to troubleshoot a stutter or an unexplained FPS drop. It never stops...

SimRig: Winter '18/19

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Sn8ke_iis,

 

spot on ! There will be no plug & fly for DCS. it ain't that simple.

 

 

Now figure how much you'd have to pay to a professional, on a sunday afternoon, trying to fix what you described above.

 

I took 75€ per visit, regardless how much work, 1, 2 or 3 laptops, no matter, for personal use.

 

For stuff like that that needs brains, i used to charge 75€/h for business works, now how many hours again, sundays.... that is above what 99.99% can spend on their hobbies, incl. me.

 

 

If you wanna fly R/C planes, learn how to.

If you want to drive fast, learn how to.

If you want to fly DCS, learn even more.

 

As sad as it is. I am not against this idea, in NO WAY. I just see the the impossibility to achieve it with normal means and a normal budget.

 

Hire me for 15k/month in Abu and I fix the Sheik's DCS-PC 24/7....hehe

( dont forget my Ferrari ! )


Edited by BitMaster

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Sn8ke_iis,

Now figure how much you'd have to pay to a professional, on a sunday afternoon, trying to fix what you described above.

 

When my wife saw that I was showing some visible frustration because I just wanted to fly and not trouble shoot - I have very limited leisure time lately - I remarked that even if I called Geeksquad or some tech service I don't think they would even be able to help much unless they are a DCS fan.

 

Nvidia Inspector downloaded from the right link on Github...compatibility bits, power settings, drivers, ...Process Lasso, multiple background programs like TARGET, TrackIR, Geforce Experience, Discord, Teamspeak, Afterburner, etc...Registry edits for USB power settings...it never stops...And that's without even getting into BIOS and overclocking. Then, there's the calibration settings for my display that I would never have been able to learn myself except for rtings.com...if you want peak performance than you have to do a custom cooling loop...OSDs and fan tuning to keep up with temps...

 

A lot of my issues stem from keeping my panel on a cart and watching movies, etc. If it was dedicated to DCS I would not have to disconnect USB and HDMI ports which causes issues with TARGET and the native Samsung settings like Game Mode. Definitely not plug and play, you have to manually change a few settings and the panel tries to autodetect the graphics card but doesn't know what it is.

 

You want a trouble shooting nightmare? Try RGB Aurasync. Spent more time messing with that than building my custom loop and it still won't recognize the SLI bridge. I think it's the first time I've ever given up on a PC puzzle. $4000+ on my build and defeated by a a couple $ in LED lights and bad software :huh:

 

Try explaining all that over a chat with a typical tech support person. :huh: I can only imagine some of the help tickets ED must deal with. I've been doing this for a while and like to solve puzzles. It's more than understandable that the typical Noob would get frustrated. If I didn't love the hobby and aviation so much I would probably end up playing Steam games with an Xbox controller.

 

All I can say is it's worth it. Even with the extra cost of good peripherals. Especially DCS since the release of 2.5, don't fly anything else anymore. It's still less maintenance than a Cessna. There's a guy a couple hours from here that rents out his tandem Spitfire. It will cost you more than my rig for a couple hours of flight time. So it's :joystick: for me.


Edited by Sn8ke_iis

SimRig: Winter '18/19

Asus Maximus XI Formula | Intel 9900K @ 5.4 GHz Single Core, 5.2 GHz All Core | Nvidia/EVGA 2080 Ti K|NGP|N @ 2200 MHz | EKWB Direct Die Custom Liquid Cooling Loop | Gskill 32 GB DDR4 @ 3600 MHz | Samsung 512 GB, 1 TB NVMe SSDs | Asus/Seasonic 1200w PSU

Samsung Q6FN 65" 4K | Realsim FSSB | TM Cougar HOTAS | Vipergear IPC | Buddyfox UFC | Saitek Trim Wheel | MFG Crosswinds Rudder Pedals | Playseat Flightseat | Monstertech HOTAS mount | Gametrix Jetseat

 

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I tossed Aura RGB to the bin, it's a frustration software and also a CPU hog.

 

One thing that might help, install as admin, and open as admin every time you work with it.

 

Since I have no SLI I cannot give you any hint on that.

 

 

Happy Sunday afternoons !

Asus Z370-E - 8700K@5G_delidded - 32GB - 1080GTX-Ti EK-waterblock - 1x 960Evo 250GB - 3x Samsung 850/860Pro 256GB Raid-0 - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 2x Seagate 2TB - 32GB PageFile - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@4x180mm fans - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win10Pro64 

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Sn8ke_iis

 

HI youre problem is one in thousands to which we are looking at and addressing,I HOP YOU DON MINE BUT I LL USE THIS AS EXAMPLE.

 

When my wife saw that I was showing some visible frustration because I just wanted to fly and not trouble shoot - I have very limited leisure time lately - I remarked that even if I called Geeksquad or some tech service I don't think they would even be able to help much unless they are a DCS fan.

 

Nvidia Inspector downloaded from the right link on Github...compatibility bits, power settings, drivers, ...Process Lasso, multiple background programs like TARGET, TrackIR, Geforce Experience, Discord, Teamspeak, Afterburner, etc...Registry edits for USB power settings...it never stops...And that's without even getting into BIOS and overclocking. Then, there's the calibration settings for my display that I would never have been able to learn myself except for rtings.com...if you want peak performance than you have to do a custom cooling loop...OSDs and fan tuning to keep up with temps...

 

A lot of my issues stem from keeping my panel on a cart and watching movies, etc. If it was dedicated to DCS I would not have to disconnect USB and HDMI ports which causes issues with TARGET and the native Samsung settings like Game Mode. Definitely not plug and play, you have to manually change a few settings and the panel tries to autodetect the graphics card but doesn't know what it is.

 

This is what WE/THAY do our department would have all at our disposal to tell you that you have a problem or if you have a problem you could email or phone if the problem cant be rectified you can send it back "send pc back to or fix the problem. yet again work in progress.


Edited by Bradader
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To all pc flyers

 

You can sit there and go oh this cant be done or that cant be done, Reminder this is a business to which depends return /new members if you go well this the best we can do then you will start to loose out on potential new customer's. If you don't strive to do better you wont grow if true I can only see that this is as far as DCS will ever go ok you might down the road fight dynamics to be exactly spot on but if people are spending there weekend`s chasing bug`s Weather it`s PC bound 3 party OR even your TV INTERNET you'll start losing costumers. For someone that is looking at your forums

and deciding weather to spend $500 -$8,000 on a PC & VR, and sees limited help well is it worth the time frustration, OK for the pro pc builders / repairers well there only so many of them, I would want the main stream of flight simmers to help the business grow not to be just for the select few who will sit there put up with the sad state pc gaming is at its at the moment 2019 not the 1980`S.

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Okay then, tell us how it *will* be done?

 

Your suggestion seems to be aimed at people who potentially have a lot of money to spend on the 'DCS-PC', but aren't themselves PC enthusiasts.

 

Have you considered how many customers there might be for this? I suspect the majority of people using DCS are either confident enough to put a PC together themselves or happy to buy one off the shelf.

 

As for the DCS-PC itself, who creates the specification - ED? Who decides what is acceptable performance? What VR hardware are we talking about - original Rift or Pimax 5k? What happens when new hardware comes out?

 

 

Entertaining as it is, the whole idea is a complete non-starter.

9900K | 32GB Corsair XMS | 3080FE | Reverb G2 | VPC MongoosT-50CM2 + TM Grips  | Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind Pedals

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