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On the Various FM Issues


CptSmiley
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@ CptSmiley.......This is excellent,I have for one,been mightily impressed,how after only a few days of release that RAZBAM have really pulled out the stops to please their customers...First Class RAZBAM.

 

This will give me great faith in purchasing future products from you,thank you very much for your customer care,it is without doubt outstanding.

 

Other developers within DCS would do well to benefit in taking your approach.

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Automated testing is awesome! It took me a weekend to plot DCS Su-27 turning capabilities :( Looking forward for stall and spin behavior :)

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Nice news, but…

Wasn't be possible to do that work during the past two years of development of this module ? sounds like it started just after release :blink:

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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Is obvious for me that the fully automated test case tool used wasnt ready before. So the quick tests that now are possible were not available during the development process, making fine adjustments very time consuming.

" You must think in russian.."

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

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I don't really understand how they tested their FM before ? This seems the only way to d

 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

To be fair, we're being shown the input and output states of the automated testing, not what the process entails. Building a framework like this is difficult, and if it appeared originally that the first layer effort was lining up nicely, it wouldn't be worth doing. Once they realized there were issues with the model predictions - probably around the time the original delay was announced - it was time to build something to perform more in-depth calculations based on more detailed inputs. This is all par for engineering numeric methods work based on my memory of it.

 

In short, you don't always know what you need to build until you need it.

 

I'm more impressed the team found enough documentation in the first place, as I cannot find hardly anything on the Mig-19 of any variant with which to compare.

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Once they realized there were issues with the model predictions

MEGALOL

Apparently, it didn't take that long for some forum users to notice the issues without such a tool.

Let's face it, Razbam lost too much time.

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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Notice an issue and solving that issue based on data obtained from a valid observation test are diferent things.

 

Maybe you can be more helpful next time apart from megalols comments

" You must think in russian.."

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´

 

Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4

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What are you trying to tell ? Is there a FM issue yes or not ? Did ED delay the beta release because of this issue yes or not ? Am I still waiting for the advertised completed module before buying it yes or not ?

Wait… I think that I have an answer for the last question :P

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed by the massive efforts to correct this module's flaws ASAP. And their new method rocks. But I'm still far to turn into a fanboy.

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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I'm more impressed the team found enough documentation in the first place, as I cannot find hardly anything on the Mig-19 of any variant with which to compare.

 

Bottom of first post (translated title): "MiG-19S. Technical description and flight characteristics. Book 1"

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178655

 

 

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It is nice to see, that basically all the reported FM issues are being addressed. :thumbup:

 

What might be a good idea for the future, like the MiG-23 coming next, is a closed beta stage!

With all the apparent complexity of the FM development aside, maybe what is needed sometimes is to have more people to fly it around a bit. If some of those people have real world flight experience (and training), that does also help. :)

 

Other than this, all real world aircraft have information in their flight manuals (as you can see it in the IRL MiG-19S manual) regarding dangerous flight characteristics like stalls and spins, and most importantly instructions to the pilot on how avoid them, and what procedure to follow once got caught in one of them.

This should be included in the DCS flight manuals as well! This is just as important as the non-normal procedures for engine fire and manual gear extension etc...


Edited by HWasp
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Hi all thanks for the feedback, it looks like many comments are asking about stuff mentioned in the title post. I would STRONGLY recommend you please take just a moment to read the title post.

 

A little progress report, 42 total performance test cases have been developed within the automated tool. I should be getting to performance tuning by the end of this week once I get a full picture from the automated tests.

 

I'm particularly excited about this tool as it allowed me to do currently 42 "test flights" in less than 30 seconds of trimming routines what would probably take days of manual test flying and processing of the data. This allows a quick change of FM behavior and can instantly see the effect across the full flight envelope.

 

Once the performance test cases are complete I'll post a current state report before making tuning so you all can see a before/after.

 

I've read the posts Smiley, but since you havent mentioned the lack of drag in level flight, throttles cut, I just want to make sure you're aware of this?

 

PS: Awesome with the testing tool, I have great hopes for this module :)


Edited by Hummingbird
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With the non existent drag of the 19 I personally find the landing easier than in MiG-29 in DCS right now.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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So the patch notes today mention fixing the thrust spike in the narrow 9,000-10,000 rpm band, but did the engine modeling being demonstrated in this thread get implemented with that, or is it a separate issue?

 

On a related now, it looks like great work so far on tuning engine thrust (whether or not it was implemented in this patch), but what about the slow flight and roll characteristics of the airplane? Are those to come after the engine tuning, or in parallel, or is anything decided there yet?

 

Thanks!

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So the patch notes today mention fixing the thrust spike in the narrow 9,000-10,000 rpm band, but did the engine modeling being demonstrated in this thread get implemented with that, or is it a separate issue?

 

On a related now, it looks like great work so far on tuning engine thrust (whether or not it was implemented in this patch), but what about the slow flight and roll characteristics of the airplane? Are those to come after the engine tuning, or in parallel, or is anything decided there yet?

 

Thanks!

 

The specific FM overhaul performance tuning due to the tests were not integrated in this patch yet, they are almost ready but in running the automated tests it uncovered the thrust spike so that was patched in for this update

"Witness mere F-14s taking off from adjacent flight decks, gracefully canting left and right, afterburners flaming, and there’s something that sweeps you away—or at least it does me. And no amount of knowledge of the potential abuses of carrier task forces can affect the depth of that feeling. It simply speaks to another part of me. It doesn’t want recriminations or politics. It just wants to fly.”

― Carl Sagan

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The specific FM overhaul performance tuning due to the tests were not integrated in this patch yet, they are almost ready but in running the automated tests it uncovered the thrust spike so that was patched in for this update

 

Cool, thanks for the update. Good luck!

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