MiG-35's new systems - OLS

[mcnab]

Summary statistic of the OLS

In air combat complex allows:

• detect not-afterburning target on the 45km range and more;

• identify this target on 8-10km range;

 

What?! That sucks.

[GGTharos]

Really? How far can you detect and ID targets with your eyes?

[Vekkinho]

This video demonstrates a system that will keep the MiG pilot aware of all threats and targets in a way never before done. AMRAAM's won't be able to touch this plane.

 

It's doubtful conclusion you've got there and I wouldn't be so sure. Perhaps it only gives Fulcrum pilots a chance to defeat AMRAAM, occasionaly.

 

Against which airframes? Iraqi and serbian outdated MiG-29A's with at best, mediocre trained pilots?

 

Serbia was able to scramble only 2 Fulcrum airframes on the first day of Allied Force. There were 100+ NATO planes they stood against! Many failures occured shortly after take-off, I know of one radar and Beryoza failure that left YuAF pilot blind in the skies. He managed to launch single R-60 before being shot down by Tornado. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Second aircraft was in pursuit after two ship Dutch Falcons flight over Bosnia on the same night, pilot obviousely flew NOE to get that far from Batajnica AB but was shot down too.

 

Third Fulcrum that was shot was assembled in Nis AB two weeks later, ground crew used all available grounded airframes to patch this one up but it didn't last long too, AFAIK. It was shot down, failures were present as well (of course).

 

Serbia (ex Yugoslavia) was under embargo for 8 years prior to Allied force (since 1991) but recieved it's first and only Fulcrums back in 1987. No spare parts for over 10 years to keep them airworthy. You get the point!

 

So make 'em hungry before you crush 'em is obvious tactic here, so let's not talk about pilot skills, aircraft performance and weapon efficiency anymore!

 

Every single one that stood their ground were shot down, and I'd like to remind you some occasions the teens were heavily outnumbered.

 

Heavily outnumbered?!!

 

Get real man!

 

Let me remind you in case you forgot that there was over 400 blue fighters available during Desert storm. Sometimes, especially during first days, more than 200 airborne constantly! The largest air campaign ever! Total air supremacy achieved in the first few days of Desert Storm! Hello?!! What in the hell are you talking about! Outnumbered my ass! Embargo tactic applied here as well.

 

Before few months some hawks pilots trained here against our pilots and as our pilots said - they were very dangerous and experienced with many and many hours in hawks.

 

I remember YuAF MiG-29 Gunso dogfight trainings against SOKO Galeb G-4 (Twin seater, airframe similar to BAe Hawk, Rolls Royce engine, used for transition training, google it for more data). Planes like that have very small turn radius and can out turn world's best fighters but also a poor T/W ratio so the way to do it is to keep the fight in vertical as long as you can.

[Vekkinho]

MiG-35, huh?! I woudn't be so worried!

 

How many of these birds will ever enter service?! What do you think?!

 

I'd say 5, ...used as testbeds!

 

There's only 2 active Su-34 in Russian VVS.

 

Got the point?!

[Force_Feedback]

Old video, you should visit this guy's site, that presents the whole deal, the one from which all the new info is leeched and posted here by some Polish memebers :P as in pilot.strizhi.info

 

 

The first part of the video was about the NIIPP bureau, that they were designing a laser comm system with a high bandwidth to communicate with the ISS. The reflectors designed by them are used on the Glonass, GPS and Gallileo sattelite systems.

 

Keep in mind that this is a completely new system, and the design bureau was explicitly asked for not having experience with aviation optical systems (only space based electronic systems). This resulted in a new system in a short time (a couple of years), partially due to some young engineers, not bound by all the constrains the older ones have. They competed with the makers of the original OLS system (so those lost, lol), which had lots of experience with such systems. The vice general constructor syays that the range has improved 2-3 times compared to the old system, and it has a tv channel. The IR system uses a more shorter wavelength than is commonly used in infrared systems (I remember them saying what those wavelengths were in the version I got, hmm, censorship, or my stoney brain?)

 

The head-on detection range against a Mig-29 head on is 15km, rear aspect 45km. The constructor says that air friction heat is sufficient to detect the target in the IR range (talks are about stealth planes, the programme shows the F-22...), but he immediately states after that the exhause plumes (not engine heat, the hot air coming out the back) allows for a very far detection range. He also says that if this, stealts, plane is coming in from the front, the system also sees the exhaust plumes, and the leading edges. 'The plane is warm' is the direct quote when he's talking about air friction.

All the transparent domes are made of saphire, to counteract 'sanding' caused by particles in the air (bugs :P).

And the designer says that the detection range of a Mig-29-like target is more than 45km in the rear hemisphere, and more than 15km in the front hemisphere. The rangefinder works at 15km max for aerial and more than 20km for ground targets.

The narrator says the system processes the images in real time, allowing a fast detection and classification. Detection of a non-afterburning target at a range of 45km and more. Identify the target type at 8-10km. For ground targets: range to spot a tank: up to 15km, aircraft carrier: 60-80km, identification of tank type: 8-10km, carrier: 40-60km.

 

The lower optical system can be used for cartography as well, besides identifying and ranging targets. The laser detectors on the wingtips have a slightly more than a complete hemispherical detection envelope, more than 180 degrees. It allows to detect, and determine the direction from which the laser radiation is eminating.

Then there is a missile launch warning system (optical as well), it works on 3 stages of missile flight: during the launch, when the start/booster engine is working, and when the missile is less than 5km away, it is seen because of a heated head. The launch detection range is over 50km.

The system also determines, at ranges of over 5km how much of a danger the incoming missile is.

 

The laser used in not based on pumped-lamps, it uses semicunductors for the generation (your dvd player has the same stuff, but it won't burn through paper sheets). Because of this the efficiency is significantly increased.

 

All the systems are networked together, and the system constantly monitors for threats and their threat level. The computing system is based on 3 processors 'similar to Pentium 4s'. The system processes the images and is able to select targets at great distances, with couds illuminated by the Sun in the background.

 

The information is transfered through glass fiber, with a 600 Mbit throughput (lol, my internet is 6 times slower than that of a Mig-35 :P), the fibre optic cables are very durable, and will work even if a tank drives over it. With this they've broken the convention that fibre optics were unreliable and not durable and sturdy enough for aircraft use. 'That all was quite a long time ago' he said before his sentence got cut.

 

Now they have digital guncameras with solid state memory. The pilot is also able to view the target that is seen by the optical system (opposed to blips). The pilot can select either a tv image, or a mixed tv-IR image from either of the two optical stations. The amount of mixing of IR-tv is selectable by the pilot. He can also select the image from 'a pod' (yaay, they plan to hang even more pods on that thing). The laser and missile warning systems only give coordinates.

 

All in all, a nice system, future systems will have improved recognition capability, it was said.

[Avimimus]

You realise that with FBW and OLS it should be possible to mount a second rearward firing GSH-301. Good for supressing sams and detering trail pursuit and the combined system (2 guns) would still be lighter than the M61...

[D-Scythe]

You realise that with FBW and OLS it should be possible to mount a second rearward firing GSH-301. Good for supressing sams and detering trail pursuit and the combined system (2 guns) would still be lighter than the M61...

 

Yeah right. Unless the missiles are approaching directly from 6 o'clock, or the MiG is severely penalized by the gun being mounted on a pivoting turret, the idea of a rearward-firing CIWS on a jet fighter is laughable.

[Mugatu]

So it probably doesn't work most of the time :)

 

This resulted in a new system in a short time (a couple of years), partially due to some young engineers, not bound by all the constrains the older ones have.

[Pilotasso]

Heavily outnumbered?!!

 

Get real man!

 

 

Your forgetting the Israeli Arab conflicts. Namely 1982 over bekaa where a hand full of F-16's and F-15's that had just been started to be delivered tackled 130+ migs leaving more than 80 flamming in the desert. It was also the combat debut of the mig-23. It did worse than the mig-21 (already obsolete by then).

[mcnab]

Namely 1982 over bekaa where a hand full of F-16's and F-15's that had just been started to be delivered tackled 130+ migs leaving more than 80 flamming in the desert.

 

Wow, that must have been one of the biggest aerial battles ever, even bigger then the Battle Of Britain.

[TekaTeka]

Check it out:

MiG-35's new systems - OLS (Part 1/2):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNzlzMp3kB0

MiG-35's new systems - OLS (Part 2/2):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZw3H5s6cqo

 

You can see high-rez version video and English translations here.

http://www.aviapedia.com/video/new-mig-35-ols-video

[Dudikoff]

It was also the combat debut of the mig-23. It did worse than the mig-21 (already obsolete by then).

 

It was an export version which was severely limited having the same radar and WCS as the MiG-21, useless in jamming environment, maybe even without RWR and flown with pilots of questionable training, outdated/improper Soviet tactics with no support/numbers/etc. which are expected for those tactics to work, etc..

 

Latest US fighters on the other side, not downgraded, flown by some of the best trained pilots and supported with good organization/tactics/jamming/intelligence. What was the point you were trying to make, again?

[SVK_Fox]

I would like to say only this:

wish you guys nice day ;)

[Silent Warrior]

In any case, cool beans on the EOS mk. II.

[Force_Feedback]

So it probably doesn't work most of the time :)

 

Are you kidding? It was made by a bureau which specialises in space based systems, and approached this OLS with the same operational requirements. I's more reliable than your average piece of avionics or other subsystems of the fighter.

 

It is well-known that devices on the unmanned space vehicles should meet two main requirements. The First one is reliability.

 

Viktor Shargorodsky, NII PP general designer: “If some device becomes unserviceable it means failure of all the mission, it is loss of really big money. It is cost of spacerocket, space unit, it’s unfullfilled obligations.”

 

Second requirement: devices should be built using hi-tech technologies. Besides, it should have maximal functionality, minimal weight, meet extremely wide requirements by the temperature and mechanical influence, and in addition - should work without any service for a long time.

 

Viktor Shargorodsky, NII PP general designer: “We get used to it. We always had to do really reliable high-tech devices. This what starting requirements were again.”

[Mugatu]

Ah I see, so it probably works some of the time then :) Just kidding. hehe

[Avimimus]

Yeah right. Unless the missiles are approaching directly from 6 o'clock, or the MiG is severely penalized by the gun being mounted on a pivoting turret, the idea of a rearward-firing CIWS on a jet fighter is laughable.

 

What you say is true. On the other hand mounting an uprated GSH-6-23 with 9,000rpm on a loose mount (to control dispersion) firing reward from a ~3,200 kmph bomber could potentially destroy an AAM.

 

Against fighters a pivoting turret would probably not be required. High dispersion rates would create an adequate kill zone and the fighters could be maneuvered by computer into a good firing position.

 

The aerial gun is almost dead, but not quite dead yet.

[Vekkinho]

Your forgetting the Israeli Arab conflicts. Namely 1982 over bekaa where a hand full of F-16's and F-15's that had just been started to be delivered tackled 130+ migs leaving more than 80 flamming in the desert. It was also the combat debut of the mig-23. It did worse than the mig-21 (already obsolete by then).

 

Aaah, yup, I see now. I thought you were talking about Destert Storm.

 

My mistake!

[TucksonSonny]

You can see high-rez version video and English translations here.

http://www.aviapedia.com/video/new-mig-35-ols-video

 

 

 

Thanks for the link (I must be over looked it)

[TucksonSonny]

Your forgetting the Israeli Arab conflicts. Namely 1982 over bekaa where a hand full of F-16's and F-15's that had just been started to be delivered tackled 130+ migs leaving more than 80 flamming in the desert. It was also the combat debut of the mig-23. It did worse than the mig-21 (already obsolete by then).

 

These were indeed Mig-21/23’s and in Moscow military men understood that they had to develop the Mig-29/Su-27 as a replacement.

[Shaman]

Damn, usually I don't react at all.. but oh well.. here it goes:

This thread went downhill on the first page so I didn't even bother to read the rest... and I thought I'll find some interesting information here. Well it is just like with half of threads that happen on these forums. Lame, very very lame. Leave your nationalism, my dick is bigger then yours, and piss off attitudes behind whenever you turn your PC on. Or get a life! Or a chick! Just quit doing this crap...

 

I wish we will never see a day when these aircrafts will prove themselves this way or another

 

You're comments here are not better then 90% of lame youtube comments I find under aviation videos.

 

IBTL

[Pilotasso]

whos pissed? :huh:

[Shaman]

Your forgetting the Israeli Arab conflicts. Namely 1982 over bekaa where a hand full of F-16's and F-15's that had just been started to be delivered tackled 130+ migs leaving more than 80 flamming in the desert. It was also the combat debut of the mig-23. It did worse than the mig-21 (already obsolete by then).

 

True, but you're forgetting lots of factors that helped Israelis achieve this victory. It was actually very complex operation that was planned years before first bullet was fired. Israelis shown an exceptional tactics and planning that were totally new to entire world. It never happened before and after. On my AD Academy it is used as basic example of modern use of airforce assets in effective manner. Pretty much Egyptians were cought with their pants down. They didn't study new possibilities as hard as Israelis. Knowledge is power.

[Pilotasso]

Actualy it was the syrians. The egyptians were involved in the 53, 67 and in the 73 wars, but they were out of the 82 war.

[Shaman]

Actualy it was the syrians. The egyptians were involved in the 53, 67 and in the 73 wars, but they were out of the 82 war.

 

Was talking about the '67 as you may already have guessed, and your post just provoked I should remind what was the most important factor in all these battles. IAF are one of the best in the world and have proven so several times after. And it is all down to planning and correct employment of pre-planned tactics. Attitude like "your plane is LOL, and mine is badass" was not a factor in any of these wars. These operations were not 1-1 PC game. Every enemy asset, doesn't matter how old and less superiour then own forces was treated very seriously.