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Rafel on American carrier


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I took this from the Tomcat Sunset forums and figured you would like it.

 

I know that this is the Tomcat Forum, but every once in awhile, something comes up that is really cool that doesn't have anything to do with the F-14. For some of you, that may be a bitter pill to swallow, but life does go on. Anyway, for those of you that just have the aviation bug and can appreciate news and photos of other jets, this is for you.

 

Seems that we recently had an unusual visitor onboard the USS Enterprise, in the form of a French flagged Mirage Rafale M. Our beloved Canoe Club posted the photos of the event at the following links:

 

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070723-N-0916O-118.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070723-N-6524M-004.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070723-N-6524M-003.jpg

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Rafale is one of the best looking airframes today IMHO.

 

I like the nose/intake joint curvature, it really looks great doesn't it?!

 

did he have to bring his own shoe to take off again?

 

It's probably NATO compatible.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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AFAIK the French bought the catapults from the US and only "tuned" them for their own purpose.

 

U got it. We bought the technology and some elements in the US (with one or two carriers, developping it ourselves doesn't worth it) but we need :

- 75m lenght catapults (90m for Nimitz class Carriers)

- to launch the SEMs, which don't have nosegear and are pulled by a cable (bit old fashionned but still working well). That explains the specific shoes on the PAN (CVN) Charles de Gaulle.

 

But I was thinking the Rafale could use the US shoes. Perhaps the navies didn't want to take the risk at the first attempt ?

FR and US Hawkeyes have allready cross-decked some times.

 

Anyway, cool pics, thanx for posting. :thumbup:

 

++

Az'

 

PS : Rafale. Please. :smartass:

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U got it. We bought the technology and some elements in the US (with one or two carriers, developping it ourselves doesn't worth it) but we need :

- 75m lenght catapults (90m for Nimitz class Carriers)

- to launch the SEMs, which don't have nosegear and are pulled by a cable (bit old fashionned but still working well). That explains the specific shoes on the PAN (CVN) Charles de Gaulle.

 

Thanks for the clarification Azrayen :)

 

But I was thinking the Rafale could use the US shoes. Perhaps the navies didn't want to take the risk at the first attempt ?

FR and US Hawkeyes have allready cross-decked some times.

 

Yeah that was my reasoning as well - if the catapult tech is similar and the same aircraft(Hawkeye) can be launched from both the French and US ships, then logic would have it that the launch shoe would be compatible for the fighters as well :) .

JJ

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U got it. We bought the technology and some elements in the US (with one or two carriers, developping it ourselves doesn't worth it) but we need :

- 75m lenght catapults (90m for Nimitz class Carriers)

- to launch the SEMs, which don't have nosegear and are pulled by a cable (bit old fashionned but still working well). That explains the specific shoes on the PAN (CVN) Charles de Gaulle.

 

But I was thinking the Rafale could use the US shoes. Perhaps the navies didn't want to take the risk at the first attempt ?

FR and US Hawkeyes have allready cross-decked some times.

 

Anyway, cool pics, thanx for posting. :thumbup:

 

++

Az'

 

PS : Rafale. Please. :smartass:

 

Gotcha. Nice shots. :thumbup:

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French jet on US carrier. World is really going to hell. :D

 

Not really :D

 

Both countries have always been allied since USA was created , despite twice having a clash in the 60's and upon the Iraq war , mainly because France has always wanted to remain totally independant from anyone in foreign policy , relations currently are quite good actually .

 

a real ally should tell you when he disagrees and will always stand by your side if you are really threatened , if the sovereignity of your country and people is under a real danger .

 

It's not new , some American military come in France for a part of their formation , just like all French Navy pilots go to complete part of their graduation in the US , especially in the carrier landing ops and the cooperation of the land forces (army) is also a reality since a long time .

 

 

 

This exercice of Rafale landing on USS Enterprise is mainly because both Airforce cooperate more and more , and France has its nuclear a/c carrier CDG that will be in maintenance for some months , and there is a real need of not stopping the training of French Navy pilots among other things .

 

 

Here is a video : http://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/base/mediatheque/videos/rafale_sur_uss_enterprise

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Ah man thats sweet....

 

About the launching mechanisms... ditto to what everyone else said. Also, if there were any compatibility problems it would be nothing for them to swap out some new parts on the catapult... A visit like this would be planned and well anticipated

 

Cool stuff...

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Thanks Colt for the link , here 's another one

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SAS73/2456/

:)

 

Rogue , that's the reason why France pulled out of Eurofighter project , we wanted a navalized and truly multi-role aircraft unlike our partners said they had no interest to do that , this was the main reason , had we made Typhoon (which is by the way using many similar things to the Rafale ) with the other partners , it would have costed us too much money and we'd have been obliged to get another aircraft navalized model like F-35 , which implies even more money spent .

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navalize the typhoon!

 

Ain't that easy. So far the MiG-29 and the Su-27 are the only planes initialy designed for ground service and later successfuly modified for naval ops. The Ks have totaly different airframes, so the Typhoon should also pass complete redesign to make it to the deck.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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One interesting thing I stumbled across:

 

Rafale = No Canards

Eurofighter = Canards

 

but

 

Su-33 = Canards

Su-27 = No Canards

 

 

So why's that? :huh:

 

I thought canards would help in low-speed, high-alpha maneuvers, e.g. carrier landings and takeoffs.

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One interesting thing I stumbled across:

 

Rafale = No Canards

Eurofighter = Canards

 

but

 

Su-33 = Canards

Su-27 = No Canards

 

 

So why's that? :huh:

 

I thought canards would help in low-speed, high-alpha maneuvers, e.g. carrier landings and takeoffs.

 

 

Well it's a long story, but to cut it off at the beginning . . . .

 

The Rafale DOES have canards ;)

 

rafale_05_001.jpg

 

 

Incidentally, one of the reasons for the French leaving the Eurofighter project in it's early stages was their different requirements for the aircraft . . . one of which was carrier capability. You'll notice that the other Eurofighter nations don't have carriers.

 

The Typhoon's canards are now placed in such a position that they'd seriously hurt visibility in carrier ops - bit of a problem.

 

And adapting it for carrier use would be expensive and semi-pointless. The F-35 can do the job perfectly well.

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In Rafale, they are closer to main delta wing. This way the airflow over the main wing is influenced by the canards. This can be used to gain more authority, more lift, etc., all very interesting at lower speeds/lower level flight. In Typhoon, the canards are truly a second set of mini-wings clearly seperated from the main delta. This is ideal for manoevrability and is used to give the Typhoon a inherently unstable design. The canards can act as giant levers provoking tremendous directional force.

 

Has to do with the fact that Typhoon was initially designed for air superiority whereas Rafale is for a large part a strike aircraft also. Rafale is maybe not as manoevrable as Typhoon (is this true?), and there are persistent rumours Typhoon isn't really good at low level (I think it is just rumours).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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and there are persistent rumours Typhoon isn't really good at low level (I think it is just rumours).

 

Please define "not really good".

 

I've seen the Eurofighter on Airshows doing some impressive Aerobatics including High-Alpha Pass, very tight circles and horizontal Kuban Eights.

 

So concerning manueverability it seems to perform at least "alright" (as a spectator ;))

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Like I said, it is just rumours. Of course, when it is meant it doesn't fly as stable as a tornado at very low level, this could be the case, but even then, I guess only marginally relevant. That it is a truly, truly superb aircraft is beyond any doubt.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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The Rafale is slightly behind the Typhoon in the aerial superiority role , as it was designed as an omni-role aircraft , Typhoon has more powerful engine and a radar that has more range and especially a better RCS for the moment and has been designed from the beggining for superiority in the air even though now they regret that it lacks in air-to-ground .

 

Rafale outperformed any aircraft in front of him in all real exercices , and it's still a magnificent and one of the very finest fighter currently and comparable to the Typhoon , because it has stealth elements as opposed to Typhoon , radar signature way harder to spot , and has a lot of EOS advanced sensors and a very good manoeuvrability in CAC , but especially almost twice the range loaded and some of the very best ECM currently .

 

Moreover the current generation Rafale F2 will be considerably updated in the next few years in missile (ie:Meteor , like Typhoon) but especially with Thales working on lastest avionic technology to implement in the next few years (powerful radar in BVR , not necessarily with big range but quality as the more you have radar range , the more the ennemy can spot you from even farther , actually , many Mirage of the French AdA limit their radar range on purpose in the majority of their operations .

 

I'd still probably prefer to have a couple Typhoon/F-35 because it offers more choice and flexibility for the mission (F-35 will be better for Air-to Ground , and Typhoon slightly better in air-to-air ) than having only one Rafale model to do everything , but it's considerably more expensive too , whereas with the Rafale to endorse all roles , you save money and get one of the 3 best performer of the next 20 years in most roles . Anyhow it's hard to compare now , because much of the important datas are classified or not known by us and both Rafale and EF-2000 will considerably evolve in avionics in the future , i'm happy for Europe that we can produce 2 fine planes, they will be complementary :)

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