What happened to one pixel rule?

[mortalkombat]

There once was a one pixel rule, which says if an aircraft is in certain range it will at least be displayed as one pixel, even when zoomed out. While playing today i noticed this is not the case anymore. When did that change and why?

[Aluminum Donkey]

They call them 'impostors' and they're kinda a classic 3D gameworld feature. If they aren't there, there's no way to tell what's going on at a distance, and turning them on/off should at least be an option.

 

 

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[mortalkombat]

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. The impostors were 1.5 and before. After they have been removed, planes when in a certain range to your arcraft would at least be shown as one (impostors where bigger than one) pure black pixel on your screen, no matter how much you changed your zoom (FOV). I have used this alot to spot planes (Zoom out to make the black pixel stand out more).

I was wondering why I got ambushed by planes well in my usual visual range, until i discovered that the black pixel has been removed (when zooming out now the pixel vanishes).

 

The only thing I changed to my dcs was using it with VR. After I discovered the missing of the black pixel I removed VR gear, reinstalled and reset my profile in order to fix it (which it didn't).

 

Haven't seen something regarding this feature in any of the Changelogs. Would be nice if a developer could clarify.

[Knock-Knock]

Dont know what you are, or arent seing, but I see the distant dots, the post effect dots, that single pixel thing, on all planes - and its not the label. The other day I was tracking a two-ship of F-16's at 9nm for example. Sure the dots were faint, but I could see them against the sky. At about half that distance I was tracking them against terrain, in low light (sun rise). This was on monitor. But goes for VR too. I have no problem tracking any plane at distance. Depends on the type/size though, how far away I can start seing the dots.

 

I mentioned that in another thread a few weeks ago too - different case.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3766562#post3766562

[mortalkombat]

Well not working for me then. I can see black dots but only when I zoom in. As soon as I zoom out the pixel is fading (proportional to the zoom level). This also applies to very close planes (about 5nm away), which prictically dissapear when fully zoomed out. As I said I used this method to spot planes, for which reason I can assuredly say things have changed (at least for me).

 

Would you mind posting your configs/options Knock-Knock?

[Knock-Knock]

There are no magic settings I think, since I run two different settings - one for monitor and one for VR, which are quite different in many regards.

 

On monitor my default FOV is 85 (or is it 80, cant remember now) degrees, thats where I detect at too. Zooming in only helps detecting the dots. Zoom out from that, I never see the need, so I dont, so couldnt tell if I loose them. VR zoom in, like with monitor, helps detecting the dot.

 

Doesnt make the dot appear sooner though, zooming in, just makes it easier to spot the faint fading in dot or dots.

[Knock-Knock]

Unless, having labels enabled to begin with makes a difference. I always have them enabled, but LSHIFT+F10 them off when Im loaded in. Cant toggle them on/off when they are disabled in menu.

 

I can try with them disabled in menu later today, and see if that makes a difference.

[mortalkombat]

Quick question: Are you using MSAA?

[Knock-Knock]

Yes, 2xMSAA in both cases. 1080p on monitor, and 1.0 PD in VR.

[Strikeeagle345]

I can see the dot with 2x MSAA and PD set to 1.3 in VR.

 

Can see fighters at about 15nm and larger aircraft (tankers) at about 25nm.

[mortalkombat]

Allright trying to explain my problem here. I also can see the dot. Thing that changed is that the dot now skales with FOV/Zoom (you name it), which is different than it used to be. If I would have measured the dot in size on my screen fully zoomed in it would have had the same size as fully zoomed out.

 

Now I can see the dot when zoomed in, but when I zoom out it fades (in size) and actually becomes smaller then one pixel to the point where it is not visible when fully zoomed out.

[Strikeeagle345]

Allright trying to explain my problem here. I also can see the dot. Thing that changed is that the dot now skales with FOV/Zoom (you name it), which is different than it used to be. If I would have measured the dot in size on my screen fully zoomed in it would have had the same size as fully zoomed out.

 

Now I can see the dot when zoomed in, but when I zoom out it fades (in size) and actually becomes smaller then one pixel to the point where it is not visible when fully zoomed out.

 

yeah, i don't have that issue, I still get the tiny dot zoomed out.

[wilbur81]

Sorry if I missed it, but are you playing at 4K resolution? The visibility at 4K is a real challenge if so... much harder to see than at 1080p. Can't speak for VR.

[mortalkombat]

Playing at 1080p. I might set up the computer newly.

[Mustang]

Disabling SSAA in DCS options after using it for so many months has been a real eye opener, cannot believe how much better it is to spot other aircraft (using 1080p with 4xMSAA now)

[Shadow KT]

With 4xMSAA, I couldn't see contacts, because the AA just blurs them , where as SSAA fakes a resolution increase to buff out the edges, I think I have had less of an issues with SSAA

[WilliamLink]

I'm adding +1 to the question. Back in time a few versions (let's say back in 2.5.0 to 2.5.1 I believe) You could spot an aircraft as a single black pixel as far as around 40 to 50 miles away, and you could also spot a smoke trail from a missile as well as contrails from high altitude airplanes almost that far, likely around 35 miles away.

 

I used to take advantage of that feature to practice my BVR engagements with the F-15C against SU-27s. I used to fly head on towards the hostile, lock it up in TWS around 50 to 60 miles out, wait for it to lock me on and shot his R-27ER at me, than I would crank either left or right about 45 degrees. This would put him roughly around the frontal frame of my F-15's canopy, and I could CLEARLY, visually track both the bandit and the missile (each one shown as a single black pixel).

 

At that time I was pretty sure the distance between us was around 30 to 40 miles (displayed on HUD, Radar Scope, etc). At that distance anyone could see that pixel on the screen if I pointed to it, so it was clear this feature was working up until that version.

 

Then when a certain version, which I can't remember exactly, came out and that feature was gone for good. I cloud repeat the same BVR engagement over and over again, but this time I couldn't spot neither the bandit or his missiles - not even the missile smoke trail - until it was within AIM-120's effective range (within 20 miles). Sadly you can't do it anymore. :(

[Strikeeagle345]

I'm adding +1 to the question. Back in time a few versions (let's say back in 2.5.0 to 2.5.1 I believe) You could spot an aircraft as a single black pixel as far as around 40 to 50 miles away, and you could also spot a smoke trail from a missile as well as contrails from high altitude airplanes almost that far, likely around 35 miles away.

 

I used to take advantage of that feature to practice my BVR engagements with the F-15C against SU-27s. I used to fly head on towards the hostile, lock it up in TWS around 50 to 60 miles out, wait for it to lock me on and shot his R-27ER at me, than I would crank either left or right about 45 degrees. This would put him roughly around the frontal frame of my F-15's canopy, and I could CLEARLY, visually track both the bandit and the missile (each one shown as a single black pixel).

 

At that time I was pretty sure the distance between us was around 30 to 40 miles (displayed on HUD, Radar Scope, etc). At that distance anyone could see that pixel on the screen if I pointed to it, so it was clear this feature was working up until that version.

 

Then when a certain version, which I can't remember exactly, came out and that feature was gone for good. I cloud repeat the same BVR engagement over and over again, but this time I couldn't spot neither the bandit or his missiles - not even the missile smoke trail - until it was within AIM-120's effective range (within 20 miles). Sadly you can't do it anymore. :(

 

 

Good luck spotting a fighter at 30-50 nm in the real world. BVR starts at around 15-20 nm depending on how big the air-frame is. The way it is now, seems fairly realistic. Also, you aren't going to see a smoke trail that far off either (at least I cant imagine you would, the trail is smaller thank the plane.

 

Use your radar, that is what it is for.

[Doum76]

You could always you the cheating mod to allow labels on to appear as 1 pixel only, without names. But again, servers you get on needs to allow labels on. I tried a while ago when i got my VR, and turned it off real quick, as i find a 1 pixel to appear anytime kinda cheating.

[GGTharos]

Large fighters are visible just inside 7-8nm head-on, and that's not a 'look around and you'll spot them' sort of thing, you have to know where to look. That figure is from a USAF study - but don't quote me on it, I don't have it handy right now.

 

 

 

Good luck spotting a fighter at 30-50 nm in the real world. BVR starts at around 15-20 nm depending on how big the air-frame is. The way it is now, seems fairly realistic. Also, you aren't going to see a smoke trail that far off either (at least I cant imagine you would, the trail is smaller thank the plane.

 

Use your radar, that is what it is for.

[BitMaster]

I have the benefit of living close to a large Nato Airbase and also next to a Training Area.

 

It depends a lot on the weather and humidity too, how far you can spot & track an airplane.

 

I'd say 5-7nm is about max I would agree to under optimal conditions. You may hear them going full AB but you still have to look and look even more to spot them.

 

On a clear cold night, it's a a lot easier to spot them, the worst might be a very hot and humid day.

[Strikeeagle345]

Large fighters are visible just inside 7-8nm head-on, and that's not a 'look around and you'll spot them' sort of thing, you have to know where to look. That figure is from a USAF study - but don't quote me on it, I don't have it handy right now.

 

was referring to in game, as you can see the little black dots out to about that far out.

[NineLine]

One thing to remember as well that saying you can spot something at 5-7nm or whatever is not in every condition or situation. And then maintaining about holding visual lock is another thing while flying. Looking away for even a few seconds can make it very easy to lose a contact when they manoeuvring and you are as well. I think its a learned skill in many cases, and even more so in a sim/game.

[GGTharos]

The studies specify conditions, naturally.

 

One thing to remember as well that saying you can spot something at 5-7nm or whatever is not in every condition or situation. And then maintaining about holding visual lock is another thing while flying. Looking away for even a few seconds can make it very easy to lose a contact when they manoeuvring and you are as well. I think its a learned skill in many cases, and even more so in a sim/game.