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Tacviews have been uploaded for this weekends SATAL.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_6d4rPUIeIQuz0obVCizrmUKLQGuZzMV?usp=sharing

 

A note from this weekend. The CNF UVAF from this weekend, 10122019, will be reflown due to extreme lag. The current date for that match is set for 11232019 @ 1700z.

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[quote=M0ltar;

 

A note from this weekend. The CNF UVAF from this weekend, 10122019, will be reflown due to extreme lag. The current date for that match is set for 11232019 @ 1700z.

 

Hi! You say will be refly with cnf. Why in shedule 0-2? They win? O_0

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Championship Tournament schedule has been posted and can be viewed on https://splashonegaming.com/satal/. The 6 top teams will advance from Diamond league and the top 4 from each group, a total of 12, in Gold league will advance. Top placing teams will be given a buy for round 1.

 

I have elected to push it back until January/February and give teams December off both due to the holiday season and so that they have time to prepare. The Tournament will kick off on January 11th and conclude February 1st. Teams will compete on Saturday, however Diamond league will be streamed Saturday and Gold League will be streamed using tracks on Sunday. There are too many matches to get everything streamed in 1 day hence why I decided to break it up. Another however though is that the finals for Gold League will take place on Saturday.

 

 

 

I realize this is a protracted schedule, but Ive tried to space things out so that teams are not waiting around and spending entire days flying. Good luck to everyone in the coming matches and the tournament. Its been an awesome year so far! Let's make the 2019 season one to remember.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

It has come to our attention that there has been some foul play at work inside the DCS World competitive scene. More specifically, it has been uncovered that select teams have been sharing pilots allowing them to compete for multiple virtual squadrons. This provides many benefits for individual pilots and for entire teams.

 

Though this rule is not explicitly stated in the rules, several teams have asked in the past if it would be possible for virtual pilots outside of their squadrons to fly with them in sanctioned matches. The response was always ‘no’ to their query - teams must only compete with members from their own virtual squadrons. Therefore, we feel that it should be no question that teams should consist of squadron members only and that those members, even if the squadron has more than 1 team in a given league or a team in each league, no be shared. They may only fly for 1 team. The only exception to this rule is if a Gold pilot wishes to fly for their squadrons Diamond team they may do so for up to, but not to exceed, 3 rounds.

 

The circumstance that has been uncovered clearly shows pilots being shared between at least 2 teams, both of which are in Diamond league. This violates the rules about pilot rostering, stated or otherwise, and because of that must be dealt with. The teams in question are inSKY and Chinese Festival.

 

On the date of November 23rd, during the matches of RVE vs inSKY and UVAF vs CNF, it was found that multiple pilots, using different usernames, but utilizing the same CUIDs, were flying in both the RVE vs inSKY match that took place at 1400 zulu and the UVAF vs CNF match that took place at 1700 zulu. We must also assume that this pilot sharing behavior existed before being identified during the as mentioned matches and is also taking place in and on teams that inSKY and CNF have in Gold league. Because of this, it is the decision of the DCS World Events Team that all teams associated with inSKY and Chinese Festival, Diamond inSKY and CNF as well as Gold league inSKY and BSW, be removed from this years SATAL competition and be banned from entering or competing in all DCS World Events events for at least 1 year from the completion of the SATAL 2019 season.

 

Since teams that were advancing to the end of the year tournament in both leagues have been removed, changes must be made to fill out the brackets. Therefore, 51st and IRIAF will be advancing in place of inSKY and CNF in Diamond league and JG78 and Dragon Squadron from Gold league.

 

We realize that some of you may view this punishment as harsh, but we want to make crystal clear that this type of behavior will not be tolerated in tournaments, leagues, ladders, or casual play whether ignorance, knowingly, or otherwise. We all play and partake in this wonderful sim, DCS World, for pleasure and recreation and we feel that allowing, tolerating, or even lightly punishing such negative behavior as showcased above promotes the idea that illicit activity or actions are okay.

 

This is in no way how we wanted to wish all of you a happy holiday, but we feel that it is something that needed to be addressed. Hope you all are able to stay safe in the month of December and get plenty of virtual or real world flying in. We will see you back in action for SATAL come January. Stay safe and see you all in the skies.

 

 

Moltar

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Just read it in S1G discord. Not much to say really, your post sums it all..

 

BTW can we have the standings updated and actually who will be flying with who in the quarters? If I get it right the couples are 3rd vs 6th and 4th vs 5th? Then the winner of the first couple meets the 2nd in the semis, the second couple the 1st?

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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Hi all

 

Please be mindful of our rules before posting we do not want any disputes here.

 

1.6 No multiplayer disputes on the ED forums, including inter-squad flamewars.

 

Thank you

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...decision of the DCS World Events Team that all teams associated with inSKY and Chinese Festival, Diamond inSKY and CNF as well as Gold league inSKY and BSW, be removed from this years SATAL competition and be banned from entering or competing in all DCS World Events events for at least 1 year from the completion of the SATAL 2019 season...

 

...We realize that some of you may view this punishment as harsh...

 

Brutally!

 

China have 1.3 billion people and no team now in DCS Competition.

 

- Did team leaders know about the alter names of their pilots?

- Did they knowingly allow this?

- Maybe some players simply cheated on their teams and were members of another team at the same time?

- Did all Chinese teams deserve such a brutal penalty?

- Maybe organizers can ban the controversial players only, cancel some matches and take away points, ...some penalty inside current competition but why all teams, all events and next year also?

 

 

I ask becasue all the people on those teams who still didn't deserve to be kicked out because of someone else. :cry:

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Shame that these people are supposed to represent China in the DCS community. You tarnish the name and reputation of your fellow contrymen, because, lets face it, in light of this there is going to be tremendous prejudice against Chinese nationals in DCS.

 

If i get shot down in DDCS or Blueflag now by a Chinese national, will i then think that he is using Cheat engine to give himself more fuel? More speed or missiles? Or even turning labels on locally?

 

Shame

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I wouldn't be putting a tag on a whole nation because several individuals have violated the rules of a game. I'd also suggest everyone to refrain of digging further into this case as nothing productive would come out anywhere on the net. The fault has been proven on the spot so lets move on.

 

From what I understand the ban in place affects those two teams only, not teams from China in general. As a participant I would welcome any other team from China that would respect the rules and play fair.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

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I think it is too hard penalty for these teams, because the official noticed "this rule is not explicitly stated in the rules" himself.

All we can do with logical is to reduce their spots. One spot for Diamond, and one for Gold. They chose the member with no share and re-checked by the official. That is fair.

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INSKY Team Official Statements of Notification

 

We noticed that SATAL organizerbanned all Chinese teams caused ‘teams must only compete with members from their own virtual squadrons’and ‘inSky shared pilots with CNF’. Our official reply as below:

 

Firstly, after check the ‘Rule’ which formulated and published by SATAL organizer (you can find in Page 1), we can confirm that there is NOT any rule stating explicitly that sharing pilots between 2 teams is unacceptable.

 

Secondly, quoted from MOltar, he said ‘Though this rule is NOT explicitly stated in the rules, several teams have asked in the past if it would be possible for virtual pilots outside of their squadrons to fly with them in sanctioned matches. The response was always ‘no’ to their query - teams must only compete with members from their own virtual squadrons. ’.

MOltar did not inform us for this NEW rule.Furthermore, as all formal tournament, ALL rule MUST be confirmed before the match started.

However,the SATAL organizer can change any rule they want in any time in any ways, it’s unacceptable and unreasonable for any kind of match.

And other team (UVAF) used other team member in SATAL game on 9th Nov 2019(team named ‘=DW=’,everyone can check the TACVIEW), but MOltar did NOT provide any further clarification about new rule or any presentation, the organizer just banned 4 Chinese teams. Apparently, it is double-standard and it is a kind of discrimination against 4 Chinese teams.

In addition, MOltar said ‘We must also ASSUME that this pilot sharing behavior existed before being identified during the as mentioned matches and is also taking place in and on teams that inSKY and CNF have in Gold league. ’. It means the MOltar banned any teams he want based on his personal assumption.

 

Thirdly, we try our best to respect and follow ALL rules which set and published by SATAL (You can find in Page 1), especially for the match time (Zulu time 1400Z). Most of time, we join the match in 11.00PM or 1.00AM forPeking time, and we tried our best to show marvellous matches to everyone who loves flight. However, the SATAL organizer did NOT respect Chinese teams including INSKY, CNF, and BSW. The organizer changed their ‘Rule’ without any formal statement, banned both team without any communication and they did not try to contact us even they changed the ‘Rule’ at the middle of the match.

 

Fourthly, as INSKY is a team of democracy, members from INSKY are allowed to join more than one team, and play matches as members of other squadrons using those IDs (if they have). They are free to participate events like training and tournaments using those IDs.

 

In summary, the truth is SATAL changed the ‘Rule’at the middle of the match without any formal statement, SATAL banned 4 Chinese teams without any communication.

After discussion with our teammates, we have to make the decision as below:

 

INSKY team very appreciates the organizer for organizing the SATAL match since 2018, it was a great honor to play with other teams, and all pilots whatever the nationalities are friendly and really good at flying, we want to learn the outstanding skills and make more friends who loving flying DCS.

 

Unfortunately, the SATAL organizer changed any rule in any time without any official statement, did NOT try to contact with other teams even they changed the rule, and banned the teams based on personal assumption. This shows no respect to ALL SATAL teams, which is unacceptable, unaccountable and inconceivable.


Edited by hx5791
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banned from SATAL

 

Honestly, BSW has no reason to cheat in the match to win.

We do know we have two pilots flying in more than one team.

We respect their choice to fly for other teams.

And we did not know this action is forbidden, as it was shown inexplicitly.

 

We hope this over-penalty can be reviewed over representations in Discord. Both BSW and inSky representations were not aware of this issue during the vote session.

 

Last, we welcome all teams to play friendly matches with us. Plz PM me if you are interested, or find me in TS:101.231.37.38

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Under "Rules" portion of the first post of the Satal 2019 forum you will find the following near the bottom of the list

 

"- Pilots flying in the Gold League are allowed to fly a limited number of rounds/matches in the Diamond League if they have a team present in both leagues. However, Gold League pilots are limited to 3 rounds total for the year of Diamond League play while still maintaining eligibility to continue participating in the Gold League. If I pilot flies anymore than 3 rounds, even partial, of Diamond League play, they will be deemed ineligible to continue flying in the Gold League and will have to finish out the season as strictly an Diamond League competitor."

 

And the very last rule on the list is

 

"Diamond League rostered pilots are not allowed to compete in the Gold League. Rosters will be checked throughout the year"

 

With the rules regarding playing in both gold and diamond league (even with in the squadron) it would seem prudent to ask if it is ok to do so. I personally am unfamiliar with any organized "sport" where playing for two teams in the same "season" is allowed. Even in youth leagues where everyone gets a trophy, you play for one team per "season" not as many as you'd like to play for.

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That the defense is; "There's no rules that states it's prohibited" just confirms the teams' knowledge of the infringements.

 

The fact of the matter is that several CORE rules are omitted in the rules section, as they're seen as so obvious. I don't see a specific rule against cheating, ram-hacking etc. Does that mean I'm good to cheat in SATAL?! It's a kindergarten-level argument. You KNEW this was wrong, so stop acting innocent / surprised.

 

It's fundamental that in a given sports tournament, a player is playing for ONE team. I'm sure CNF/InSky is aware of this and that otherwise one would have asked if it was legal to share pilots...

 

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Under "Rules" portion of the first post of the Satal 2019 forum you will find the following near the bottom of the list

 

"- Pilots flying in the Gold League are allowed to fly a limited number of rounds/matches in the Diamond League if they have a team present in both leagues. However, Gold League pilots are limited to 3 rounds total for the year of Diamond League play while still maintaining eligibility to continue participating in the Gold League. If I pilot flies anymore than 3 rounds, even partial, of Diamond League play, they will be deemed ineligible to continue flying in the Gold League and will have to finish out the season as strictly an Diamond League competitor."

 

And the very last rule on the list is

 

"Diamond League rostered pilots are not allowed to compete in the Gold League. Rosters will be checked throughout the year"

 

With the rules regarding playing in both gold and diamond league (even with in the squadron) it would seem prudent to ask if it is ok to do so. I personally am unfamiliar with any organized "sport" where playing for two teams in the same "season" is allowed. Even in youth leagues where everyone gets a trophy, you play for one team per "season" not as many as you'd like to play for.

 

inSky and CNF are not a team, they are all in the diamond group. InSky carefully checked the players' participation times. The members of the inSky gold group participated in the inSky diamond group. There were no more than three games. We have no players who violated the rules of SATAL.

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Now for the objective judgement, more information need to revealed. How many pilots shared and who is involved.

Also, we have to think about the effect for this world wide event.

World wide event without Asian is no more highest PvP world event.

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- Diamond League rostered pilots are not allowed to compete in the Gold League. Rosters will be checked throughout the year.

 

Not allowed. OK. But there is no clearly stated what will be sanctions/penalty. What if...??? And becasue of that we have this:

 

...Because of this, it is the decision of the DCS World Events Team that all teams associated with inSKY and Chinese Festival, Diamond inSKY and CNF as well as Gold league inSKY and BSW, be removed from this years SATAL competition and be banned from entering or competing in all DCS World Events events for at least 1 year from the completion of the SATAL 2019 season. ...

 

Moltar

 

Again, brutal... because no clear rules. There is a lot options for unfair sanctions as are in this case - becasue of two pilots (two man's) ~24 pilots are banned, 3 teams are banned (5 teams if we look on both leagues). This is not good for competition integrity. In season 2018 100KAIP TEAM was banned because of personal war between Breakshot and part of 51st members, SATAL organizers and current 64th. No reason for such things if we want to have serious competition as SATAL is. Organizers must stay away of personal feelings, politics and protect their integrity and competition integrity with CLEAR RULES.

 

...

 

Unfortunately, the SATAL organizer changed any rule in any time without any official statement, did NOT try to contact with other teams even they changed the rule, and banned the teams based on personal assumption. This shows no respect to ALL SATAL teams, which is unacceptable, unaccountable and inconceivable.

 

I have been pointing to this several times. Again, changing rules during tournament is not good if that changes coming from organizer only even there is Squad representatives - organizer must consult Squad representatives if there is need for any rules change to keep tournament integrity and show respect to all praticipants (teams).

 

...

We do know we have two pilots flying in more than one team.

We respect their choice to fly for other teams.

And we did not know this action is forbidden, as it was shown inexplicitly.

 

We hope this over-penalty can be reviewed over representations in Discord. Both BSW and inSky representations were not aware of this issue during the vote session...

 

Definitely, this is for squad representation council becasue:

- No clear rule from organizer but there is brutal decision for BAN

- BSW didn't know that this is not allowed (some people simple are not informed and are not 24/7 on ED forum)

- BSW stated that there are two pilots that are members of another team and play for BSW

- There are results from competition, points, rankings and everything is broken now because of organizer decision to ban 5 teams (2 Diamond + 3 Gold)

- Competition losing a lot if all Chinese teams are out.

 

 

... I don't see a specific rule against cheating, ram-hacking etc. Does that mean I'm good to cheat in SATAL?!...

 

Anyway... if i'm cheater, is there reason to ban 100KIAP and 51st teams immediately. Again, give us clear rules guys and protect all pilots with rules.

 

...It's fundamental that in a given sports tournament, a player is playing for ONE team. I'm sure CNF/InSky is aware of this and that otherwise one would have asked if it was legal to share pilots...

 

In football some players can belong to one team but play for another,this is called player lending but that is regulated by some rules / contracts. SATAL need it too or have rule to not allow that and also ready penalties for that if is not allowed or not in regular process.

 

inSky and CNF are not a team, they are all in the diamond group. InSky carefully checked the players' participation times. The members of the inSky gold group participated in the inSky diamond group. There were no more than three games. We have no players who violated the rules of SATAL.

 

One more reason for Squad representative council for revision DCSWE decision. One team said that there is no broken rule from their side and we need check that and give chance for fair judgement.

 

I agree that something is not regularly because of that player sharing but let's see and let's find best solution to save tournament integrity because there are some results, points, rankings and at the end almost ~24 pilots are banned from competition even they are not all guilty for this.

 

My suggestion is:

- Focus on that two pilots

- Check what games are problematic

- Let's make penalties for that games and pilots (teams)

- Let's make fair decision (again is not fair to BAN 5 teams if they are not all guilty)


Edited by Falcon_S

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Again, brutal... because no clear rules. There is a lot options for unfair sanctions as are in this case - becasue of two pilots (two man's) ~24 pilots are banned, 3 teams are banned (5 teams if we look on both leagues).

It's 4 teams; Insky x2, CNF and BSW.

 

In season 2018 100KAIP TEAM was banned because of personal war between Breakshot and part of 51st members, SATAL organizers and current 64th. No reason for such things if we want to have serious competition as SATAL is. Organizers must stay away of personal feelings, politics and protect their integrity and competition integrity with CLEAR RULES.

I don't like arguing over history, but your claim is so false that I must point it out.

 

100KIAP was never banned from SATAL 2018. Breakshot was banned after insulting SATAL moderator Teknetinium and it wasn't some 51st members, it was a decision backed by the whole squadron, even if we had prior discussions with different view points. KIAP withdrew in solidarity with Breakshot. Don't try to change what happened to suit the current discussion, as the situation was of a different nature.

 

Anyway... if i'm cheater, is there reason to ban 100KIAP and 51st teams immediately. Again, give us clear rules guys and protect all pilots with rules.

I would call for a ban IF the squadron was backing such behavior. In this case, it's clear that the squadrons have sanctioned this behavior.

 

In football some players can belong to one team but play for another,this is called player lending but that is regulated by some rules / contracts. SATAL need it too or have rule to not allow that and also ready penalties for that if is not allowed or not in regular process.

You don't see football players switching sides from match to match (in this case, literally back to back matches), there's clear agreements that a player will be lent for x amount of times and it's made public!

 

My suggestion is:

- Focus on that two pilots

- Check what games are problematic

- Let's make penalties for that games and pilots (teams)

- Let's make fair decision (again is not fair to BAN 5 teams if they are not all guilty)

The situation has clearly been sanctioned by the teams and it's been systematic.

 

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Some clarifications for pilot-sharing

 

I think friends from the DCS community need to look insight the Chinese DCS community as this storm affects us all.

 

Pilot sharing is common in China. I know it sounds weird to the DCS community but that is true. China DCS community had a time when pilots were not allowed to join events of other squadrons. What happened later was isolations between organizations which led them to an end, like 3GO and lkyfly. That's why we have developed this weird pilot-sharing system. It is not an excuse, I am just explaining why. Kind of cultural difference haha.

 

Chinese people did not and will not cheat in the match :smilewink: you have my word. The famous 405 and 801 suffered from package lost did not cheat knowingly.

 

Do NOT tag Chinese teams cheater @Cisco from RvE. If you don't trust the result, we can connect to your own server, or ours, for a re-match to make you feel safe.

 

Anyway, as SATAL is held by 64th, they have the right to make judgement based on their value and standard, even though the penalty is far too brutal.

 

DCS is such a great game, let's not ruin it just because people see things differently.

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100KIAP was never banned from SATAL 2018. Breakshot was banned after insulting SATAL moderator Teknetinium and it wasn't some 51st members, it was a decision backed by the whole squadron, even if we had prior discussions with different view points. KIAP withdrew in solidarity with Breakshot. Don't try to change what happened to suit the current discussion, as the situation was of a different nature.

 

If our lead is banned because of private problems with some PILOT (not SATAL MODERATOR in that private fight and not about SATAL) of course that it showing how some private/personal rules or reasons can to have influence on competition. Also in that time we (100KIAP) team are also warned that sanctions can be passed on to the entire team if BS not stop. So, we decide to not allow you to do this in the middle of competitions just because you can - we leave + solidarity with BS.

 

...

 

 

The situation has clearly been sanctioned by the teams and it's been systematic.

 

Good job.I see everything was taken care of. A nice future awaits you as organizers.


Edited by Falcon_S

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