reported AI/Wingman Fuel Consumption

[heroe]

some news? we need it.

[Dagobert666]

So, I have the problem whether F18, F14, F16. This is a general problem with Wingman AI. ED, I know you want to do it right, but PLEASE give and a work-around. Simply give the Wingmann unlimited fuel options. It must be possible to do something like this at short notice. After all, the GIANT problem has existed for years. The bug destroys the whole DCS single player experience.

[Taz1004]

I see that this was reported on January of 2019. After a year and a half....

[RaisedByWolves]

some news? we need it.

 

 

 

Two weeks.

[Novan]

The AI wingmen are trying to keep formation and will be burning more fuel to do that.

 

We had a similar issue with spitfire wingmen, as soon as I have any news I will pass it on to you all.

 

thanks you

 

 

I think the issue is that the wingmen keep getting out of formation with each waypoint turn and then go burn through AB to catch back up after they have flown an extra 10 miles and a dozen altitude changes to course correct and catch back up.

 

 

Wouldn't the quick fix be to have them cheat by basically copying the inputs of the lead plane once they were in formation until told to break, came under fire, were told to attack or there was damage preventing them from having the same perfomance or were about to hit something?

[metzger]

I think the issue is that the wingmen keep getting out of formation with each waypoint turn and then go burn through AB to catch back up after they have flown an extra 10 miles and a dozen altitude changes to course correct and catch back up.

 

 

Wouldn't the quick fix be to have them cheat by basically copying the inputs of the lead plane once they were in formation until told to break, came under fire, were told to attack or there was damage preventing them from having the same perfomance or were about to hit something?

 

+10000

 

No, copy your inputs is not a solution because if they are on the outside of the turn, they will get sucked behind.

 

There are many changes that AI needs to be able to fly proper formation:

 

1. When they rejoin, they should learn to use geometry and go lead pursuit when possible, now they only follow you in pure so whatever you do, they end up in trail and use burner(when available) to catch you. In addition they seem to have problems with that too, as they look more draggy or lack of power as they still struggle to catch you even if you fly very slow so it takes them forever and a lot of fuel. Try Sabre for example, it's terrible. And this basically happens after every small change of heading or formation change.

 

2. They need to learn TAC turns to keep the formation during turns. Otherwise 1. repeats every time you make a turn and they are not in close formation.

 

3. They need to learn to use altitude to gain speed and catch you to avoid 1. Additionally there seem to be a problem with their energy when they are your WM.

 

4. They need to learn proper techniques of changing formation e.g. slide under, go 5-10 digrees offset to open/close formation and so on. Otherwise 1. repeats after every formation change.

 

5. They need to learn the OHB for RTB. Right now landing with AI is a hassle and huge immersion brake, especially 4-ship.

 

I will stop here, as this is only for BASIC flying skills. Will not touch the combat and tactical part as my comment will become a novel.

[pschaps]

Have we really still not got a fix for this? Can you not just simply make a temporary fix in which the AI aircraft's fuel state is matched to the players regardless of what the AI is doing? At least then if we make it back to the airfield with fuel they will too.

 

Havent completed a SP mission yet where the AI hasn't run out fuel. Made it to the circuit the other day and the AI ejected on base whereas I landed with 4500 lbs!

 

We have all invested heavily (computers, peripherals, VR equipment as well as all the modules for DCS) into this sim, simple things like this should not even be in the bug list...

[bell_rj]

DESIGN SPECIFICATION (NOT ED MATERIAL - UNOFFICIAL COMMUNITY CONTRIBUTION)

 

 

Purpose:

A temporary fix to significantly improve gameplay immersion and mitigate a long standing player reported issue that affects gameplay in a very noticeable manner.

 

In Gameplay options add new option as follows:

 

Control type: [TICKBOX]

Control default state: OFF

Control label: AI aircraft have unlimited fuel

 

Description:

Enabling this option enables unlimited fuel for all AI aircraft.

 

Other options considered:

Enabling unlimited fuel for AI wingmen only.

- this option preferred if the implementation would be easier.

 

 

Licence terms:

 

The above is absolutely free for ED, partners and community modders to use, in perpetuity.

[Ourorborus]

I am not sure the problem lies in excessive fuel consumption. Formation aircraft generally burn more than lead in real life too. This is why fuel state reports are so important.

 

Excessive use of afterburner is a problem as it should not be needed to keep station.

 

What I see as the problem is that AI don't calculate BINGO correctly.

 

BINGO is the minimum fuel state needed to RTB/divert/reach destination safely. Thus if the wingman calls BINGO, he is telling me we need to RTB/divert now to avoid running out of fuel.

 

Many times have had my wingman call BINGO whilst RTB on best range profile and still eject prior to the airfield. This tells me the fault lies with the wingmans BINGO calculation, as he was clearly already below BINGO when we started to RTB, and was also clearly below BINGO when he called BINGO.

[FubarBundy]

I am not sure the problem lies in excessive fuel consumption. Formation aircraft generally burn more than lead in real life too. This is why fuel state reports are so important.

 

Excessive use of afterburner is a problem as it should not be needed to keep station.

 

What I see as the problem is that AI don't calculate BINGO correctly.

 

BINGO is the minimum fuel state needed to RTB/divert/reach destination safely. Thus if the wingman calls BINGO, he is telling me we need to RTB/divert now to avoid running out of fuel.

 

Many times have had my wingman call BINGO whilst RTB on best range profile and still eject prior to the airfield. This tells me the fault lies with the wingmans BINGO calculation, as he was clearly already below BINGO when we started to RTB, and was also clearly below BINGO when he called BINGO.

Not entirely sure that is the case because excessive fuel consumption would cause the same problem even if the BINGO call was correct.

(the amount of fuel which should be enough to make it home isn't because it is being burned too quickly)

I'm not even sure I'm making sense here tbh

[shalis]

Actually i don't think the AI is setting bingo at all, ergo them ejecting immediately after calling it.

 

 

To set Bingo you, the player, have to do it manually by selecting the option in the IEFI and setting the value that you want. Default is 0, and i'm pretty sure that is what the AI has it at.

 

 

 

I spent a few hundred dollars within a week of finding this game out about a month ago (and a few thousands on peripherals). Every day that passes i regret it more, and i'm not spending another dime until i actually see some commitment from ED towards supporting their products instead of nickle and dimming their community to death and flooding its store with barely functional modules and maps.

[MustangSally]

Any update on this? It's quite a severe issue, and breaks the immersion.

 

 

>> Please give us a Option for Unlimited Fuel for Player AI Wingman

 

 

This would work well as a temporary fix.

 

 

I wouldn't count on any AI improvement for quite some time. This thread goes back to Jan 2019...over 18mths ago.....really ED??????

[FubarBundy]

I wouldn't count on any AI improvement for quite some time. This thread goes back to Jan 2019...over 18mths ago.....really ED??????

Problem is way older than the thread and goes all the way back to the beginning. ED have been talking about revamping the AI recently and I really hope there is some substance to this.

 

I'm really looking forward to the dynamic campaign engine but with the AI in its current state, I can only see it falling flat on its face.

[Ourorborus]

Actually i don't think the AI is setting bingo at all, ergo them ejecting immediately after calling it.

 

 

To set Bingo you, the player, have to do it manually by selecting the option in the IEFI and setting the value that you want. Default is 0, and i'm pretty sure that is what the AI has it at.

 

 

My point exactly. They are not declaring BINGO they are declaring empty.

[enigma6584]

Tonight in a mission I was testing, I had just reached "Bingo" fuel myself and about 5 seconds later my AI wing-man called out Bingo fuel. I was just about to give him a radio command to "go to the tanker" which was about 25 miles away when he calls out "ejecting!"

 

Please ED, fix this.

[Dagobert666]

To make that clear. AI / Wingman Fuel Consum and the AI ​​/ Wingman BINGO settings are two different problems.

 

AI / Wingman Fuel Consum:

I still have the problem that in almost EVERY mission my wingman has completely consumed his fuel while I still have a little over half of my tank left.

The AI ​​just doesn't fly fuel-efficient enough. This is the case across all modules. F18, F16, F14 everywhere I have the problem.

 

>>> ED PLEASE FINALLY DOING SOMETHING AGAINST! FAST! IT HAS been 1.5 YEARS! Some quick FIX ..... SOMETHING! That destroys my entire immersoin. <<<

 

 

AI / Wingman BINGO settings: I think this is simply a line of CODE that is missing or misspelled in the modules. I don't think I have the problem with the F14. Mainly I only noticed the problem with the F18. The setting seems to be 0% or 1% fuel left. Which of course is ridiculous. That should be around 20%-30%.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Dagobert666

[Worg]

What should be added is quite simply a bingo for the AI ​​as for us.

Example: AI Bingo set to 3000, once it reaches 3000 the AI ​​tells us and we can react accordingly.

A radio option to request the remaining fuel from each winger when they want to be essential too. This will be provided with the improvement of AI, it is essential for a real hunter flight.

[Dagobert666]

@BIGNEWY, are you still reading the chat?

Are you so kind as to forward the "fuel query"? Or should we create a new thread for it?

 

 

@Worg

Right! That's a hell of a good idea!

 

-> A radio option to request the remaining fuel is absolutely necessary! But the AI / wingman should then please give the exact value. It should say something like this: "Here are two, I have 6310 units of fuel left."

 

-> Since the player and the wingman usually fly the same aircraft with almost the same loadout, the wingman could simply set his bingo to the same value as the player.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Dagobert666

[JoGary74]

Taking out that the AI may be using to much fuel i am more annoyed that he calls BINGO fuel then bails out a few seconds later. I suspect his BINGO is set to 0 fuel. Any one have this issue?

[bell_rj]

Yeah I've seen that a lot. You could well be correct!

[enigma6584]

What should be added is quite simply a bingo for the AI ​​as for us.

Example: AI Bingo set to 3000, once it reaches 3000 the AI ​​tells us and we can react accordingly.

A radio option to request the remaining fuel from each winger when they want to be essential too. This will be provided with the improvement of AI, it is essential for a real hunter flight.

 

Amen. I really wish ED would fix this. It has become almost impossible to play single player with any kind of AI wing-men attached to the flight.

[MustangSally]

Amen. I really wish ED would fix this. It has become almost impossible to play single player with any kind of AI wing-men attached to the flight.

 

 

..and as I said in another thread, don't hold your breath!

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all,

 

We will see this tweaked in a future patch, I can not say when yet, but it will be addressed.

 

thank you

[enigma6584]

Thank you BIGNEWY.

[SundownSix]

Still being affected by this, which is pretty frustrating.

 

Even a simple hack or workaround (infinite fuel or 1/3 fuel consumption for AI wingmen) until a more comprehensive solution can be made would make the game infinitely more playable.