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VEAO & Hawk discussion (please mind the forum rules)


FZG_Immel
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Yeah, you are right.

The whole reason for my conversation was that I don't understand that you and others supported the community by buying the bird and because of one black sheep in the herd stop every support (at least in your comments). If this would be done by everybody I'm not sure we would see a F-14. Not to tell that Kickstarter would not exist any longer.

 

But as you correctly said, thats my personal opinion... I wont punish the complete dev community because of one bad guy. But I can understand the frustration in these threads...

 

Ah, you didn't understand my original statement. I never said I won't buy any products at all. I bought the Hornet, I bought the SOH, I bought the F-14 (all from companies with solid backgrounds). But here's the thing. I used to buy all the aircraft that came out, used to. I don't do that any longer and without ED taking some responsibility for the transaction we had, there is no other course.

I will not punish developers. I simply won't support them until I know their product is tried and trued. I will not be gullible. Put out a solid product, it'll consider it.

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Its so entertaining seeing so many people show up just looking for some easy money by raising a pitch fork and say they deserve stuff because they paid. Grow up.

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

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I purchased it through Steam on 22 Nov 2018 - I have been rebuffed by both Steam and ED when applying for refund so I think ED need to clarify that the refund appears to only apply if purchased directly from their site after Oct 1st

All modules: past, present and future!:pilotfly::joystick:

 

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Now we know !!

 

" Although we (ED) offered to support their (VEAO) product, they declined making the files available to do so."

 

Don't worry Eagle Dynamics, we know what type of company/one man band they are and didn't expect them to do the decent thing. However, I believe VEAO didn't want you to see their files as it would have given the game away and that is how incompetent they have become. I also understand refunds are only available to the ones who recently bought VEAO's product, it's common sense why.. For those who bought it a long time ago, it's no loss to many of us I assure you because the product has been useless and broken throughout it's entire existence and unplayable. I have bought most modules and hardly play most of them just the L-39, Mig 15 and F86...I don't have time to learn them all and the L-39 was far superior to the Hawk and that is why it was redundant for me personally. This is a point in question, just because you buy a module, doesn't mean you are going to play with it all the time. No refund necessary even if there was one available, I never played with the Hawk so it's no loss to me.

 

Mizzy

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Ah, you didn't understand my original statement. I never said I won't buy any products at all. I bought the Hornet, I bought the SOH, I bought the F-14 (all from companies with solid backgrounds). But here's the thing. I used to buy all the aircraft that came out, used to. I don't do that any longer and without ED taking some responsibility for the transaction we had, there is no other course.

I will not punish developers. I simply won't support them until I know their product is tried and trued. I will not be gullible. Put out a solid product, it'll consider it.

 

Sorry, this was not exclusively in your direction. Some people said they don't buy EA any longer, some said they don't buy anything. My point was to give every dev one chance to show their skills. HB started with the Viggen from a bad split as you may know so the signs were not good at all. There are other devs (I own every module of them) which can't build rep because they take 3-4 years to build one module. As I said, maybe Im a dreamer but everybody gets at least one try in my world...

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Hi all,

 

I liked the Hawk for flying in VR, because the instruments were big and easy readable in VR.

I dont want to install two DCS installations on my SSD just because of the Hawk, because I need the space for other software.

I bought the Hawk before 1 ocktober so I understand that I will not get a refund, but I want to know why this plane will not work with the new DCS update anymore.

What is changed so much that it does not work anymore?

If it is the weaponsystem, ok then we still can fly it without that, but why it the rest not working like the cockpit instruments or the existing flight model?

Very disappointed with the situation wich is not ED fault.

So VEAO give ED the code or give me a refund.

 

Best regards Grippen7


Edited by Grippen7
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Its so entertaining seeing so many people show up just looking for some easy money by raising a pitch fork and say they deserve stuff because they paid. Grow up.

And we're all glad you have to put in your two cents because this doesnt apply to you. Mind your own business.

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Omg. You paid $15.99 3 years ago. Get over it. Tell me any other company that will give you a refund for something you bought 3 years ago. It costs that much to go to a movie nowadays and if you got 2 hours out of the Hawk then you got your entertainment. ED is being more than fair and it’s out of there hands on being able to support it. And now they have to support another version of their game so you might be able to still use it.

 

Listen dude. One might enjoy getting :helpsmilie: in the rear end. It's not up to me to decide what one should be happy or not with.

 

But it certainly not up to you to tell me what I should be happy about regarding my purchases.

 

and I still fail to see how ED is being fair with me in this case. I bought all of their modules and maps to support them, even those I don't fly after the try out (such as the yak52 or the HIP), but in this case they are doing NOTHING for me regarding my loss. A gesture (in term of bonus) would have been fair and appreciated.

 

I don't think they will support 2.5.3 with new addons. From my understanding they will offer 2.5.3 as it is not indefinitely. I doubt they will adapt it to new modules.


Edited by FZG_Immel

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+1

 

People complain about 16$ and demand refund for a product which was 3 years in use while paying hundreds and thousands of dollars for the flightsim gear. Looking at the sigs I see Warthogs, 1080TI Gpus, TrackIR, Cougars and sometimes even VR.

 

YGBSM :huh:

 

Again. Some might enjoy getting rear ended. Who am I to judge ?

 

Personally, I don't. As I said I don't care much about the plane, I care even less about the money...

 

What I care about is the way VEAO as a company screwed me, and what I also care about is ED, who I purchased this product from, not stepping up, and doing a gesture to show me, a full time customer and supporter, to show me I was not the only one getting :helpsmilie: ....

 

I care about principles...

 

But apparently in these days and ages, people don't even know what principles are anymore.

 

 

Your comments about what I own and my earned money I decide to spend, are totally out of place.


Edited by FZG_Immel

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Yeah, I'm kind of not surprised, but it's still a dick move.

 

@Grippen

Because as the core game code changes, it will sooner or later (possibly already) cease to work. VEAO WON'T fix it, and since they won't give ED the code they CAN'T fix it. As a result, it doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not, it WILL stop working sooner or later.

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The troll formerly known as Zhukov

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Yeah, you are right.

The whole reason for my conversation was that I don't understand that you and others supported the community by buying the bird and because of one black sheep in the herd stop every support (at least in your comments). If this would be done by everybody I'm not sure we would see a F-14. Not to tell that Kickstarter would not exist any longer.

 

But as you correctly said, thats my personal opinion... I wont punish the complete dev community because of one bad guy. Maybe I'm a hopeless dreamer. But I can understand the frustration in these threads...

 

If you read my previous posts you would have seen that I told Nineline specifically that nobody lost my confidence but those :helpsmilie: at VEAO.

 

I also said that what I didn't like was the lack of ED gesture towards their customers. It's not about the value. It's about being told, you got shafted. But there is nothing we can do/

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Its so entertaining seeing so many people show up just looking for some easy money by raising a pitch fork and say they deserve stuff because they paid. Grow up.

 

Not only you fail at reading but you also post some pretty bad stuff. Talk about growing up...

 

It's never been about the money. I couldn't care less about 15$.

 

It's about principles. A gesture from ED to all the people they sold the hawk would have been appreciated. Period.


Edited by FZG_Immel

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*shakes head at the whiney entitlement*

ED have already done more than they are obligated to by refunding people who got screwed at the last minute. ED only receives a portion of each purchase anyway, it is unrealistic, nay stupid, to expect refunds from THEM.

 

Also read your EULA, you aren't entitled to a cent, and expecting a reach around just because a specific module is being discontinued (although still available with caveats) is equally stupid.

 

You haven't lost access to the module, nor do you need two installs. Look up how to use the updater. If you aren't willing to make small steps to fly the module, then you aren't very interested in flying it, that's on YOU not anybody else. ED have made an effort within the boundaries of reasonableness, and have done MORE than required. That people are not receiving the level of ass kissing they desire is irrelevant. Stick to Walmart if you want no questions asked returns and 'customer is always right'.

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I'm not so mad I lost any money, but I am irritated that it went to those dishonest incompetent half wits at VEAO. I might have forgiven them if they had the integrity to come on here and apologise.

 

I can understand people being angry, but please don't take it out on ED just because the cowards responsible have run off. It's easy to say what ED could or should have done after the event. They've learnt from this and are doing their best to put things right as much as they feasibly can.

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*shakes head at the whiney entitlement*

ED have already done more than they are obligated to by refunding people who got screwed at the last minute. ED only receives a portion of each purchase anyway, it is unrealistic, nay stupid, to expect refunds from THEM.

 

Also read your EULA, you aren't entitled to a cent, and expecting a reach around just because a specific module is being discontinued (although still available with caveats) is equally stupid.

 

You haven't lost access to the module, nor do you need two installs. Look up how to use the updater. If you aren't willing to make small steps to fly the module, then you aren't very interested in flying it, that's on YOU not anybody else. ED have made an effort within the boundaries of reasonableness, and have done MORE than required. That people are not receiving the level of ass kissing they desire is irrelevant. Stick to Walmart if you want no questions asked returns and 'customer is always right'.

 

*shakes head at the poor reading skills..*

 

Never said I was entitled to anything.

 

Never said the law was on my side.

 

Never even said I wanted a refund.

 

Simply, there would have been a much better way to deal with good customers that got shafted partly because of how ED managed their third party partner.

 

This doesn't mean I will stop supporting ED or other 3rd parties. I said otherwise early in this thread.

 

I'm simply telling them this was not the best way to deal with us.


Edited by FZG_Immel

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Again. Some might enjoy rear ended. Who am I to judge ?

 

Personally, I don't. As I said I don't are much about the plane, I care even less about the money...

 

What I care about is the way VEAO as a company screw me, and what I also care is about ED, who I purchased this product from, not stepping up, and doing a gesture to show me, a full time customer and supporter, I was not the only one getting :helpsmilie: ....

 

I care about principles...

 

But apparently in these days and ages, people don't even know what principles are anymore.

 

 

Your comments about what I own and the money I decide to spend are totally out of place.

 

YCGFY

 

If you had took the time to read more than one of my comments you would know what I tried to tell you and the other guys but selective perception is a nice thing so I wont tell you where you can leave your abbrevation, maybe the mods do it :doh:


Edited by FSKRipper

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If you had took the time to read more than one of my comments you would know what I tried to tell you and the other guys but selective perception is a nice thing so I wont tell you where you can leave your abbrevation, maybe the mods do it :doh: M

 

I answered right after your first post. I didnt read others before.

 

If you go check my post you quoted you will see that I edited it way before you posted your answer. (7min before you posted this) because I had read your further interventions.

 

Your comment about how we decided to spend our money and what we expect out of it was yet totally out of place :music_whistling: and nothing you said afterward changes it.


Edited by FZG_Immel

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Wasn't referring to any specific person, the thread is many pages long already ;)

 

Fair enough.

 

Sorry dude!

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Your comment about how we decided to spend our money and what we expect out of it was yet totally out of place :music_whistling: and nothing you said afterward changes it.

 

Maybe, but during the years I came to the conclusion that the people complaining the most are the people who are taking the less pain (financially). It's like in real life, the people complaining the loudest about a ticket in Hamburg are not driving a Mitsubishi but a Ferrari. That does not excuse this whole story but I think everybody learned from it. What I wanted to say guys like you and me with enough money for expensive toys is:

 

What do you think to accomplish if the only not so big commercial military flightsim company refunds people for thousands of dollars (most of which are not dependant on that money) for a mistake from one of their contractors?

 

Yeah, wait two months more for the next Hornet feature because a coder was fired :thumbup: And let's guess who is complaining first about the slow progress...


Edited by FSKRipper

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*shakes head at the whiney entitlement*

ED have already done more than they are obligated to by refunding people who got screwed at the last minute. ED only receives a portion of each purchase anyway, it is unrealistic, nay stupid, to expect refunds from THEM.

 

Also read your EULA, you aren't entitled to a cent, and expecting a reach around just because a specific module is being discontinued (although still available with caveats) is equally stupid.

 

You haven't lost access to the module, nor do you need two installs. Look up how to use the updater. If you aren't willing to make small steps to fly the module, then you aren't very interested in flying it, that's on YOU not anybody else. ED have made an effort within the boundaries of reasonableness, and have done MORE than required. That people are not receiving the level of ass kissing they desire is irrelevant. Stick to Walmart if you want no questions asked returns and 'customer is always right'.

Guess you have never heard of looking out for your customers because ultimately they are the ones who put food on your plate. Not many people here are clamoring for money back; personally I could care less about the 20 bucks I spent 3 years ago. What I care about is the fact that others who have paid $15-30 bucks recently to get a refund or credit of a product that is in the exact same condition as ours was when we first bought it -OPEN BETA. Some of us dont have that luxury to have 2 separate installs of DCS just to have 1 playable aircraft. For me, thats an extra 155gb of space on an M.2 drive that is all but filled with the first install. How fair is that that others can get a refund when they have had it for 3 months (and flown it as much as most of us have in 3 years) over us who bought it in the same condition 3 years ago? Its not. It would have been appreciated had we received some sort of discount in the E-shop instead of the rest of us having to dedicate an entire fking hard drive to accommodate 1 POS aircraft. No, theres absolutely no reason whatsoever for none of us to be angry or upset. You can shove it so far as I care.

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The difference being, all that gear works as advertised and the money spent is warranted.

 

 

THIS! I think it's getting pretty obvious VEAO was made up of a bunch of amateurs who knew they didn't know what they were doing, but continued to milk their customers. Won't be the first time that people lied about their capabilities. Seen managers in medical lab who were hired because of good 'ol boy crap, and then couldn't even identify basic cells under a microscope. And it seems to be getting worse and worse in the World.

 

 

And besides, many of us are not rich. I play with a mid level desktop and an old RC controller. I have to use on / off switches for a fire button! :cry::megalol:

 

 

No way I can justify $500+ for a joystick. Though I'm getting desperate.


Edited by 3WA
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Maybe, but during the years I came to the conclusion that the people complaining the most are the people who are taking the less pain (financially). That does not excuse this whole story but I think everybody learned from it. What I wanted to say guys like you and me with enough money for expensive toys is:

 

What do you think to accomplish if the only not so big commercial military flightsim company refunds people for thousands of dollars (most of which are not dependant on that money) for a mistake from one of their contractors?

 

Yeah, wait two months more for the next Hornet feature because a coder was fired :thumbup: And let's guess who is complaining first about the slow progress...

 

First of all you won't find me complaining about any slow updates in the forum. Sometimes I complain about my tomcat not being released, but that different. You know I've been waiting all my life for that thing :D

 

I didn't expect them to refund me anything. But I thought that telling people who bought it before October 2018 'sorry guys, you are on your own' was less than optimal.

 

 

Telling us 'it's not really our fault but we feel for your loss, so we are giving you a 10$ bonus' would have made everybody happy, and shown ED in a superb light..

 

On top of that, it would have costed them nothing, because as for now, I have 30$ bonus in my account and I am totally unable to spend them, because I always buy in early access (hence no bonus applicable when discounted). And I bet that most dev supporters are in my case.

 

Anyway. No hard feelings. As soon as I saw your other posts I edited mine, and I am sorry you had to see the first version of it. I admit, at the time I was a bit pissed at your first answer :D

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