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Raptorx7
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I hate to join in on negativity but at considering where the Harrier is at right now and how long it has been since its initial early access release, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that this module is in pretty rough shape to say the least. At this point, it lacks a lot of functionality and even has some pretty serious issues with core systems that directly relate to its intended mission. Out of all the DCS modules that I own, this one is probably the "hanger queen" because I have been waiting just about a year to build a realistic mission for it but as of right now, I can't because the functionality simply is not there.

 

I know you folks are swamped with work and I appreciate that this kind of thing takes a lot of resources and time. That being said, perhaps it might be a good idea (at least from the perspective of a customer) to issue a sort of long-form "statement" about the Harrier. Have the developers really talk about where it is right now and what it will really look like when it is done. If there is a problem with getting the required information or if there are parts that simply won't be implemented, we are at a point where it would be good to know so we can adjust our expectations accordingly.

 

Again, I understand that things are hectic and that you don't have a ton of folks to throw at any one module but the Harrier is in very rough shape and some direct communication about that might help us know what to expect and how to approach the wait going forward.

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Yeah, I'll chime in here. I thinking fixing/adding functionality should be the #1 priority rather than a re-texture. Yes the re-tex is nice. But a functioning DMT capable of actually tracking targets like it does IRL is a pretty major function. I'm sure there are several other examples of missing functionality (bombing modes?).

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It looks like Harrier module is becoming posting rights suspended hotline. I hope devs and managers do empathize why these happen and take other preventative actions other than muting people in the behind scenes.

 

Why should the forum rules not apply for specifically the Harrier sub-forum?

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If your criticism is constructive, mature and courteous manner you dont have nothing to fear.

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It looks like Harrier module is becoming posting rights suspended hotline. I hope devs and managers do empathize why these happen and take other preventative actions other than muting people in the behind scenes.

 

I saw the posts before the delete. They were pretty out of line. We all want the harrier fixed. Looks like dude has been a member here for a few nonths and is pissed its not fixed yet. And concluded it wont be.

 

Frankly the lack of Dev communications is pretty bad relative to other developers. Its been like 2 weeks since and update was promised and it could be in the next 3 months we plan on fixing A B C.


Edited by Harlikwin

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Frankly the lack of Dev communications is pretty bad relative to other developers. Its been like 2 weeks since and update was promised and it could be in the next 3 months we plan on fixing A B C.

 

People have forgotten - or have not been around yet - that, as far as DCS is concerned RAZBAM pretty much invented Constant Consumer Interaction. Both, Zeus as well as Cpt Smiley did post very frequently until at one point they went totally silent.

 

Reading some of the posts here and on Reddit I really can´t blame them and I for one rather have them coding away than posting here.

 

If people are so upset with the progress of a certain module, why not just use a different one for some time? I dare say that 90+ % have more than one to choose from.

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People have forgotten - or have not been around yet - that, as far as DCS is concerned RAZBAM pretty much invented Constant Consumer Interaction. Both, Zeus as well as Cpt Smiley did post very frequently until at one point they went totally silent.

 

Reading some of the posts here and on Reddit I really can´t blame them and I for one rather have them coding away than posting here.

 

If people are so upset with the progress of a certain module, why not just use a different one for some time? I dare say that 90+ % have more than one to choose from.

 

 

That is what many of us have already been doing for almost a year now. I have had the Harrier collecting virtual dust in my simulated hanger for quite a long time while I wait for it to get the functionality it needs to be used in realistic missions. I am not advocating that RAZBAM put a ton of time into talking directly to the community but at this point, a good, detailed post about where the Harrier is, where it is going to be, and what we should reasonably expect is not really all that extreme a request.

 

Sure, I have other modules I can fly but I did buy the Harrier with the intent to use it in realistic missions. It has been a year and I still can't really do that. I know this stuff is super demanding and I know that some in the community can take things too far but let's not forget that we did pay for a module and many of us have been waiting patiently for quite some time.

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That is what many of us have already been doing for almost a year now. I have had the Harrier collecting virtual dust in my simulated hanger for quite a long time while I wait for it to get the functionality it needs to be used in realistic missions. I am not advocating that RAZBAM put a ton of time into talking directly to the community but at this point, a good, detailed post about where the Harrier is, where it is going to be, and what we should reasonably expect is not really all that extreme a request.

 

 

 

Sure, I have other modules I can fly but I did buy the Harrier with the intent to use it in realistic missions. It has been a year and I still can't really do that. I know this stuff is super demanding and I know that some in the community can take things too far but let's not forget that we did pay for a module and many of us have been waiting patiently for quite some time.

They already have, go looking for it. It's going to be the top priority after the Mirage gets it's attention.

 

Also I've seen you say this a couple times, that you CAN'T use it in realistic missions. Quite frankly, you're full of it. I do it ALL THE TIME. What you mean is there are features you want and don't have. None of that stops you from flying the aircraft "realistically" you can manually track moving targets with the TPOD, you can actually fly a good profile and use both auto and ccip. You can do everything. You're choosing not to practice and be proficient with what you have.

 

Yes, the module is not complete. We all know that. It will be, at some point. Maybe it maybe not in how fast you'd like. But the theatrics are seriously getting old around this forum. Go spend some time training and less time complaining and you might actually be good enough to fly your missions.

 

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They already have, go looking for it. It's going to be the top priority after the Mirage gets it's attention.

 

Also I've seen you say this a couple times, that you CAN'T use it in realistic missions. Quite frankly, you're full of it. I do it ALL THE TIME. What you mean is there are features you want and don't have. None of that stops you from flying the aircraft "realistically" you can manually track moving targets with the TPOD, you can actually fly a good profile and use both auto and ccip. You can do everything. You're choosing not to practice and be proficient with what you have.

 

Yes, the module is not complete. We all know that. It will be, at some point. Maybe it maybe not in how fast you'd like. But the theatrics are seriously getting old around this forum. Go spend some time training and less time complaining and you might actually be good enough to fly your missions.

 

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Yes you can't use it how a real life Harrier pilot uses it. This is enough to make it not realistic. Yes you might like to play it casually but don't try to enforce your casual ideas to other hardcore guys.

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Yes you can't use it how a real life Harrier pilot uses it. This is enough to make it not realistic. Yes you might like to play it casually but don't try to enforce your casual ideas to other hardcore guys.
See that's the thing, I'm not a casual simmer. Not even a little bit. I can garuntee you, I am more "hardcore" than you think you are.

 

Fact: the module is incomplete. Therefore, you will not be able to use it according to the real life manuals and TTPs. End of story, wait for it to be released.

 

So you're argument is already finished. But let me continue.

 

Opinion: you don't need the module to be complete to fly the module in a realistic manner.

 

Fact: you don't need point track to track a moving vehicle.

 

You can so do quite handily with enough practice. Track a moving tank at 30 knots and hit it with GBU-12s and AGM-65Es.

 

Fact: flying good profiles renders the CCIP and Auto bombing mode missing features irrelevant (most of the time)

 

There are a couple profiles in which you are too high to keep the Target in your HUD, but the vast majority of them, if flown correctly, and by doctrine, means you will not need the CCIP to Auto conversion, and Auto mode works, line still sways. But that's for fine correction.

 

Fact: good scans should inhibit you from flying without a LAW

 

Radar altimeters break all the time. And when they do, you should have been scanning anyway.

 

Guestimation: you haven't been to Naval Flight School, or were a winged Naval Aviator?

 

I'm assuming you weren't. If you were, I'll happily stand corrected. But I was. And I know how, and why Marine Aviators do things, and how Marine Aviators deal with things that are broken.

 

 

Referencing my earlier point. The module is not finished. This is a fact. So, you can work with what you have, and fly it realistically based on what you have, or not. The matter of fact is you are flying a simulation of the real thing. It's never going to be 100% accurate. Never. It'll be pretty good, at best. You're missing a lot of the training and knowledge to fly this jet like the real pilots do. And you're missing a lot of the battle space to fly it realistically as well.

 

If you want to be upset it's not finished, have at it. Not my cup of tea, but do you. But whining because you (and I know it wasn't you, personally) can't fly a mission in it, is really on you.

 

If you want to be part of beta, find a bug, test it, report it.

 

Really want to embrace the ethos of what it means to be a US Marine? Accept the 80% solution, adapt and overcome. Do more with less, and accomplish your mission. Whatever that may be.

 

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So you went from this

 

They already have, go looking for it. It's going to be the top priority after the Mirage gets it's attention.

 

Also I've seen you say this a couple times, that you CAN'T use it in realistic missions. Quite frankly, you're full of it. I do it ALL THE TIME. What you mean is there are features you want and don't have. None of that stops you from flying the aircraft "realistically" you can manually track moving targets with the TPOD, you can actually fly a good profile and use both auto and ccip. You can do everything. You're choosing not to practice and be proficient with what you have.

 

Yes, the module is not complete. We all know that. It will be, at some point. Maybe it maybe not in how fast you'd like. But the theatrics are seriously getting old around this forum. Go spend some time training and less time complaining and you might actually be good enough to fly your missions.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

to this

 

See that's the thing, I'm not a casual simmer. Not even a little bit. I can garuntee you, I am more "hardcore" than you think you are.

 

Fact: the module is incomplete. Therefore, you will not be able to use it according to the real life manuals and TTPs. End of story, wait for it to be released.

 

So you're argument is already finished. But let me continue.

 

Opinion: you don't need the module to be complete to fly the module in a realistic manner.

 

Fact: you don't need point track to track a moving vehicle.

 

You can so do quite handily with enough practice. Track a moving tank at 30 knots and hit it with GBU-12s and AGM-65Es.

 

Fact: flying good profiles renders the CCIP and Auto bombing mode missing features irrelevant (most of the time)

 

There are a couple profiles in which you are too high to keep the Target in your HUD, but the vast majority of them, if flown correctly, and by doctrine, means you will not need the CCIP to Auto conversion, and Auto mode works, line still sways. But that's for fine correction.

 

Fact: good scans should inhibit you from flying without a LAW

 

Radar altimeters break all the time. And when they do, you should have been scanning anyway.

 

Guestimation: you haven't been to Naval Flight School, or were a winged Naval Aviator?

 

I'm assuming you weren't. If you were, I'll happily stand corrected. But I was. And I know how, and why Marine Aviators do things, and how Marine Aviators deal with things that are broken.

 

 

Referencing my earlier point. The module is not finished. This is a fact. So, you can work with what you have, and fly it realistically based on what you have, or not. The matter of fact is you are flying a simulation of the real thing. It's never going to be 100% accurate. Never. It'll be pretty good, at best. You're missing a lot of the training and knowledge to fly this jet like the real pilots do. And you're missing a lot of the battle space to fly it realistically as well.

 

If you want to be upset it's not finished, have at it. Not my cup of tea, but do you. But whining because you (and I know it wasn't you, personally) can't fly a mission in it, is really on you.

 

If you want to be part of beta, find a bug, test it, report it.

 

Really want to embrace the ethos of what it means to be a US Marine? Accept the 80% solution, adapt and overcome. Do more with less, and accomplish your mission. Whatever that may be.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

Tell me why engineers made AN/AAQ-28(V) in a way that it can follow moving contrasts. According to you there is definite no need for it. Tell me why AV-8B N/A has CCIP to AUTO if its irrelevant. Just because you can bomb stuff without need of submodes doesn't make it realistic. What do you mean by adapt and overcome? Armed forces see a need and they request it from the engineers. This is military equipment they are designed according to what armed forces want. You are clearly not using the equipment in a realistic way, contradicting with yourself and trying to deny others with fallacy.

 

I believe you can write better answers without going for ad hominem.

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I think both of you can have a polite conversation using PM instead using this thread about what is done and what to be done about the Harrier.

 

Users of this forums would be very pleased.


Edited by Esac_mirmidon

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My issue is simple key bindings, simple lines of lua code, that should have been done in early access or beta, are still not coded.

 

eg: how does somebody code and oxygen off key binding but not an oxygen on key binding?

 

The oxygen on is needed at start up the oxygen off isn't!

WHY WHY WHY?

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That is what many of us have already been doing for almost a year now. I have had the Harrier collecting virtual dust in my simulated hanger for quite a long time while I wait for it to get the functionality it needs to be used in realistic missions. I am not advocating that RAZBAM put a ton of time into talking directly to the community but at this point, a good, detailed post about where the Harrier is, where it is going to be, and what we should reasonably expect is not really all that extreme a request.

 

Sure, I have other modules I can fly but I did buy the Harrier with the intent to use it in realistic missions. It has been a year and I still can't really do that. I know this stuff is super demanding and I know that some in the community can take things too far but let's not forget that we did pay for a module and many of us have been waiting patiently for quite some time.

 

I'm a relatively newer DCSer, and I've only had the module a few months. But relative to the F18 which I also own, which is actively being worked on I'm fairly dissapointed in the lack of updates, or even a timeline of when things are roughly expected to get fixed. The further thing is that seemingly RAZBAM is focused on more trivial things like a re-texture or a pilot body. I'd much rather have the DMT/weapons all functional before any of that eye-candy.

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I think both of you can have a polite conversation using PM instead using this thread about what is done and what to be done about the Harrier.

 

Users of this forums would be very pleased.

 

Actually I'm finding it educational. Maybe the community can put together a list of things that are missing/broken if Razbam won't. Its also frustrating from my standpoint because I'm not always sure what functionality should be there in the first place.

 

My current understanding is that some of the major issues include:

 

ARBS is missing some of the proper bombing symbology/functionality.

DMT, should be able to track moving targets (I've never been able to hit/lock anything moving with IR mavs)

Tpod issues? (Don't use it myself at this point)

ECM, non functional AFAIK.

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As discussed many many many times the Harrier and mirage are both having an overhaul which will be done by the coders and the texture artists.

 

The texture team are NOT coders and will be updating the model textures separate from our coders, unless your wish the texture artists to stop all work and spend the next 3 years learning code which im Guessing not ;)

 

So please cut the team some slack, we ARE working on the Harrier and mirage as mentioned, the coders are working on Harrier and mirage right now.

 

 

In regards to the list of missing features and improvements, I am working on this list and will share when I am ready so please be Patient.

 

I'm not going to rush it, I would rather do it correctly.


Edited by =DECOY=


 

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As discussed many many many times the Harrier and mirage are both having an overhaul which will be done by the coders and the texture artists.

 

The texture team are NOT coders and will be updating the model textures separate from our coders, unless your wish the texture artists to stop all work and spend the next 3 years learning code which im Guessing not ;)

 

So please cut the team some slack, we ARE working on the Harrier and mirage as mentioned, the coders are working on Harrier and mirage right now.

 

 

In regards to the list of missing features and improvements, I am working on this list and will share when I am ready so please be Patient.

 

I'm not going to rush it, I would rather do it correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Decoy sorry if this is stated in somewhere else what happened to monthly update videos?

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Decoy sorry if this is stated in somewhere else what happened to monthly update videos?
The next one will be out at the weekend ;)

 

I was off over the holidays so couldn't make one.

 

 

 

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That is good news that the Razbam monthly update video will be out this weekend. And also good to hear that a list of missing features and improvements for the Harrier will be explained officially by Razbam in the not too distant future. I for one want an idea of when my Harrier will come out of early access and be feature complete along with a proper flight manual. I really hope that this will be complete by middle of 2019.

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Nice, my comment was deleted. I will reformulate if it came out as "abusive" or "insulting".

 

 

 

As discussed many many many times the Harrier and mirage are both having an overhaul which will be done by the coders and the texture artists.

 

The texture team are NOT coders and will be updating the model textures separate from our coders, unless your wish the texture artists to stop all work and spend the next 3 years learning code which im Guessing not ;)

 

So please cut the team some slack, we ARE working on the Harrier and mirage as mentioned, the coders are working on Harrier and mirage right now.

 

 

In regards to the list of missing features and improvements, I am working on this list and will share when I am ready so please be Patient.

 

I'm not going to rush it, I would rather do it correctly.

 

 

It would be a good idea to actually provide proof of that (coders actively working on the Harrier), because unfortunately it is what it is, there hasn't been any substantial feature release or bug fixes for the Harrier in 6 months (last substantial patch was in August 2018 ). Even some features shown in Facebook videos in July aren't implemented in the current version (Quicksteer Function using the WP Increment HOTAS button).

 

 

 

I know programming sometimes produce no tangible results for a while, therefore what I think would be a good proof and help people regain trust (as, lets been honest, there is kind of a trust issues lately) is a picture of some metrics from your code repos, i.e. number of commits over time or number of code lines added/modified over time.

 

 

I think this would be a really reassuring move on Razbam part and could benefit this community.

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I'd be really curious as to what RAZBAM's plans are around to implementing a realistic version of the various dumb bombing system modes on the NA (one of the key features was all weather night attack capability) as near as I can tell we basically have some incomplete placeholders for some of the dumb bombing modes at the moment based on what folks are pulling out of the tac manual, no way to enter target alt, wind speeds and so forth, no waypoint/ins bombing, ability to create new bomb points etc. Are those features that will be implemented? It may be worth the effort as it was also used on the A4.


Edited by Harlikwin

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