F-15C v3.0??

[Kev2go]

You're the one who pointed out the advantage of more fuel and loiter time so why mad about me disregarding that?

Yes, we know about Razbam's E being WIP. We probably gonna jump into it right away. But this thread is a wish for a hifi C module because we like that, not Strike Eagle. What's your point? That E is better anyway for A2A? It's not. There's a reason for using air superiority aircraft in its role otherwise there would be multiroles only for CAP, CAS, you name it.

 

 

Other nations do have designed single airframes for all roles

 

 

The ef or rafayale are what? Pure air to air? No they arent.

 

Hell even the f22 raptor that intended as next generation air superiority is capable of a/g and has been of late been utilized as a bomber such as dropping jdam and sdb's.

 

Sorry but the concept utilizing aircraft as nothing but purist single role air superiority is a thing of the past, mostly due to cost efficiency, and because dedicated a2a isnt really going to be a nessesity unless going up against neer peer. Foreign users like Israel have turned thier single seat "air superiority" eagles

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[AeriaGloria]

What proof that Razbam intends CFTs to be removable? AFAIK only at Saudi air shows. Charlie model all the way!!!

[GGTharos]

Having them removable would be a bit of a joke. The USAF might remove them if they were desperate to replace F-15C combat losses and needed a high performance A2A only aircraft. In any case, it's not the pilot's decision - you can't just say 'I want CFTs on/off' ... those are installed at the depot level and left there - they're not like drop tanks.

 

I'd suggest that RAZBAM either prevents removal altogether or alternatively, make this configurable strictly via the ME and not make them available for removal/mounting from the weapons menu for example. That way the mission creator controls the configuration of the aircraft to his/her desired level of realism.

 

What proof that Razbam intends CFTs to be removable? AFAIK only at Saudi air shows. Charlie model all the way!!!

[Kev2go]

What proof that Razbam intends CFTs to be removable? AFAIK only at Saudi air shows. Charlie model all the way!!!

 

il glady fly a Charlie model... If it has secondary ground attack capability , or especially it be an outright Israeli modification with guided munitions. :yes:

 

and if any team makes a charlie model hopefully itl get a 2000s era Eagle with JHMCS and Aim9X

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

Having them removable would be a bit of a joke. The USAF might remove them if they were desperate to replace F-15C combat losses and needed a high performance A2A only aircraft. In any case, it's not the pilot's decision - you can't just say 'I want CFTs on/off' ... those are installed at the depot level and left there - they're not like drop tanks.

 

I'd suggest that RAZBAM either prevents removal altogether or alternatively, make this configurable strictly via the ME and not make them available for removal/mounting from the weapons menu for example. That way the mission creator controls the configuration of the aircraft to his/her desired level of realism.

 

No the CFT should be removable per ordinance menu. Remember if ED offers a Lot 20 Hornet to be flown with underwing hard points ( basically only a airshow configuration when it comes to USN/USMC hornets) which can be done whilst already spawned ingame, so theres no reason a F15E should be different.

 

Besides if CFT's were that bad for A2A combat than the USAF wouldnt adopt them as an option for thier Air superiority eagles..

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[RaceFuel85]

That all being said...a full up F-15C, even if it wasn't a APG63 V2 or V3 jet, would hurt a lot of feelings.

 

I personally don't see why we can't get a late 90's F-15C, IE APG63 V1, MSIP II, etc.

[GGTharos]

Even airshow F-15Es are flown with CFTs. Pylons may not be depot-level installable, I don't know. CFTs definitely are.

 

 

 

No the CFT should be removable per ordinance menu. Remember if ED offers a Lot 20 Hornet to be flown with underwing hard points ( basically only a airshow configuration when it comes to USN/USMC hornets) which can be done whilst already spawned ingame, so theres no reason a F15E should be different.

Edited January 31, 2019 by GGTharos

[Kev2go]

Even airshow F-15Es are flown with CFTs. Pylons may not be depot-level installable, I don't know. CFTs definitely are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[GGTharos]

Each one of these has CFTs mounted ...

[Kev2go]

Each one of these has CFTs mounted ...

 

 

 

[GGTharos]

So what is this, a CFC check or an airshow before they shut down the practice of flying those without CFTs? :)

[DeathRaptor5]

And just to torment the light grey fans I found these old photos of the first F-15C built and the first F-15E built equipped with the a2a cfts and a2a/a2g cfts.:D

[GGTharos]

Well aware of Icelandic eagles using them, maybe the Alaskan ones did as well at some point. Who's tormenting what here. :)

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

 

Sorry but the concept utilizing aircraft as nothing but purist single role air superiority is a thing of the past, mostly due to cost efficiency, and because dedicated a2a isnt really going to be a nessesity unless going up against neer peer. Foreign users like Israel have turned thier single seat "air superiority" eagles

 

It is a thing in the past sure, but this is DCS that we are talking about and I'm pretty sure plenty of us prefer the good old clean Chairlie compare to the Mudhen. And at the current rate of RAZBAM, i personally don't think that their F-15E would feature a configurable/removable CFT due to both authenticity - that USAF simply doesn't fly "clean" Mudhen in combat, and the sheer amount of engineering behind it to support something as advanced like CFT (something that I doubt RAZBAM would be able to do.

 

So yeah, the need for a full-fidelity Charlie is present in DCS (not IRL). A lot of us excels in air-to-air role only that doesn't really want anything to do with air-to-muds. I would definitely fly the mudhen too, but with the in-service configurations of always-on CFT, it will never be able to exercise air combat as effective as the Charlie.

 

 

Besides if CFT's were that bad for A2A combat than the USAF wouldnt adopt them as an option for thier Air superiority eagles..

 

Those are ANG's F-15Cs , they fly mostly BARCAP in main land. Front-line USAF squadrons (USAFE or Pacific-based) don't use them AFAIK.

 

That all being said...a full up F-15C, even if it wasn't a APG63 V2 or V3 jet, would hurt a lot of feelings.

 

I personally don't see why we can't get a late 90's F-15C, IE APG63 V1, MSIP II, etc.

 

I think most of the late 90's MSIP-II F-15C with APG-63V1 were all capable of receiving the AIM-9X with JHMCS in 2004 when USAF rolled them out. So a 2004 config of APG-63 V1 with JHMCS Eagle is not a far fetch and definitely want we want. 2004 upgrades also includes nice stuffs like GPS and Datalink.

Edited February 1, 2019 by AMRAAM_Missiles

[GGTharos]

It is a thing in the past sure,

 

 

It's far from being in the past. It's only not practiced by air forces who don't have the funding to run dedicated air to air squadrons. And while those birds themselves might be multi-role (ie. capable of carrying A2G weapons), it's all about what their main training is. If you look at F-16 squadrons, some specialize in A2A, and that's what they do for the most part.

[wilbur81]

I'm pretty sure plenty of us prefer the good old clean Chairlie compare to the Mudhen.

 

I'm certainly one of those. There's only one American jet-fighter that looks good and natural with a backseat, and Heatblur's delivering that one soon. :thumbup:

 

Scrap the Mudhen and bring on the Eagle.

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

It's far from being in the past. It's only not practiced by air forces who don't have the funding to run dedicated air to air squadrons. And while those birds themselves might be multi-role (ie. capable of carrying A2G weapons), it's all about what their main training is. If you look at F-16 squadrons, some specialize in A2A, and that's what they do for the most part.

 

Building Air-Superiority-Only aircraft is a thing in the past, not saying that air-superiority mission is (in fact, it is one of the most important mission whenever war happens).

 

I believe very much that all F-22 Squadrons are Air-to-Air focused with minimal training on A/G so they can fill in the role if they have to. With 4 Squadrons of F-15Cs left , they are pretty much the tips of the spears beside the Raptors who is still tasking with taking the skies over.

[GGTharos]

Building Air-Superiority-Only aircraft is a thing in the past, not saying that air-superiority mission is (in fact, it is one of the most important mission whenever war happens).

 

 

F-22 is not a thing of the past. Neither is the Su-57 not the Typhoon. Sure, they can haul A2G stores. So could the F-15A.

 

 

All of these aircraft were built with air superiority ONLY as their primary mission, and it shows in their capabilities.

 

 

 

You can slap bombs on an aircraft and call it multi-role, but it won't do strike like a strike aircraft. You can do the same with strike aircraft - slap A2A weapons on them ... but don't expect them to out-fight the air superiority fighters.

[DeathRaptor5]

Well aware of Icelandic eagles using them, maybe the Alaskan ones did as well at some point. Who's tormenting what here. :)

 

 

Here's footage F-15C operating from Alaska with CFTs. Skip to 39:00

 

 

[GGTharos]

This sortie. It will be long.

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

F-22 is not a thing of the past. Neither is the Su-57 not the Typhoon. Sure, they can haul A2G stores. So could the F-15A.

 

 

All of these aircraft were built with air superiority ONLY as their primary mission, and it shows in their capabilities.

 

 

 

You can slap bombs on an aircraft and call it multi-role, but it won't do strike like a strike aircraft. You can do the same with strike aircraft - slap A2A weapons on them ... but don't expect them to out-fight the air superiority fighters.

 

It was partially available in the F-15A, but the entire software suite for A/G got deleted the moment F-15E is a thing, and also the Eagle crew were never trained for A/G, Raptor Drivers do train them , although not much beside a side job, but at least it is officially recognized as one of the task that they can do.

 

Back Up Functionality != Officially recognized/Task-able. I don't think they would consider any planes now that can't drop bombs and shoot at air target at the same time, regardless of their primary roles. Oh well, that is a topic for an another afternoon with a good beer.

[Kev2go]

F-22 is not a thing of the past. Neither is the Su-57 not the Typhoon. Sure, they can haul A2G stores. So could the F-15A.

 

 

All of these aircraft were built with air superiority ONLY as their primary mission, and it shows in their capabilities.

 

 

 

You can slap bombs on an aircraft and call it multi-role, but it won't do strike like a strike aircraft. You can do the same with strike aircraft - slap A2A weapons on them ... but don't expect them to out-fight the air superiority fighters.

 

 

Becuase the Typhoon is a multirole A/C. Its not like the F15A where it could just optionally lug unguided bombs and otherwise pilots had no A/G training.

 

The Typhoon since Tranch 1 block 5 has had proper multi-role capabilities ( including being able to utilize a Litening TGP and LGB's), further enhanced for that role with Tranch 2 which included largery array of A/G weaponry integration among other things. At this point all Tranche 1 EF are up to block 5 standards.

 

The EF can make use of various Precision Guided munitions like LGB's , GPS guided bombs, Brimstone missiles, and anti radiation missiles like ALARM. and has actually been used in such roles. with the retirement of the Tornado it means EF will be used for A/G operations in any future deployments even more.

 

with that in mind the EF has more in common with aircraft like the hornet and Viper than large dedicated AS airframe like F15A/C eagles from the USAF.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In any case in todays era of modern electronics, networked aircraft, and precision guided muntions, and Targeting Pods, it means than there really isnt much of difference between a "multirole" fighter and a dedicated Strike fighter apart from the fact of thier original design purpose. sure if its a very large strike aircraft, it can store more fuel to fly farther, and can lug more munitions, but that multirole fighter with TGP and guided muntions "slapped on" isn't necessarily going to be worse in accuracy and precision, hence why been hard in todays times financially justify building single purpose aircraft anymore

Edited February 3, 2019 by Kev2go

[Koty]

Personally I really dislike calling something "multi-role", it's way too confusing. F-15 built as a knife-fighter first, and then bomb-lugging capability squeezed in utilizing just what was already on the plane (hence "no pound for air to ground"); and the Typhy is for all intents and purposes a bomber with self-escort capability.

 

In any case.

 

Yes, give me my F-15C, with a pair of CFT's - and three MK84s underneath, just to make all the fanboys mad.

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

Personally I really dislike calling something "multi-role", it's way too confusing. F-15 built as a knife-fighter first, and then bomb-lugging capability squeezed in utilizing just what was already on the plane (hence "no pound for air to ground"); and the Typhy is for all intents and purposes a bomber with self-escort capability.

 

In any case.

 

Yes, give me my F-15C, with a pair of CFT's - and three MK84s underneath, just to make all the fanboys mad.

 

Just a fun fact, F-15A-C does have a back-up ability built-in to the software suite as well as the APG-63 to do ground works. In-fact it was probably the best strike fighter at the time of introduction (better than the F-4), but this capability was never officially recognized (politics) and the entire A/G functionality got deleted from the A-C Eagles the moment the Mudhen is a thing.

[Kev2go]

Just a fun fact, F-15A-C does have a back-up ability built-in to the software suite as well as the APG-63 to do ground works. In-fact it was probably the best strike fighter at the time of introduction (better than the F-4), but this capability was never officially recognized (politics) and the entire A/G functionality got deleted from the A-C Eagles the moment the Mudhen is a thing.

 

I wouldn't go that far. AN/apg63 had only basic A/G mapping (mostly just for all weather navigation like M2000C) , but lacked many of the actual radar targeting and advanced radar options that the AN/APG70 has for Strike mission within the Srike eagle.

 

realistically F15A/C bombing capacity was limited to just CCIP/CCRP with unguided muntions.

 

In that regard its not really superior ( certainly not the best) strike aircraft to the F4E since that platform was capable of utilizing precision guided munitions: most notably mavericks, and ability to self guide Laser guided bombs ivia TGP which was initially the Pave knife, and later IR capable Pave tack for all weather operations ( latter of which was targeting sensor tech from the F111) . All the while the F4E still had some degree of SEAD capability ( AGM45 Shrike) to at least self protect. Not that the F4 was by any means the USAF highest tech strike platform. IF anything until the F15E, the most advanced strike platform in the USAF inventory would have been the F-111.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Kev2go