** F-14 Development Update: December 2018 **

[Fjordmonkey]

It shouldn't carry a risk, but it does - you're relying on good faith that it'll ever be finished. Better than getting nothing at all of course.

 

The problem with this reasoning when you're dealing with flightsims is that flightsims is an EXTREMELY niche market, and development-time costs money. In addition, the studios are small and many depend upon Early Access in order to fund their production and eventual release of said product.

 

Yes, there's always a risk of another VEAO-situation. That's also why the community is EXTREMELY wary against new production-teams promising the world.

[shagrat]

It shouldn't carry a risk, but it does - you're relying on good faith that it'll ever be finished. Better than getting nothing at all of course.

This risk exists with basically everything you order and pay in advance or get delivered later. Nobody can exclude the risk of the company going broke and you lose your money.

 

Unless you physically exchange money vs. product in a store, there is a certain risk, we usually simply accept, but intermediaries like a credit card company with insurance, or Paypal etc. can mitigate that risk.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The problem with this reasoning when you're dealing with flightsims is that flightsims is an EXTREMELY niche market, and development-time costs money. In addition, the studios are small and many depend upon Early Access in order to fund their production and eventual release of said product.

 

Yes, there's always a risk of another VEAO-situation. That's also why the community is EXTREMELY wary against new production-teams promising the world.

 

Oh yeah you're very right about that. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not against the idea of early access. In fact HB are probably a good example of how to do things - as you say they're a very small company getting some money in towards the end to get over the finishing line. An advance on business as usual revenue if you will.

 

What VEAO did was to take peoples money before they were ever truly established as a capital injection/seed fund to try and get going. Very different approaches, but sometimes hard to tell the difference until it's all over!

 

This risk exists with basically everything you order and pay in advance or get delivered later. Nobody can exclude the risk of the company going broke and you lose your money.

 

Unless you physically exchange money vs. product in a store, there is a certain risk, we usually simply accept, but intermediaries like a credit card company with insurance, or Paypal etc. can mitigate that risk.

 

Why do you think this type of business should be different to any other retailer, online or otherwise?

[shagrat]

 

Why do you think this type of business should be different to any other retailer, online or otherwise?

I thought your comment

It shouldn't carry a risk, but it does - you're relying on good faith that it'll ever be finished.

expressed the wish to negate any risk?

Sorry, think we are on the same page, then...

[F900EX]

I'm not saying they forced me to do anything. I'm saying that early access shouldn't carry any extra risk of not receiving a completed product than if I'd bought it already complete.

 

Again, not referring to Heatblur specifically.

 

 

There is ZERO risk why? I'm assuming you have used a credit card right?

 

So credit cards offer protection for goods and services not rendered or deliveried even in the internet world, Lets just say a XYC DCS company goes out of business and does not deliver, you can file a dispute and get your $$$ back...... and yes I know what your thinking, they did not deliver what was promised or marketed, you file a dispute ....Case solved and closed :pilotfly:

Edited January 27, 2019 by F900EX

[SandMan23]

Credit Card disputes aren't as clean cut as you make them out.

 

Outside of actual fraud, lost stolen cards, etc. Credit card disputes usually fall into (2) categories.

1 - Billing errors:

- cardholder didn't authorize the charge

- goods or services were not delivered or supplied

- goods were not delivered in a timely manner

- goods delivered were in the wrong quantity.

 

In all cases above, the cardholder has (60) days to dispute the charge after billed on the statement. (Most likely more that 60 days would have elapsed between the EA purchase and your dispute - definitely has in my case as I purchased as soon as announced.)

 

2- Claims and defenses category

- Quality of the goods or services were not as advertised or faulty as a result.

The claims and defense category has several restrictions on most card agreements.

-The claim doesn't apply to any portion of the charge (including the entire charge) if paid prior to filing the dispute. (If you are paying your credit card bill on time, you would have long since paid the charge for a module before filing a dispute in most cases.

-Claims can only be made for purchases of $50 or more, where the purchase was made in the CH's state or within a 100 miles of their home.

-The cardholder must also first make a "good faith" attempt to resolve the dispute with the retailer.

 

Some banks will make exceptions to the billing error grace period or the geographical restrictions of the claims and defense category, but these are purely discretionary and should not be relied upon as a given.

 

Bottom line being by the time most if any people would file a dispute with their credit card companies over a pre-order EA purchase for dissatisfaction with the release timing or purchase, the time limits would have expired or you would have already paid the bill. Making a dispute refund far less likely.

 

Best case would be dealing with the retailer directly (which in the couple of instances (or 1) I have seen here, HB promptly accommodated with a refund.

 

 

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, just qualifying the "file a dispute" thread

[Cobra847]

I'll keep this weeks update short and simple.

 

[Knubinator]

Is this a view of the back seat? That weathering is so amazing!

[pimp]

Daaaamn. I see why the art work is taking so long for the RIO pit.:thumbup:

[firmek]

Looks really authentic and immersive. I'm starting to think what I got myself into preordering this module. Learning how to and then start up everything in the back seat will take a looooot of time.

[ShadowFrost]

Does this mean we may get some RIO footage within a week?

[F900EX]

Credit Card disputes aren't as clean cut as you make them out.

 

Outside of actual fraud, lost stolen cards, etc. Credit card disputes usually fall into (2) categories.

1 - Billing errors:

- cardholder didn't authorize the charge

- goods or services were not delivered or supplied

- goods were not delivered in a timely manner

- goods delivered were in the wrong quantity.

 

In all cases above, the cardholder has (60) days to dispute the charge after billed on the statement. (Most likely more that 60 days would have elapsed between the EA purchase and your dispute - definitely has in my case as I purchased as soon as announced.)

 

2- Claims and defenses category

- Quality of the goods or services were not as advertised or faulty as a result.

The claims and defense category has several restrictions on most card agreements.

-The claim doesn't apply to any portion of the charge (including the entire charge) if paid prior to filing the dispute. (If you are paying your credit card bill on time, you would have long since paid the charge for a module before filing a dispute in most cases.

-Claims can only be made for purchases of $50 or more, where the purchase was made in the CH's state or within a 100 miles of their home.

-The cardholder must also first make a "good faith" attempt to resolve the dispute with the retailer.

 

Some banks will make exceptions to the billing error grace period or the geographical restrictions of the claims and defense category, but these are purely discretionary and should not be relied upon as a given.

 

Bottom line being by the time most if any people would file a dispute with their credit card companies over a pre-order EA purchase for dissatisfaction with the release timing or purchase, the time limits would have expired or you would have already paid the bill. Making a dispute refund far less likely.

 

Best case would be dealing with the retailer directly (which in the couple of instances (or 1) I have seen here, HB promptly accommodated with a refund.

 

 

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, just qualifying the "file a dispute" thread

 

 

Sandman, I don't dispute that HB would do the right thing looks like your using chase terms and conditions dispute form. I know credit cards very well and in my dispute process and experience I have never had a problem when the "seller" has not resolved the issue, each credit card has different terms and conditions, my point is if HB didn't resolve it he would have other options. Honestly sounds like the person I was replying too hasn't even bought the F-14 module :noexpression:

[F14luvr]

Now that the RIO seat is nearly complete, first EA release should be right around the corner then.

 

Right? :)

[Tinkickef]

Now that the RIO seat is nearly complete, first EA release should be right around the corner then.

 

Right? :)

 

March 20th. ;)

[OnlyforDCS]

I'll keep this weeks update short and simple.

 

 

Quoted for good measure! Thanks Cobra, I really, really hope you guys are getting close!

[TomCatMucDe]

Now that the RIO seat is nearly complete, first EA release should be right around the corner then.

 

Right? :)

 

what is around the corner? You could argue that any date between now and 20th of March is around the corner, even if I couldnt wait any longer :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Sandman, I don't dispute that HB would do the right thing looks like your using chase terms and conditions dispute form. I know credit cards very well and in my dispute process and experience I have never had a problem when the "seller" has not resolved the issue, each credit card has different terms and conditions, my point is if HB didn't resolve it he would have other options. Honestly sounds like the person I was replying too hasn't even bought the F-14 module :noexpression:

 

Wrong. But since you didn't read my post properly it's not surprising.

[Bloodhound57]

Great pic! Its like a chubby chick on Facebook. Playing the angles.

[pimp]

Great pic! Its like a chubby chick on Facebook. Playing the angles.

:megalol::megalol::megalol: That was a good one. This thread needed a laugh.

[Strikeeagle345]

Great pic! Its like a chubby chick on Facebook. Playing the angles.

 

:megalol::lol:

[rjetster1]

That backseat is amazing! Never thought I would see this type of quality in a simulation... can only imagine what the next 5 years will bring.

[Dudikoff]

I'll keep this weeks update short and simple.

 

Looking forward to a video of showing all those circuit breakers in action. ;)

 

I do hope Jester won't go HAL on us and will flip that eject command paddle to pilot position if asked to..

Edited January 28, 2019 by Dudikoff

[F900EX]

Wrong. But since you didn't read my post properly it's not surprising.

 

SO ask for your refund and move on..... Lot's of people happy to pre-buy today and wait for the module unlike yourself who wants to suck the excitement and spirit of the release with useless posts with no merit. Ask HB for a refund and move on..... geezzzz

[Void78]

Looking forward to a video of showing all those circuit breakers in action. ;)

 

I do hope Jester won't go HAL on us and will flip that eject command paddle to pilot position if asked to..

 

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

HB loves HAL

 

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

SO ask for your refund and move on..... Lot's of people happy to pre-buy today and wait for the module unlike yourself who wants to suck the excitement and spirit of the release with useless posts with no merit. Ask HB for a refund and move on..... geezzzz

 

You've waded in half way through a discussion, totally missed the point and insulted people who's posts you've made no effort to read properly. Take a look at yourself before accusing people of making useless posts.