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F-14 Release Date Discussion Thread


zhujiammy

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Not sure which time period you guys mean but back in 1999 this was not the case. A lot of exxageration but stories get more exotic each time they are told...
As mentioned, read Haun's book...

It's available as PDF

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a421682.pdf

 

from the ROE chapter: (...)"When an AFAC independently found a target in a restricted area or close to a village, it usually took 15 to 20 minutes to obtain approval."(...)

...and that was just normal procedure with the CAOC involved. They describe an incident where the approval went back and forth for much longer...


Edited by shagrat

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Bro’, I was launched on an Alert 5 in down jet without even signing for the aircraft. No alignment, no VDI, No radar, No HUD, at night, with the capacity to shoot a boresight sidewinder in the dark. Think that would ever happen in the USAF? They’d launch a Congressional Investigation today...

 

I also worked in MTC. Aircraft Division Officer. Navy guys tend to get it. Air Force? They check their jets out from the MTC squadron and mostly don’t see or care about what it takes to keep ‘em flying.

 

Interesting stuff there - the Sidewinder Boresight mode, for when the WCS is off or malfunctioning.

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This thread is so full of "Hurry up and wait", it's delicious.

 

Just give me a weeks notice so I can book some holidays, I'll be ready whenever it comes.

 

 

Normally when the folks I fly with get soemthing new, we sit there on comms doing the equivalent of "I wonder what this button does?"

 

This time, there's going to be a crew doing it with different buttons at the same time. It's going to be mayhem. And we have a sweepstake for the first command ejection.

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To be fair: Yes I can fly it with one engine and yes, I DO take that as a challenge!

 

Methinks this will wind up as a community contest eventually...

 

 

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Nope. Pilots and RIOs are Naval Aviators. Therefore, the distinction is made.

 

Do you know where the term comes from?

 

not really. but i'd love to know ! air balloons crew ?

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Nope. Pilots and RIOs are Naval Aviators. Therefore, the distinction is made.

 

Do you know where the term comes from?

 

Carrier pigeons?

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As mentioned, read Haun's book...

It's available as PDF

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a421682.pdf

 

from the ROE chapter: (...)"When an AFAC independently found a target in a restricted area or close to a village, it usually took 15 to 20 minutes to obtain approval."(...)

...and that was just normal procedure with the CAOC involved. They describe an incident where the approval went back and forth for much longer...

 

Sorry, I meant it especially for the Bundewehr and more in Eldurs direction:)

 

If you want to laugh about an army, take the Bundeswehr... I've been told by someone who was part of the KFOR in Kosovo that they had to call the parliament and ask if they're allowed to return fire while being attacked in a real combat scenario. The parliament then had to debate over it and call them back in order to allow them defend themselves...

 

They were able and allowed to defend themselves with all assets in place. Nobody had to radio back for instructions in case of self defense during both, land and boarding operations. But a great example how to spread fake News :thumbup:


Edited by FSKRipper

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Sorry, I meant it especially for the Bundewehr :)
Yep, German Luftwaffe didn't drop much ordnance during KFOR, so not much to comply with the ROEs. ;)

Shagrat

 

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Yep, German Luftwaffe didn't drop much ordnance during KFOR, so not much to comply with the ROEs. ;)

 

Found it:

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Found it:

Yep, classic self defense... ;)

I remember, as well, the extraction of civilians from the airport of Tirana.

Shagrat

 

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Yep, classic self defense... ;)

I remember, as well, the extraction of civilians from the airport of Tirana.

 

Good point. Remember this one also. Wasn't funnier from the sea side and seems to be half a life ago...

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Well, haven't been there, just heard exactly what I wrote from one who was. But it looks like a good example for how soldiers tend to "hero up" their stories. He was inside an armoured vehicle by the way, may be the case the firing they took wasn't really dangerous to them at all if it was just gunfire.

 

Doesn't change anything that our troops are just there to hold the enemy back laughing at them until an actual army arrives. Just having in mind that less than 30% of our Eurofighters are in combat ready condition gives it all.

 

The only good thing about all that is that we don't really need them at all at the moment, but to quote a famous person here, "everything is subject to change" and that would end in us being crushed the very first in case things go south.

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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They were able and allowed to defend themselves with all assets in place. Nobody had to radio back for instructions in case of self defense during both, land and boarding operations. But a great example how to spread fake News :thumbup:

 

 

No country that wanted to not be overthrown by an angry military would make combat actions reliant on debate by parliament. The closes I know of were restrictive ROEs during Vietnam, and even those boiled down to "if it shoots at you, shoot back." The exceptions to that rule were the Haiphong and Hanoi zones, and that was just a simple "do not attack anything here for any reason."

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No country that wanted to not be overthrown by an angry military would make combat actions reliant on debate by parliament. The closes I know of were restrictive ROEs during Vietnam, and even those boiled down to "if it shoots at you, shoot back." The exceptions to that rule were the Haiphong and Hanoi zones, and that was just a simple "do not attack anything here for any reason."
Unfortunately, this changed with the availability of direct video feeds from overhead drones to the brass and their homies, taking away decisions from the field commander based on a "look through the straw" by a General in warmth and comfort of a headquarter 1,000 miles away from the actual scene, with no detailed knowledge about the ground situation.

Whatever the reason they want to have the "final call", the basic principles of warfare demand that command decisions on an operational and tactical level are made by someone on scene... watching a video footage does not qualify as "on scene". Headquarters makes strategic decisions and give tactical guidelines and goals.

In fact during the Balkans conflict there were several nations involving politicians (usually defense ministry or similar) in critical decisions and approvals, as it was a non-sanctioned UN-peace keeping mission, with no backing by international law. De facto the two conflict parties need to ask for a peace keeping mission to make it legit. The Balkans were a first in history and many countries involved in the UN-mission were very careful, to an extent that nullified the military effort.

That changed with the NATO mission, but still the ROE were pretty restrictive compared to Vietnam.

Germany for example discouraged "self defense" unless absolutely necessary to prevent loss of lifes... and yes, that was very "controversial" especially in the Bundeswehr. ;)

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121 pages in and this thread still delivers!

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unknown.png

 

 

Any news from the test ?

 

 

Greets

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No news = bad news :)

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Any news from the test ?

 

 

Greets

 

 

At this point, saying they are very close to announcing a "release date" is ridiculous. Comments like that are just more irritating than anything else at this stage. I mean, we know it'll release on or before 3/20, which is 4 weeks away. At this point, nobody is waiting for a date. We are waiting for a release, period.

 

"We're really close to announcing a date on which we will announce a date that we are going to reveal the release date."

 

Ha! No thanks.

 

Just release the stupid thing already, or don't...but stop dicking around.


Edited by Jarhead0331
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At this point, saying they are very close to announcing a "release date" is ridiculous. Comments like that are just more irritating than anything else at this stage. I mean, we know it'll release on or before 3/20, which is 4 weeks away. At this point, nobody is waiting for a date. We are waiting for a release, period.

 

 

"We're really close to announcing a date on which we will announce a date that we are going to reveal the release date."

 

 

Ha! No thanks.

 

 

Just release the stupid thing already, or don't...but stop dicking around.

I'd rather delay it by one week or more, rather than having a buggy product, I don't care how long it takes, as long as its good.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

 

Any landing where the plane will fly again is a GREAT landing!

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I'd rather delay it by one week or more, rather than having a buggy product, I don't care how long it takes, as long as its good.

 

Yeah, fine...that's not the point I'm making though. I'm just saying that these tiny little meaningless updates from Heatblur about being really close to announcing more dates at this point is silly and quite frankly, a bit antagonizing.

 

Just my opinion.

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