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Better train model in BS?


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In the screenshot you see that the bridge was blown up, but the train still managed to fly across it. In Black Shark it certainly would be fun to do some train chasing with the Ka50, so can there be a more accurate modelling of the train?

ScreenShot_002.JPG.732a2c083a1aaa93251bb29a02971a96.JPG

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Omega dear

 

don't you think there are more important things to consider in Big Shark?

 

Many here are wanting bug fixes and/or improvements to central issues and not some minor/trivial nonsense that is NOT central to the 'game'.

 

Frankly, this is a waste of thread space on this forum.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mizzy

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Omega dear

 

don't you think there are more important things to consider in Big Shark?

 

Many here are wanting bug fixes and/or improvements to central issues and not some minor/trivial nonsense that is NOT central to the 'game'.

 

Frankly, this is a waste of thread space on this forum.

 

Just my opinion.

 

uuuuuum...He isn't even asking for minor graphical things to be modeled, like others on here asking for shock wave cones, 3d people figures walking, etc etc.

 

This is an ACTUAL BUG that SHOULD be worked out. It is not minor nor trivial and it IS a central issue to the game. We're talking about floating vehicles above a wrecked bridge for crying out loud.

 

Missions and there outcome are altered heavily, for example, if the task was to destroy a bridge to prevent the advance of enemy vehicles/tanks/trains, they would still move across it, reach the target in which you were supposed to protect, and hit it. You'd lose the mission anyway! You'd always have to make sure you individually killed each vehicle!

 

Just wait, being BS being a heavily air2ground oriented game, this will grow to be a MASSIVE problem..

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Omega dear

 

don't you think there are more important things to consider in Big Shark?

 

Many here are wanting bug fixes and/or improvements to central issues and not some minor/trivial nonsense that is NOT central to the 'game'.

 

Frankly, this is a waste of thread space on this forum.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mizzy

 

I am not bashing ED to fix it. I just want to tell them the problem, just in case they don't know about it. Fix it or not is their choice, I will certainly buy Black Shark regardless.

 

Happy flying, Omega Oska

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I heard this directly from the Devs! They will implement ALM (Advanced Locomotive Modeling) in Black Shark. First, all trains will adhere to current timetables which will be downloaded each time a player logs on to a MP mission. Also, trains will arrive and depart with some "variance" to the timetables, as is the fashion in both Georgia and the Crimea. Second, train systems and locomotive physics will be accurately modeled right down to each brake, piston, valve or battery as the case may be. There will even be a little engineer who will flip you a sign of affection from a single finger if lucky enough to survive your attack.

 

Enjoy!

 

Smokin' Hole

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Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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By the same token; I believe the developers of 'loco Driver: Black Soot' are now correcting the bug in their train driver sim whereby airoplanes fly across the sky, with-out ever having to land....

 

This ^ is all very funy, but this:

 

ScreenShot_037reduced.jpg

detracts strongly from realism in a CAS simulation - which is what LOBS is.

Trains - & traffic crossing bridges are not 'eyecandy' any more, they're integral to the sim.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you can't set the goal of something surviving because you've taken out a bridge then picked off the convoy, if the convoy just drives across empty space.

 

If it's not fixed in LOBS yet - leave it till the next patch :-), but it needs looking at...

Cheers.

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I am not bashing ED to fix it. I just want to tell them the problem, just in case they don't know about it. Fix it or not is their choice, I will certainly buy Black Shark regardless.

 

Happy flying, Omega Oska

 

Sorry Omey, yes i do see your point now.

 

Forgive me as i don't play LOMAC seriously, therefore I should keep my virtual mouth shut on these issues.

 

Apologies

 

Mizzy.

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Sorry Omey, yes i do see your point now.

 

Forgive me as i don't play LOMAC seriously, therefore I should keep my virtual mouth shut on these issues.

 

Apologies

 

Mizzy.

 

 

No problem, it's just a misunderstanding.

 

BTW, I also think that an advancing tank column should spread out for cover when being attacked from above. In LOMAC, they just stay on the road with a constant speed. Is it possible to add at least some scripted AI so that they can try to run away?

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This ^ is all very funy, but this:

 

[snip]

 

detracts strongly from realism in a CAS simulation - which is what LOBS is.

Trains - & traffic crossing bridges are not 'eyecandy' any more, they're integral to the sim.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you can't set the goal of something surviving because you've taken out a bridge then picked off the convoy, if the convoy just drives across empty space.

 

If it's not fixed in LOBS yet - leave it till the next patch :-), but it needs looking at...

 

Well actually the question of realism might be a little more complex - at least for the vehicules in your screenshot ;) .

 

The thing is that lots of APC/IFV types are amphibious and actually would have no trouble "swimming" across a puny little stream like the one in your shot - so from an overall mission point of view it is actually more unrealistic for the game code to force them(those particular types of vehicules) to stop and just sit in front of a destroyed bridge. :) .

JJ

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You've got a point Alpha, at least for some of the vehicles, but I've seen that too. And it's not just amphibious vehicles that do it, they all do.

 

What's actually happening there is the convoy is routed along the road, but the sim has mispositioned the route by a few meters (and in the instances I've seen it it's ALWAYS to the right of the road as in the screenshot). This results in the effect seen in the screenshot when the convoy reaches a bridge..... but even then taking out the bridge won't stop the convoy. It's seems to me that there's a mismatch in the game engine between where the sim engine *thinks* the vehicles should be and where the graphics engine actually draws them. Excuse the layman's terms here. But as it is this phenominon is easy to reproduce. Just set up a convoy of vehicles along a road that crosses a bridge. Run the mission a few times and you should see this happen.

 

Now taking out a bridge has always been a valid tactic to disrupt an enemy's supply or slow its advance. With this (somewhat minor at present) bug, any opportunity to employ those tactics are gone. Destroying the bridge in the graphics engines doesn't seem to register that the route is now effectively blocked (even though the bridge may be shown in the mission debrief as being destroyed).

 

And with Black Shark firmly shifting the focus from pure A-2-A combat to ground attack and combined arms ops, the bug is going to become more noticable and eventually irritating, even though it's not a showstopper in any way shape or form.

 

Unfortunately where you're talking about a route mismatch of a couple of meters in a map the size of LOMAC's I can imagine it could be a nasty one to try and fix (but then again I'm not a programmer, but I am a habitual pessimist!!)

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Well Jester I wasn't trying to give the impression that there are no problems in regards to the movement of ground units/terrain - just merely pointing out that the tactic of interupting the advance of enemy ground forces by taking out bridges would require a more complex implementation to be fully realistic :) .

 

But then ground forces ignoring a destroyed bridge is not a universial issue and I distinctly remember succesfully applying the above tactic for the Su-25T quick mission(accessible from main menu) in FC - i.e. rather than attacking an enemy column directly, I would search for a bridge ahead of it, destroy it and then, as the column came to a halt in front of it, have a much easier time picking out the motionless targets.....not very "sporty" but effective :D .

 

Anyway, to return to the specific issue of the thread, I believe the issue with trains has to do with this being sort of a "generic map feature"("civilian traffic" option) and as such rather simplistic in nature - i.e. you will also notice that civilian road traffic doesn't sense the presense of obstacles......i.e. will drive straight through a slower moving tank placed there via the mission editor.

JJ

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This seems (to me) to be related to the bug where sometimes planes collide with the ground shile still som tens of metres above it, which is also going to be a pain in LOBS.

 

Perhaps - perhaps not :) . This sounds like an issue with the terrain mesh at a particular point of the map, while I believe the issue with trains traversing a destroyed bridge has more to do with the level of dynamics(or lack of it) coded for "civilian traffic".

JJ

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Well Jester I wasn't trying to give the impression that there are no problems in regards to the movement of ground units/terrain - just merely pointing out that the tactic of interupting the advance of enemy ground forces by taking out bridges would require a more complex implementation to be fully realistic :) .

 

But then ground forces ignoring a destroyed bridge is not a universial issue and I distinctly remember succesfully applying the above tactic for the Su-25T quick mission(accessible from main menu) in FC - i.e. rather than attacking an enemy column directly, I would search for a bridge ahead of it, destroy it and then, as the column came to a halt in front of it, have a much easier time picking out the motionless targets.....not very "sporty" but effective :D

 

 

I see what you mean. Just tried that in the quick start mission and it's worked fine. So your comments about terrain mesh in your reply to Weta makes a lot of sense.

 

This being the case, would it be worthwhile reporting it when it's found a specific bridge has this problem, or being a none universal problem is it the type of thing that would take longer for the devs to track down than would be economic for them to fix? (Sorry if it's a daft question, as I said in my previous post, I'm not a programmer).

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I see what you mean. Just tried that in the quick start mission and it's worked fine.

 

Yup - the only issue I remember seeing was that the first vehicule in the column didn't stop early enough and "parked" hanging in the air somewhere over the first(destroyed) bridge support pylon......but the column as such did react to the destruction of the bridge.

 

So your comments about terrain mesh in your reply to Weta makes a lot of sense.

 

Well my mention of a terrain error was in connection with the issue Weta mentioned - i.e. where an aircraft would suddenly crash into the ground although seemingly being several meters above it. I am less certain about the "floating train" - as I mentioned I think it is down to the simplistic nature of dynamics for "generic" traffic.

 

This being the case, would it be worthwhile reporting it when it's found a specific bridge has this problem, or being a none universal problem is it the type of thing that would take longer for the devs to track down than would be economic for them to fix? (Sorry if it's a daft question, as I said in my previous post, I'm not a programmer).

 

Yes I think it would indeed be very helpful to report any such issues when encountered. However, remember that the terrain has recieved a substantial make-over(including addition of new modelled areas) in Black Shark, so a particular issue spotted in FC may already have been fixed by now :) .

 

Anway, I would say that when reporting bugs it is important to state the conditions under which it can be replicated and perhaps try to figure out what could be the cause - e.g. if a train crosses over a destroyed bridge then try with another bridge or altering the overall conditions of the missions a little......this can often help to exclude possible causes.

JJ

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