Real F/A-18 Pilot Tries DCS: F/A-18 - Part TWO

[Magic Zach]

The flight gear alone would be overwhelming to someone that's never sat in a jet.

 

But, for the sake of argument, let's say you managed or went without it. You managed to figure out how to put the ladder down and then magically found a way to put the ladder back up after you got in. Or the plane captain was out there and decided to help.

 

You strap yourself in (with no training) and go through all the procedures as you've learned from DCS. You turn the battery switch on and fire up the APU. You get an APU fire light.

 

You have the aircraft.

 

There is a reason we have boldface do EP Sims, NATOPS checks, etc. It's not because the jet is hard to fly - it's because the jet is hard to fly when things are going wrong. And not even considering the minor things that go wrong (BLINs, BIT fails, hyd leaks, etc.)

 

My airline has a distance learning software course for the 737 that you use before you show up to ground school on day one. It has cockpit mockups that you can click around to help familiarize yourself with the aircraft and then early on in training, you use touch screens.

 

Going from touch screens and an iPad screen to real switches was eye opening and slightly overwhelming. It is worlds apart when you're actually sitting in the cockpit and you have to physically find switches and interface with systems.

 

Is it impossible for someone from DCS with zero seat time to be able to start, taxi, takeoff, and land a Hornet without morting themselves? No. Do I think there's a better than average chance they'd never make it out of the chocks? Absolutely.

 

DCS is as real as it gets in today's market. But it's still not real.

Thank you for pitching in :D

I think this fantasy topic I started has exhausted itself. Has made for interesting talk though, as was the goal

Edited November 27, 2018 by Magic Zach

[Canada_Moose]

There was a point where he says that if someone was to learn the Hornet in the sim, and then go fly the real thing, "probably not".

Topic starter: Honestly, I disagree. Some of us might not know the proper technique to hold Gs, and even more of us don't have the physique. But to just fly the Hornet, I probably could. And mostly because of how easy it is to fly, thanks to fly by wire. I scarcely rely on controller buttons, so I remember where the basic controls are. The only basic ones that might trip me up are the nose wheel steering gain and the paddle, because I do have those mapped, and I normally can't see them. I believe that if I was in a for real F/A-18C Lot 20 Hornet (for a reason that does not even begin to exist), from the ground at least, I could successfully manage to start, taxi, take off, fly, and roughly land it (not on the boat) purely off of experience in DCS. But that's it. Anything else, and I am sure to screw up, possibly fatally.

FC3, I won't even know how to start the things. Mi-8, I'll die. P-51, I will likely crash. BF-109, I will die. Spitfire, I'm definitely lawn fertilizer in that one! F-5E, I might work it out, maybe. Big maybe. Big maybe on the Ka-50 as well.

I don't have the Mirage, but if I had to fly the real counterpart of a DCS module, the Hornet would offer the best chance of survival.

 

I can assure you that PC sim time does not equate to being able to fly the real thing. I went into lessons on a C152 and C172 and sure, I knew all the controls, I knew procedures and I knew comms. What the sim cannot do is prepare you for the actual physical aspect of flying. The force on the controls, outside influences. Honestly its not even close. It takes time to to get used to all this, time that only comes from hours in the cockpit. Then, when you go back to the sim, you find it hard because all of those senses that you have come to rely on for cues are no longer there. We can see this in the video done by mover.

Anyone who thinks that they could actually handle a hornet in the real world after DCS is really quite deluded. Yes, you would be familiar and would have a better chance than the average joe but that's about it.

[=Pedro=]

Considering what that nice fighter pilot said about hornet flight characteristics, will that be taken in to count in the further development o the hornet Line ?

[Banzaiib]

Everyone's different. My brother spent thousands of hours on MS Flight Sim going through the entire FAA flight instruction manual for years prior to stepping foot in a real aircraft. His sim time had a HUGE impact on his RL training.

 

Could one of us that has 1000+ hours in the hornet start up and take off in a REAL hornet? Yeah, maybe... if you fly DCS as if it was real, then probably, but most people fly in DCS like its air-quake. They take stupid risks and don't follow normal procedures... 1000 hours of doing it wrong means you'd fail in RL.

[Skwinty]

I think you are giving the SIM to much credit. I agree that the SIM would have helped getting instrument rated, but as for flying, he could have achieved that in 50 hours had he initially gone for flight training at the closest flight school.

[Magic Zach]

Considering what that nice fighter pilot said about hornet flight characteristics, will that be taken in to count in the further development o the hornet Line ?

+1 He said it was feeling too draggy. Might be the throttle setup though.

Would his input be considered for brushing up the FM more, possibly, or disregarded for the throttle setup?

[VirusAM]

The flight gear alone would be overwhelming to someone that's never sat in a jet.

 

 

 

But, for the sake of argument, let's say you managed or went without it. You managed to figure out how to put the ladder down and then magically found a way to put the ladder back up after you got in. Or the plane captain was out there and decided to help.

 

 

 

You strap yourself in (with no training) and go through all the procedures as you've learned from DCS. You turn the battery switch on and fire up the APU. You get an APU fire light.

 

 

 

You have the aircraft.

 

 

 

There is a reason we have boldface do EP Sims, NATOPS checks, etc. It's not because the jet is hard to fly - it's because the jet is hard to fly when things are going wrong. And not even considering the minor things that go wrong (BLINs, BIT fails, hyd leaks, etc.)

 

 

 

My airline has a distance learning software course for the 737 that you use before you show up to ground school on day one. It has cockpit mockups that you can click around to help familiarize yourself with the aircraft and then early on in training, you use touch screens.

 

 

 

Going from touch screens and an iPad screen to real switches was eye opening and slightly overwhelming. It is worlds apart when you're actually sitting in the cockpit and you have to physically find switches and interface with systems.

 

 

 

Is it impossible for someone from DCS with zero seat time to be able to start, taxi, takeoff, and land a Hornet without morting themselves? No. Do I think there's a better than average chance they'd never make it out of the chocks? Absolutely.

 

 

 

DCS is as real as it gets in today's market. But it's still not real.

 

 

 

Exactly what i think....my above post says something similar...

Mover i am really astonished by your channel i am literally eating every video..thanks for sharing awesome aviation shots and thanks again for your dcs trial.

[Gearbox]

I found the the track clip is actually not more precise. In fact it's worse. Turn your head too far to the side that the track-clip is mounted on and you've lost signal. Your face blocks it. Nevermind the extra wire that gets tangled up in your headset wires and the poorly engineered clip itself that breaks after 6 month of use. It's a gimmick and it's garbage IMO.

 

 

You have to mount the camera well off-center and this problem is resolved. The clip is still a flimsy POS, I'll give you that.

[BigDuke6ixx]

It's not that. It's the exaggerated motion of TrackIR that can be very disorienting until you get used to it. The lack of 1 to 1 *is* something your brain has to learn how to deal with because your head is pointed one way, but you're "looking" another way. It's not like in VR where you are getting a true one to one view of the world.

 

As Mover stated in the video, as a "fighter pilot you are always looking around" He even showed the real life version of it. That's what gets disorienting if you don't train your brain to use TIR.

 

Again, something you get naturally with VR but will never have with TiR because it's a different technology.

 

But let's not detract into VR is better than TIR is better than VR. I was just pointing out different techs.

 

He had trouble formatting with TIR which he wouldn't have had with VR. Hopefully he can have another go in VR.

[BigDuke6ixx]

You have to mount the camera well off-center and this problem is resolved. The clip is still a flimsy POS, I'll give you that.

 

I can vouch for the off centre solution. I covered the clip with hot glue to give it more strength.

[Svsmokey]

No problems here , i mount camera off-center as well .

[javelina1]

in the past when I used Trackir, I did the same (off center)

[Canada_Moose]

Everyone's different. My brother spent thousands of hours on MS Flight Sim going through the entire FAA flight instruction manual for years prior to stepping foot in a real aircraft. His sim time had a HUGE impact on his RL training.

 

Could one of us that has 1000+ hours in the hornet start up and take off in a REAL hornet? Yeah, maybe... if you fly DCS as if it was real, then probably, but most people fly in DCS like its air-quake. They take stupid risks and don't follow normal procedures... 1000 hours of doing it wrong means you'd fail in RL.

 

 

Of course it had an impact. It helps tremendously with knowing the controls and the procedures as I said earlier. The familiarity helps but it cannot teach you to fly. The physical senses and cues are just not there. Your brother became a better pilot faster because of the sim but it did not teach him to fly.

I was the same when I started real world flying. I figured it would be easy as I had many hours in sims. Heck, I figured I could be instrument rated in no time.

 

I will tell you this: The first time I went 'under the hood' for IFR training it felt completely different. My senses told me I was turning, I was completely disorientated even though from sim time I knew to concentrate on the instruments. After a few minutes I put the feelings aside and relied on the instruments but it was a scary few mins. Those are the kind of things you just do not get in the sim and you cannot recreate.

 

Now, you ask someone to jump into an F18 where everything happens WAY faster than in a C172 I can assure you no sim time on DCS will prevent a nasty mess happening. There is a reason many very experienced pilots don't check out on the F18 (or any fast jet for that matter). They are good pilots already.....just not good enough.

[javelina1]

well he managed to launch a Bug... (tongue in cheek gents)

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by javelina1

[=Pedro=]

:megalol:

[Svsmokey]

well he managed to launch a Bug... (tongue in cheek gents)

 

 

 

Think he was Airforce in 'Nam before becoming a cropduster ....BTW , one of the greatest movies of all time !

[nicka117]

Meh, some things are easier in the sim and some things are harder.

 

My dad has 1000's of hours and hundreds of carrier landings (flew the S2, A4, A3, A7 and F4) and he has goofed around with my sim quite a bit.

 

He says that tanking and formation flying (during the day and good weather) is way easier in real life than in DCS...mostly because of the lack of seat of the pants feel. When you can't feel the accelerations, it dumps you into PIO's real bad until you get your "sim" visual scan mastered.

 

But, in real life, you don't know what you don't know. For instance, interestingly, during my Dad's Westpac cruises in the late 70's they would often times tank A-3's off A-7's. The A-7 would do this weird thing to the A-3 when it got near the basket. because of airflow or jet wash off the A-7, the A-3 would yaw right exactly before the probe hit the basket. The trick was to just fly the probe like you were going to miss left and it would just snap into the basket at the last second.

 

So, my dad was teaching a FNG to tank off the A-7 and he refused to do it that way. He just decided to kick in some left rudder. Bad idea.....rolled the A-3 upside down....which the A-3 doesn't really like. He never heard the end of it. You just don't know what you don't know.

Edited November 27, 2018 by nicka117

[BigDuke6ixx]

Meh, some things are easier in the sim and some things are harder.

 

My dad has 1000's of hours and hundreds of carrier landings (flew the S2, A4, A3, A7 and F4) and he has goofed around with my sim quite a bit.

 

He says that tanking and formation flying (during the day and good weather) is way easier in real life than in DCS...

 

It's quite easy in DCS in VR.

[nicka117]

It's quite easy in DCS in VR.

 

yes, it is much easier with 1:1 scaling and depth perception. My dad thought the sim was "pretty neat" on a monitor and "super cool" in my rift.

 

...but, to a newcomer, real pilot or no, flying tight form and tanking, even in VR is not easy. You have to perfect your "sim visual scan". Obviously, the learning is much faster in VR.

[javelina1]

It's quite easy in DCS in VR.

 

 

Yes it is, but I still have a little grief with tanking on the Viking... ;)

[oldcrusty]

All this can I fly it talk reminds me of this...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-tale-of-when-a-marine-mechanic-stole-an-a-4-skyhawk-1745015819/amp

 

 

Oh yea... I remember that one very well!:pilotfly: - A morale boost for flight simmers and a nightmare for Socal traffic controllers and security folks... at least until the "cadet" was lined up on short final.

On second thought, there was not a lot of flight sims available in those days but the guy had access to the real A4 sim on many occasions before his first and last "solo" so...

[Canada_Moose]

Oh yea... I remember that one very well!:pilotfly: - A morale boost for flight simmers and a nightmare for Socal traffic controllers and security folks... at least until the "cadet" was lined up on short final.

On second thought, there was not a lot of flight sims available in those days but the guy had access to the real A4 sim on many occasions before his first and last "solo" so...

 

And he was already an accomplished glider pilot.

[BigDuke6ixx]

yes, it is much easier with 1:1 scaling and depth perception. My dad thought the sim was "pretty neat" on a monitor and "super cool" in my rift.

 

...but, to a newcomer, real pilot or no, flying tight form and tanking, even in VR is not easy. You have to perfect your "sim visual scan". Obviously, the learning is much faster in VR.

 

Yeah, minutes.

[Bananimal]

+1 He said it was feeling too draggy. Might be the throttle setup though.

Would his input be considered for brushing up the FM more, possibly, or disregarded for the throttle setup?

 

It's not my throttle setup. The Hornet is the only plane that behaves this way. I'm not the only one that has the issue either.

[nicka117]

Yeah, minutes.

 

Sure man, you bet.