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A/A Radar and JHMCS Feedback Welcome


Wags

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1. In VR, the text/font resolution is worse than the one used in the hud, I find far more difficult to read the information, could you use the same texture size/font as in the HUD?

2. For some reason, I am unable to lock targets using Aim-9 in the new version (and yes I am pressing uncage button).

P.S.I am using a Vive Pro


Edited by Icebeat
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I mean the radar still, in multiplayer likes to have a freak out and not decide if the target is flying at you, away from you, or is going orbital at escape velocity... Locks still frequently get stuck in these loops and fail, or don't and just spaz out until you manually drop it and try again.

 

The obviously WIP and placeholder IFF is also still incapable of of deciding if a target is friend or foe, flicking back and forth, sometimes rapidly other times after long delays, which always nice when the aim7 that is about 2 seconds down range, is suddenly heading at a friendly which was showing a constant steady foe diamond right up until 3nm at which point I'm better off reading his tail number and checking the scoreboard... and alot of missions do have planes on the both teams for balance reasons, just doing visual profile IFF isn't always an option.

 

Its a WIP and placeholder, that's fine ...ish, but this is a virtual world, you create the collection of pixels that we called a F18 and a SU27, why exactly are you unable to come up with a placeholder system that actually knows what its shooting at? The simple (you could call them placeholder) IFF for the FC3 aircraft don't get confused and flicker randomly within visual range... Nor does it mistaken that enemy frogfoot for UFO changing directions doing 100G spins

 

So much for the initial roadmap and promises of filling out the aircraft as an A2A platform before turning to more advanced modern features like the JHMCS, targeting pod and harm. I don't understand why people feel this shoddy, nearly unusable until this week radar is somehow acceptable and ready to be sidelined in favor of features that were only promised later on the development roadmaps... Why is barely functional somehow praise worthy and worth stringing up a "Mission accomplished" banner on the side of the tower on the Stennis and declaring its time to move onto the harm? Theres no TWS, we can't IFF people without sending off a flurry of "BUDDYSPIKE!?!?" on comms.

 

Every time a hornet arrives to the fight, its like the seagulls from finding nemo all of a sudden discovered some new words.

"RAYGUN!?"

"BUDDYSPIKE!"

"BUDDYSPIKE!"

"IS THAT FRIENDLY?"

"RAYGUN!?"

"BUDDYSPIKE?!"

"FRIENDLY 18!?"

"BUDDYSPIKE?"

"BUDDYSPIKE?!"

"DO WE HAVE FRIENDLY 18?"

"BUDDYSPI--- I'm dead, it was hostile"

"RAYGUN!!!"

"..."

"FOX 2"

"DAMN IT BLOODY IFF YOU TEAMKILLED ME"

"IT WAS DIAMOND I SWEAR"

Its getting a tad old...


Edited by GhostB
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(No sorry I don't know who that is)

 

Just to further build upon what I said earlier, as Trev mentions above, the lack of NCTR is painful, but I can live without it though... I mean the flanker doesn't have it, and the F15 essentially doesn't have it in 50% of cases these days because basically anything released after the huey doesn't actually have a NCTR profile, because apparently the F15, F5, F18, Mirage and Harrier exist in a separate timeline to the F15C, and therefore the F15 gets confused and is unable to identify any of its NATO allies aircraft or that of its own country and manufacturer... Nor did the designers ever manage to record a profile for the Mig-21, wouldn't ever be needed obviously.

 

But I digress. So I'm flying with my buddies, they are in f15s or mirages, and they call out 4 enemies coming towards us, they declare one is a slow moving helo, theres a 2 ship up high, and a lone fighter just below them... I'm meant to go after the lone guy, they'll handle the 2 ship and we'll ignore the helo for now...

 

Great, so now I'm trapped in a magicians act playing the fool in the classic cups and balls routine, because the I've 25% chance of picking out the correct one, I can't see their speed, altitude or even direction without locking one up, I can only lock one up at a time... But what choice do I have?... Oops, I locked the helo, well I'll just unlock him and select the next one... But wait, I've gotta wait for the radar to reset and redraw the page, and if they contacts were REMOTELY stacked, they'll all spawn in a different order from the last... So I'm basically picking in the blind again, hoping I've got the right one, the options being randomized each time I select a cup to check under.

 

This isn't effective... friend, foe, fast, slow, high, low... its all the same little block symbol... Its hopeless. Why the hell does this seem to be the lowest priority for ED? Pushing ahead with mavericks, JHMCS... Its running before you can walk...

 

Yes, it can technically detect an airplane... Yeah, you can select which contact to lock... I mean, yeah you'll find out speed and altitude when you lock it. Yes, it can technically identify if its a friend or a hostile, when it feels like it. Sure it'll guide an aim7 to that hostile, or if its having a bad day, that friendly. Yeah it can do all that.

 

But god forbid you want to do some combination of those things at once. Its not combat effective, its not nearly just "Oh its a just missing a little polish, we'll come back it after we add some new toys, it'll just be a tiny bit rough for now"... Its pretty much useless outside of firing up the editor, sticking down 2 mig29s in front of you, and kill them, and then resetting the mission, the second you start mixing friendlies into it, or even just start adding different targets with different threat levels to be prioritized, your screwed.

 

This isn't just "OH ITS EARLY ACCESS", so don't go there... Yeah, its early access if don't like it buy it, don't play it. Alright a couple things

A) This isn't the progression path that was talked about in the lead up to sales of the module

B) Alright I'll stop playing it (I have stopped) but would you mind convincing that other guy who is lighting up my RWR every 20 seconds because hes not sure if I'm a new contact?

Like it or not, if your playing multiplayer, weather you own this early access aircraft or not, if you play it personally or not... This "Early access" product is on release branch... its setting off alarms in my cockpit, team killing me or my teammates, and just generally disrupting the comms/gameplay... and if I go back to flying something like the F15... NCTR in my non-early access product... Target type? Unk...

 

One moment while I pull out my 20 point checklist and put on my best Sherlock impersonation, and go through the increasing long list of possibilities, of what it could be based off what RWR contacts I have... Its speed... Its altitude... Known likely targets to be in the area... With the addition of the 18 and soon to be the F14... This list is getting so long its basically getting impossible guess with too much accuracy... this wasn't so bad when answer, 90% of the time was its a bloody Mirage, but its getting stupid these days, back then the excuse was its "Its a 3rd party module, it must be razbam's fault". Both of these are ED products... Support your existing products atleast ffs.

 

This can't problem can't be ED Forum flamed away with comments about it being EA, or it being an open beta thing... This plane is on release branch... You basically cannot avoid it on the main big MP servers... Stop declaring the radar done, patting ED on the back and then bleating HHARRM HAARAAM HAAARRRAM

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  • ED Team
I mean the radar still, in multiplayer likes to have a freak out and not decide if the target is flying at you, away from you, or is going orbital at escape velocity... Locks still frequently get stuck in these loops and fail, or don't and just spaz out until you manually drop it and try again.

 

And if that is showing up more on multiplayer we need good tracks and info to replicate when you see it. There are a number of other factors when you are talking MP, lag being a huge effect, it affects missile impact vs position when comparing user and server, it could very well be affecting radar as well.

 

So if its MP related, create a bug thread, and submit any and all tracks you have, shorter the better of course, but I know that's tough in MP. We can't have too many tracks. Also include other things that you might have, such quality of the connection, etc.

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At the moment the radar does not show the heading of a locked target, which makes determining the BR (bandit reciprocal) difficult. Will this feature be incorporated at a later date?

(Thanks for an amazing module by the way!)

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  • ED Team
Like I said earlier you don't need tracks. All you simply need to do is log onto Twitch on any given night and the evidence is laid bare for all to see.

 

Oh and the quality of the connection has absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

We need tracks as we use them to isolate the issues, we have methods that use tracks themselves, we are not going to run around twitch trying to find evidence. We need tracks.

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Make it easier to upload tracks, then. The file size limit is unrealistic. Why we should have to do the dropbox shuffle is beyond me.

 

 

If it happens so much and so easy, you should have no problem making a short track of the issue.

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A/A Radar and JHMCS Feedback Welcome

 

I hope that’s not the official view of ED. Just think about what you just said. You want tracks to solve the issues, then you shutdown the idea of making the process of submitting tracks easier.

 

Trev is right. There has been many instances I wanted to submit tracks and do what ED asks, but I don’t. Why? Because the majority of my tracks are beyond the file size limit. The process ED is using is barely scratching the surface.

 

 

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They’re not short. These are 47+mb track files from hours-long multiplayer sessions. It can take that long to find a fault. Are you looking at the stuff we’ve all been posting ?

 

Yes this is beta and we’re happy to participate but this is not our full time job.

 

I'm surprised that NineLine doesn't actually fly the F18 privately and missed this problem.

 

Nevertheless, the point of having a track is not only to prove that the bug is real, but also to study how it occurs, under which circumstances. Maybe they do a debit session with it... I guess.

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  • ED Team
I'm surprised that NineLine doesn't actually fly the F18 privately and missed this problem.

 

Nevertheless, the point of having a track is not only to prove that the bug is real, but also to study how it occurs, under which circumstances. Maybe they do a debit session with it... I guess.

 

I do fly it privately, I have not seen the issue (hence the reason for asking for the track). There are many ways to share files beyond the forums, most emails have a small amount of free space, or finding file sharing is quite easy these days. If you want to share tracks it's easy to figure out.

 

We have debug version of DCS that we can run tracks through, but even just watching the track and seeing exactly want is going on is good, also stating that connection isn't an issue, please let us decide, give us all the information possible, and we can better find solutions. Believe it or not, recreating these systems, many times with very little data to go on is quite a complex task, as well, users action with these systems can be unexpected at times, so tracks server many purposes that videos won't display.

 

 

Yes this is beta and we’re happy to participate but this is not our full time job.

 

We are only asking people to take part that have time to help out, purely volunteer, and 100% appreciated, we do require the same things that we are selves submit for reports. If you don't have time for it, then that is fine as well, there is no requirement to report issues, but it's either yes or no, halfway doesn't help.

 

And I understand how big MP tracks are, what I am saying is, if you experience something, then remember exactly what you are doing and try and reproduce in a smaller track, I am sure you know you could restart your session and create a new track. Sure its time consuming, and not expected, but its what we require for bug reporting, and again, exactly what all internal testers are required to do for a bug as well.

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I made a bug report about the radar not functioning in HACQ and LHAQ while looking at the hud and posted a track. It literally took me less than 5 minutes.

 

I've made lots of reports and tracks - making them in single player is really easy. Multiplayer is a lot harder - you normally have to start from the ground, cold and dark, you can't always reproduce the exact same circumstances every time, and sometimes the track is ruined either by the server you're on (like DDCS, where none of the tracks can be replayed by ED for some reason) or by things like weather. Not to mention that what you've seen, even if you try to reproduce it as quickly as possible happens nearly 30-45 minutes into a now 50-100mb track file that you've got to find some way of getting uploaded so they can have a look and pinpoint exactly when it happens- only for it to be worthless because of the reasons I've mentioned. Honestly, it's not easy to report issues in MP.

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  • ED Team

 

It's NOT MP related. It's that the incompleteness rears it's ugly head when the aircraft is used in multiplayer, a modality where every part of the system is used in every way a pilot can. You don't see that in your static little predictable test scenarios.

 

NineLine maybe you should log in one night and see what's up. Then maybe you would understand.

 

You keep editing your post so I missing all these new points you are making.

 

SO you say it's not MP, but then the problem "rears its ugly head" in MP, and I should log in to MP to see what's going on.

 

So if it's not related to MP, then it should be easy for you to reproduce in single player and submit a small track.

 

I log into MP, I don't do it under the name NineLine for obvious reason, but assuming I don't play, or test in multiplayer is just a poor assumption.

 

And as for the part about incompleteness, this is the reason for the thread, the reason for early access, and the reason for the request of users to spare some time and report issues if they can. Again, no one is expected to, but if you want to help, we do request you supply the needed info, if you can't, then no problem either, no none is required to test and report issues, but we sure appreciate those that do.

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Nineline, care to comment on the relative back burner the radar has seemingly be put on?

There has not been a single addition to it except the "IFF" since release, unless you count "We finally made it work, mostly, sometimes" as a feature.

 

I know that's a bit hyperbolic and I don't except you'd actually admit it if it had been but things have been pretty full speed ahead on things like JHMCS which was said to be coming much much later into the cycle, seem to be jumping the queue over base-level functionality for the primary A2A system.

 

It'd be nice to know if we were going to see some improvements and new features to it before wag's video in two weeks showing off the early targeting pod, because at this point I'm getting increasingly convinced I'm going to be dropping JDAMs or being TWS locked by a F14 before I'm TWS locking a bandit myself in the F18.

 

The release of news on the radar apart from "We're going to fix it... this time... we swear!" has been lacking for months.

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Nineline, care to comment on the relative back burner the radar has seemingly be put on?

There has not been a single addition to it except the "IFF" since release, unless you count "We finally made it work, mostly, sometimes" as a feature.

 

I know that's a bit hyperbolic and I don't except you'd actually admit it if it had been but things have been pretty full speed ahead on things like JHMCS which was said to be coming much much later into the cycle, seem to be jumping the queue over base-level functionality for the primary A2A system.

 

It'd be nice to know if we were going to see some improvements and new features to it before wag's video in two weeks showing off the early targeting pod, because at this point I'm getting increasingly convinced I'm going to be dropping JDAMs or being TWS locked by a F14 before I'm TWS locking a bandit myself in the F18.

 

The release of news on the radar apart from "We're going to fix it... this time... we swear!" has been lacking for months.

 

What are you talking about? They've been been improving the radar constantly. Remember when the radar lost lock if you even considered doing any manouvering? The useless acm modes?(especially vertical scan). Almost every patch has included tweaks (and bugs) to the radar. They are modeling the radar on a completely different level than we've seen before and it's impossible for me and you to know how much coding is required. But it's obvious that they are working on it.

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should you even be able to use NVGs with JHMCS? I thought you get one or the other not both.

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18358/new-digital-eyepiece-will-allow-u-s-fighter-pilots-to-own-the-night-like-never-before

 

Quote:

 

"While some HMDs have night vision capabilities built in, JHMCS which the DoD is heavily invested in, does not. What this has meant operationally is that once night falls, pilots forgo night vision or they swap out their JHMCS visor and all its features for a pair of night vision goggles (NVGs). In other words, either the pilot can have the HMD or NVGs, not both at one time."


Edited by Deano87

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It's WIP and will be done properly in future updates.

 

I figured as much... I was more talking about how it is IRL :thumbup:

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Nineline, care to comment on the relative back burner the radar has seemingly be put on?

There has not been a single addition to it except the "IFF" since release, unless you count "We finally made it work, mostly, sometimes" as a feature.

 

I know that's a bit hyperbolic and I don't except you'd actually admit it if it had been but things have been pretty full speed ahead on things like JHMCS which was said to be coming much much later into the cycle, seem to be jumping the queue over base-level functionality for the primary A2A system.

 

It'd be nice to know if we were going to see some improvements and new features to it before wag's video in two weeks showing off the early targeting pod, because at this point I'm getting increasingly convinced I'm going to be dropping JDAMs or being TWS locked by a F14 before I'm TWS locking a bandit myself in the F18.

 

The release of news on the radar apart from "We're going to fix it... this time... we swear!" has been lacking for months.

I got the impression that the focus would be AG before the EA started. Personally i was a little surprised with the AIM9x and 120 focus. And after the poll result it's no surprise to me that they focus on more AG stuff:

1. ATFLIR

2. HARM

3. AG Radar

4. AA Radar

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