New Fulcrum PFM is very susceptible to PIO and excessive bounce.

[Snappy]

Hello,

 

 

two points in addition to the above posts:

 

Be aware of slat behavior, deploy at,roughly 10 degrees AoA but stay on until 7 degrees. Keep approach speed over the fence 300kpm and no less than 250kmh at touchdown

 

"and "

 

The pitch thing is related to the leading edge flaps....the moment they deploy the nose pitches up suddenly.

 

Whether that signifies cause and effect I don't know - but watching real-life in-cockpit Mig-29 footage (the rear facing videos where you can see the LEFs deploy during maneuvering) I haven't yet seen anything like the behaviour of our 29.

.

 

 

 

Well the LEF should be out anyway as long as the trailing edge flaps and / or the gear is lowered. So there should be no sudden surprises from that end.

 

Second point is even when the LEF extend or retract during maneuvering flight (with the gear and flaps up) due to AOA , the pitch damper, or more precise the longtitudinal stability control adjusts the tailerons to counteract pitch movements due the LEF movement.

So even there, this should not interfere or cause oscillations in pitch.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Snappy

Edited November 1, 2018 by Snappy
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[Lixma 06]

Good info, thanks - it seems our 29 has a dicky damper.

[Snappy]

You're welcome,

 

 

yes I agree, the pitch damper is certainly sub par.There really seem to be too much tendency for oscillations in pitch my opinion as well.

Hopefully this can be at least slightly improved.

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

[Pasquale1986]

You're welcome,

 

 

yes I agree, the pitch damper is certainly sub par.There really seem to be too much tendency for oscillations in pitch my opinion as well.

Hopefully this can be at least slightly improved.

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

 

Question is, how much the oscillations are caused by our controller setup. I use the virpil mongoose t-50 with 17,5cm extension and don’t experience strange oscillating movements even without curvature set on the y-axis.

 

With my TM Warthog grip without extensions on the other hand…she’s a little touchy to say at least.

 

Controller setup plays a huge role here

[Snappy]

Well,

 

of course controller setup influences this too.However since probably the vast majority of users flies with some sort of „desktop“-flightstick and is not using any extension which emulates real world stick travel distances it would be preferable to gear the flight control response towards the shorter desktop length sticks.

 

 

Just my personal opinion anyway.

 

 

I already played with the axis tuning but so far had only limited success.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Snappy

Edited November 2, 2018 by Snappy

[DmitriKozlowsky]

So deploying flaps for landing turns off pitch damping. How does that makes any kind of sense?

[mvsgas]

I just saw this video, in it they show a Mig-29 simulator and pilot says that the aircraft if very sensitive even with damper on

8bIDGqhxVPM?start=574

[Snappy]

I just saw this video, in it they show a Mig-29 simulator and pilot says that the aircraft if very sensitive even with damper on

8bIDGqhxVPM?start=574

 

 

 

Well,

 

 

For one, this is a different model of the mig-29 as you can easily see from the more modern glass cockpit.Likely an M-Model/Project 9.15 variant.These feature an FBW system which is another matter entirely.

Secondly I‘ve also watched a few other episodes of that „combat approved“ series and am not to keen on the english translation as it is often exaggerated or simplicistic in regard to technical points.

 

 

I think the Pilot/ Engineer meant to say, that the plane needs to be flown with carefulinput(like most aircraft), especially in the context of air to air refueling.

 

 

For another take on the MIG-29 flight handling (Mig29G Model) I recommend

this interview with a West German exchange pilot that was among the first who flew the former east german Mig29 .

From 25:00 on he talks about the flight controls and especially from 26:00 about how large inputs are required to get the aircraft really into maneuvering:

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

 

Snappy

Edited November 2, 2018 by Snappy
Youtube embedding

[flavnet]

New Fulcrum A PFM is very susceptible to PIO and excessive bounce on landing.

 

I completely agree.

I opened a thread in FC3 - MIG29 page of this forum about the difficulties of the FM with respect to the simulation. Who was kind enough to answer me, wrote that I would need more practice. Surely I can train a lot and MAYBE I get the desired results, but why I have to adapt to FM so unnatural?! At any speed and at any AOA, at landing the plane bounces catastrophically!! The management of the throttle is "science fiction": at 80% the plane continues to accelerate !!! So many people claim everything is ok. I think they see a miracle every time they land without destroying the plane.:lol:

Edited November 3, 2018 by flavnet

[rrohde]

I completely agree.

I opened a thread in FC3 - MIG29 page of this forum about the difficulties of the FM with respect to the simulation. Who was kind enough to answer me, wrote that I would need more practice. Surely I can train a lot and MAYBE I get the desired results, but why I have to adapt to FM so unnatural?! At any speed and at any AOA, at landing the plane bounces catastrophically!! The management of the throttle is "science fiction": at 80% the plane continues to accelerate !!! So many people claim everything is ok. I think they see a miracle every time they land without destroying the plane.:lol:

 

So maybe the S(Simple)FM was better for you? Maybe there's a way to restore that so the FM is more to your liking? :thumbup:

[Mars Exulte]

@snappy

I doubt there's a way to 'gear' control response to somebody's stick. Moving the control 15' is 15' on both a desktop or extension, it's only different on the users end in a way that makes it easier to perform small adjustments by virtue of leverage. The ingame curvature settings ARE how you adjust for unit differences.

 

@dmitry

I don't get why you're complaining about having a different pitch curve on that plane. I've ALWAYS adjusted planes individually. You kinda have to if you want them to fly half way right.

 

@flavnet

I'll trust ED and their team over forum armchair engineers talking about their opinions and feels

Edited November 3, 2018 by zhukov032186

[AeriaGloria]

Flavnet, there’s no rules about what percentages planes can’t accelerate at. There’s a reason the RD-33 are called powerful. Also I suggest you study the video on the long MiG-29 FM thread where a Fulcrum pilot testing for ED lands it, you can see the AOA and speed the whole time, he stays 300 over the fence touches down no lower than 260 and the AOA doesnt go beyond 11. Be patient and learn the quirks of the plane, that’s what flying is about:)

[Lixma 06]

I do love the way the 29 rears up during take-off.

[impeller83]

I do love the way the 29 rears up during take-off.

Yeah, kinda feels like a massive acceleration right. And all the black exhaust dirt she leaves behind. Love this aircraft now.

 

Have landed/take off now for several times, haven't popped a wheel once. She is a lot more to handle now, love it

 

Skickat från min SM-G965F via Tapatalk

[AeriaGloria]

I was dedicated flanker driver my entire simming career. But now I’m doing the MiG-29S campaign missions and campaign over and over again, the raw powerful feeling, the smaller margin of safety at,low altitude, the care and attention to trimming and the much more pronounced than flanker FCS changes in pitch response through speed and altitude.

 

Unlike the flanker I have not gotten the wings to rip. I turn off dampener(light off), hold down stick limiter, full stick at above 500kmh IAS but I think it’s just too stable to pull enough AOA to rip the wings off.

 

Wing flex is beautiful!

[Eviscerador]

I'm enjoying the plane so much. The only things that kills me is the lack of fuel paired with the thirsty engines.

 

The speed and agility is superb though. I never found a problem either taking off or landing. I have busted more tyres on the Su 25T or the Eagle than in the new Fulcrum.

[pepin1234]

I completely agree.

 

but why I have to adapt to FM so unnatural?! At any speed and at any AOA, at landing the plane bounces catastrophically!! The management of the throttle is "science fiction": at 80% the plane continues to accelerate !!! So many people claim everything is ok. I think they see a miracle every time they land without destroying the plane.:lol:

 

As many I try to get landing well done, as many I do wrong. Very hard to drive on landing and the rolling have very slow response while the pitch is extremely sensitive to the minimum joystick movement at low speed.

 

It is something that go to the contrary of the real life, while Mig-21 and Mig-23 have higher speed on landing in our Mig-29 PFM if you get a little bit faster than 300kph you get really bad response with lot of joystick sensitive and bouncing like 10m high. I am not happy with this PFM.

 

Honestly in a constructive way I think need to be little bit tuned

[grafspee]

mig-21 and -23 is completly difrent world. yes in mig-29 you have to keep your speed very precise. for me mig-29 land and t/o like a charm btw watch for tail strike during take off dont let it roll too soon

[pepin1234]

 

Look the constantly correction the pilot do. If I do the same the nose of the Mig get crazy uncontrollable nose up and down, banking at low speed. I remember my last dogfight with this PFM all become me into a Rodeo riding the bull and shoot down. I have a Hotas Warthog. I was thinking ED ask for what kind of joystick we have to close the most populares Joystick curves by default in every PFM made by them.

[cro_mig_21]

Look the constantly correction the pilot do. If I do the same the nose of the Mig get crazy uncontrollable nose up and down, banking at low speed. I remember my last dogfight with this PFM all become me into a Rodeo riding the bull and shoot down. I have a Hotas Warthog. I was thinking ED ask for what kind of joystick we have to close the most populares Joystick curves by default in every PFM made by them.

It`s all about the curves and deadzones...I have an 28cm extension on my TM warthog stick and quite large deadzone (6 I think) and curve (somewhere around 25) for the pitch axis.

With that kind of setup I can perform precise pitch axis movements as well as yanking the stick just like in the video...large movements for small inputs. I have set up curves and deadzones for all my modules so that they feel "just right".

[cro_mig_21]

 

Look the constantly correction the pilot do. If I do the same the nose of the Mig get crazy uncontrollable nose up and down, banking at low speed. I remember my last dogfight with this PFM all become me into a Rodeo riding the bull and shoot down. I have a Hotas Warthog. I was thinking ED ask for what kind of joystick we have to close the most populares Joystick curves by default in every PFM made by them.

It`s all about the curves and deadzones...I have an 28cm extension on my TM warthog stick and quite large deadzone (6 I think) and curve (somewhere around 25) for the pitch axis.

With that kind of setup I can perform precise pitch axis movements as well as yanking the stick just like in the video...large movements for small inputs. I have set up curves and deadzones for all my modules so that they feel "just right".

[yufighter]

It's very interesting to look at the logbook. Due to the excessive sensitivity of the new PFM, the number of registered landings has been increased several times. Check it out!

[Mars Exulte]

It's very interesting to look at the logbook. Due to the excessive sensitivity of the new PFM, the number of registered landings has been increased several times. Check it out!

 

Lol I never thought about that, but yeah if you come fully off the ground and touch down again it will probably count it separately... but then, non-fatal crashes are counted as landings, too =)

 

If the plane touched the ground and you didn't die, it's a succesful landing, don't worry about those pesky details ;)

[Ironhand]

 

Look the constantly correction the pilot do. If I do the same the nose of the Mig get crazy uncontrollable nose up and down, banking at low speed. I remember my last dogfight with this PFM all become me into a Rodeo riding the bull and shoot down. I have a Hotas Warthog. I was thinking ED ask for what kind of joystick we have to close the most populares Joystick curves by default in every PFM made by them.

 

Doesn't look all that different. But you're right, there is a bit more nose bouncing, though he's getting some too:

 

[Mars Exulte]

Tbh, I was watching a MiG-29 taxi in a video earlier today and when hitting the brakes the nose would surge up and down noticeably. He wasn't going particularly fast, either. Whether like it or not, personally I think it's pretty close.

 

Remember ''I don't like this'' and ''this isn't correct'' are not synonymous. The other difference is that most the people.flying this fairly touchy aircraft are not professional MiG-29 pilots. Regardless of its characteristics, it's not surprising the RL pilots are smoother ;) Smoother means less bouncy bouncy, too.